Ressurection (For all Undead)

[Airandius]

In Dungeon Keeper 1 the Vampire is able to resurrect itself. Skeletons and ghosts however can not and they are a whole lot weaker then vampires. (Yes they are easier to get and in higher numbers but skeletons and ghosts die really fast.)

In my opinion all undead creatures should be able to be resurrected. But simply cutting away one level and insta-spawn back in the lair seems to be overpowered.
Especially for the Vampire because in DK1 it's one of the strongest creatures.

War for the Overlord is a new game and thus new mechanics can be introduced and old mechanics can be improved. (Too often do I see idea's getting bashed because people can't let go of their nostalgic feelings.)

Instead of having a slain undead resurrect instantly at their lair, imps need to bring them to a graveyard. Once at the graveyard they will be resurrected after a few seconds but they will be weaker.
In my opinion they should lose more then just one level, losing two levels or even three is a more appropriate penalty for letting your creature die.
Most creatures don't suffer much when they lose one level anyway as it's easily gained back.

This way having your undead army resurrected takes more time and effort and will give you a more appropriate penalty for letting your creatures die.

This also gives the Graveyard an extra role to fill in other then spawning Vampires.

[Mothrayas]

Applying this to all undead is impossible because the Archlich already has another way to resurrect. Making all undead able to resurrect the exact same way is boring. (How do Imps carry Ghost corpses to a graveyard to resurrect anyway?)

I think Skeletons and Ghosts may be able to resurrect, but not in the same way as the Vampire.

[Duke Ragereaver]

I'm not sure how Ghosts would be able to ressurect but maybe Skeletons should have a low chance to (litterly) pull themselves together?

[Metal Gear Rex]

In Dungeon Keeper 1 the Vampire is able to resurrect itself. Skeletons and ghosts however can not and they are a whole lot weaker then vampires. (Yes they are easier to get and in higher numbers but skeletons and ghosts die really fast.)

In my opinion all undead creatures should be able to be resurrected. But simply cutting away one level and insta-spawn back in the lair seems to be overpowered.
Especially for the Vampire because in DK1 it's one of the strongest creatures.

The Vampire is one of the strongest creatures BECAUSE he can resurrect. But really, he's not really that strong. It is just that he's harder to kill. He only has 2 offensive Spells, one is Drain, and the other is Word of Power but they're both obtained only at very high levels. Word of Power isn't something that will be used often either. The Vampire is supposed to be kinda like the Witch, in which they are hard to kill enemies except if you find their weakness (The weakness to the former would be high damaging/fast support units, the latter is weak to heavy units)

The Skeleton and Ghost are different units entirely. They're built around the idea of not being able to resurrect. Giving them that ability will throw away the great usefulness that the Vampire has. Not only that, but it would force each creature to undergo tweaks and lose their own uniqueness points.

The Skeleton is capable to train fast, so he'll reach a high level very quickly. He's already pretty powerful being able to spam Lightning in large numbers. His one weakness was that he was easy to kill, but the greatest strength was he was easy to be replaced since you only need one humanoid, and he trains very quickly. Giving him resurrection would make Skeletons too difficult to kill. A three-level drop wouldn't be fair because Skeletons would train right back up to Level 10.

Ghosts are questionable. I don't neccessairly like the idea of them resurrecting, but it is at least sounds a bit better since they train very slowly. They won't be able to get levels back that they've lost, and they deal about as much damage as Vampires. Though it is still questionable because they do have Rebound, so they're not weak to most support creatures like Vampires.

War for the Overlord is a new game and thus new mechanics can be introduced and old mechanics can be improved. (Too often do I see idea's getting bashed because people can't let go of their nostalgic feelings.)

Ever heard of "Bad idea is bad"?

Instead of having a slain undead resurrect instantly at their lair, imps need to bring them to a graveyard. Once at the graveyard they will be resurrected after a few seconds but they will be weaker.
In my opinion they should lose more then just one level, losing two levels or even three is a more appropriate penalty for letting your creature die.
Most creatures don't suffer much when they lose one level anyway as it's easily gained back.

Basically, this is strengthening Skeletons even more, as well as Ghosts, but this would also nerf the Vampire quite a lot. Like I said earlier, he is only strong because he resurrects. But he has weaknesses just like any other creature. Nerfing his resurrection ability will strike away a good part of his usefulness. This is also only making Skeletons and Ghosts even stronger. They're notably powerful as it is when it comes to large numbers.

2 Vampires or 20 Skeletons? The 20 Skeletons will train very fast so they'll be level 10 long before the Vampires. And with resurrecting nerf, the Vampires don't really stand a chance. Vampires take much longer to level up, so if they die, it is hard to train them back up. This only means we'll have to tweak these creatures to balance out these changes in the future, they'll end up being more and more similar to each other. Yay, less uniqueness!

This way having your undead army resurrected takes more time and effort and will give you a more appropriate penalty for letting your creatures die.

This also gives the Graveyard an extra role to fill in other then spawning Vampires.

More like a way to nerf the Vampire and strengthen the Skeleton and Ghost.

[Airandius]

Well like I said before: 'Can't let go of the older dungeon keepers.'

Skeletons and such don't have to train fast and have lighting at the end, we don't have to have the exact same skill sets or skills for that matter. There were differences between DK1 and DK2 as well you know.

[Mothrayas]

That it's a new game doesn't mean units won't end up functionally similar. Similarly to how Bile Demons are still going to be slow as f*** big bruisers and Trolls will be the best in the Workshop, Skeletons would still be the glass cannons they were - dieing easily, but packing a big punch.

[Metal Gear Rex]

Well like I said before: 'Can't let go of the older dungeon keepers.'

I like how you ignored all the points I made and continue to try and imply that "I don't like your suggestion cause it changes my nostalgia", no matter how wrong you are. You're just trying to put up a weak shield for yourself to prevent your idea from getting bashed. You're not helping your suggestion by ignoring my arguements.

Skeletons and such don't have to train fast and have lighting at the end, we don't have to have the exact same skill sets or skills for that matter. There were differences between DK1 and DK2 as well you know.

Mothrayas replied to that comment pretty well. There isn't much for me to add there.

[Jack]

Anyway we are doing this game mostly for people who enjoyed the first two episodes, we aren't aiming to new players.

Anyway, if I were a ghost or a skeleton and fight against a Monk, I would surely die (again). No way I can resurrect.

Anyway the idea is not that bad, but I think it's a surplus we don't need. You can balance your army with other creatures, no need to have an army of undying undead. Just imo though...

[Airandius]

I loved one of the custom campaigns that had skeletons as a resurrectable creature. Wasn't that overpowered, even with 40 or so of them. Especially when fighting level 7-10 wizards they got killed really fast.
That's why I thought of it. =]

[Dizzi]

We could have Skeletons and Ghosts to resurrect. We could even have all units do that but, only if things change. Skeletons and Ghosts are fit for their purpose in the game at the moment. They don't resurrect because they are expendable (simply put).

Something for Rex…
Change does not necessarily assure progress, but progress implacably requires change

And clearly…
If you want to make enemies, try to change something. (Because Metal Gear Rex is reading your thread!)

Don't say an idea is bad or good because this is only seen through ones point of view. This game isn’t made to please you. You need to think more mechanically. Then try to fit all the pieces together to make a functional game.

Keep the personal stuff out of suggestions and respect people's ideas/input and especially them as human beings. Airandius shouldn’t be commenting about your nostalgia with Dungeon Keeper that we all have observed. I understand why he needs to mention it, though.

So, keep all this crap out of the forum because you are making it an unfriendly place to be. I will be leaving if it continues because I could have been doing better things than writing a post I never wanted to write.

You need to be more courteous and considerate. I would very much like you learn to respect yourself first. Then, apply the same respect that you give to yourself to others. You can get examples from other people’s posts all over forum. You’re letting us down. But most importantly, you’re letting yourself down.