Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 28

Thread: Sandbox for DK1 Level

  
  1. June 10th, 2011, 04:42 #1
    Zyraen
    Zyraen is offline
    Troll
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    256

    Default Sandbox for DK1 Level

    Here's an idea for a "Sandbox" style level for DK1.

    Basically you start with 4 gem faces and a portal and can build everything. You can generally attract any Creature you like, except the usual - Ghosts, Skeletons, Vampires, Horned Reapers - you get them through applying your rooms.

    There is 1 Hero Keep and 2 Keepers. Within the Hero Keep is the Avatar who you need to defeat / kill to win. Both Keepers do not have Bridge nor Scavenger Room, so you can effectively ignore them.

    The map is separated into 5 portions, all separated by Lava

    1) Your Area - The Biggest South portion stretches an area of about 30-40% of the map, and is basically your turf to build as you please. At the 2 far ends are 2 Hero Gates, ie Southwest / Southeast. Your Gems are closer to the Southeast Hero Gate.

    2) Enemy Keepers - The East and West sides, stretching to the Northeast and Northwest, are occupied by Enemy Keepers. They each have 2 gem sides to mine for sustenance. Both Keepers cannot build Bridge nor Scavenger Room, and need not be killed to win the game.

    3) Hero Keep - on the "opposite" North side of the map. Basically 1 small room for the Avatar and his bodyguard, 2 large rooms on both sides for the defensive parties, each room having an Increase Level. These 3 rooms are all locked, and there is another "external" room with a functional Hero Gate and Gems and some shooting areas.

    4) Central - A very large block of dirt (probably about 10%-15% of the map area), with two Gem sides in the middle. Its basically North of your Turf, between you and the Hero Keep, and also between the 2 Keepers. Basically, a central staging ground.

    Apart from your own section, all the other 4 sections have 2 gem faces. This is just meant as a reward if you choose to "hold" the area, which isn't difficult. You won't need these Gem faces anyway, since at 4 Gem Faces you won't run out of gold.

    None of the Keepers nor the Heroes are allied. Being the sole builder of Bridges, you will be able to "direct" the fight in any way you please. This includes letting the Keepers fight each other, or bringing on a Hero Invasion upon the 2 Keepers and observing how they fare. In fact that is the purpose of the "Central" Block, to "encourage" competition.

    To compensate for the inability to add Heroes / Creatures dynamically to your Sandbox level like in DK2, the following rooms serve as "settings" for the Hero spawns, but only at large room sizes :
    - Barracks : determines the level of the Hero Spawns. the larger, the stronger the heroes.
    - Temple : determines the frequency of Hero Spawns. the larger, the more frequent spawns will occur. Note that it defaults at Nothing, meaning the Heroes will Never Spawn to Attack you
    - Torture Chamber : determines the spawning of Heroes with Tunnelers from the side gates on the same Southern area as you. The settings are Southwest (easier) or Southeast (harder) or Both Gates. Note that with Lava Traps its not difficult to block them off. Note the spawns are synchronised with the other spawns and follow the same timer as set by the Temple.
    - Graveyard : determines the composition of the Spawns. It defaults to 5 man party that has more Melee and weaker Unit types, increases to a 6 man mid-difficulty party, finally a 7 man tougher Melee-Ranged blend. Generally, the larger the Graveyard setting the harder.

    The first Room Settings generally only kick in at 26 tiles, followed by 30, then 35. In other words, you build a 5x5+1 block to change the first setting, then expand it by one row of 5 to change to the next setting. Of course any shape works, this is just for reference.

    I chose the above room assuming that no one would Need to build them up to that kind of size to make use of the Rooms. Alternatively, would using less useful traps/doors like Alarm Trap, Poison Gas Trap, Wooden and Braced doors to adjust the settings be better?

    The Hero's Total Creatures are generally capped at 100, separate from the 256 Creature Cap.
    Note that even if there are no Hero spawns, ie your Temple is small, the Graveyard and Barracks settings will also affect the difficulty of your final fights. Not bothering to build up both rooms will make the final fight a general walk-over except for the Avatar himself.
    Alternatively, you can build up all the rooms and kill 1000s of Heroes and convert as many as you like until the game stops producing more Creatures. You can also adjust it so that you keep capturing and converting powerful Hero units (and killing the rest, probably), so you can turn your whole army into nothing but Knights and Samurais if you so please.

    Any general comments are welcome regards the interest and usability of such "Sandbox" settings? What would be the Portal Limit for the Keepers (yourself and your opponents) that would make it interesting? I was thinking of 40 35 35 for a start, or if the Player is at a disadvantage, 30,35,35

    PS : for those wondering, I've started building the map in Adikted already. The script is still something I'm mulling over, hence this thread. Of course if there's no Sandbox DK1 market, then I'll just fit it as a Single Player map and drop the Sandbox Script.
    This would merely mean more gold and no gems in the Player1 Turf, 4 gem faces in Enemy Keeper's area, removing some Lava for a landbridge to the centre, which would contain 2 gem faces (ie for you to hold). Plus the standard Room / Spell / Trap etc changes to make it challenging.

    Update
    This is what I've got so far. I don't think I'll change the layout from here, think it fits, but of course subject to User's feedback. Will be populating it and testing out the Scripts.
    Attachment 788

    Update
    The Map Script Content. Most of the comments inside are pretty straightforward.
    It tentatively uses exactly 48/48 IFs. Sorry about the Lack of Indentation, if you want the actual TXT file I can send it to you.
    Meantime, I will be Testing it before release

    Spoiler

    Last edited by Zyraen; June 11th, 2011 at 03:57.
    Dungeon Keeper 1 / Deeper Dungeons Fan
    No intention to play DK2

    I'm Chinese, so please try and spell better than me...
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  2. June 10th, 2011, 10:22 #2
    diggory
    diggory is offline
    Imp diggory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    7
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: diggory2607

    Default Re: Sandbox for DK1 Level

    This sounds like a great idea. Would the enemy keepers be completely seperate from you? IE there is lava/impen rock between your building sections?

    The idea of controlling hero invasion via rooms sounds like a resonable idea seeing as there is no in built way to trigger invasions. What other things can be used as triggers though? Proximity to the portal or claiming certain parts? Just wondered if there were proximity triggers in the sense that the closer you dig to the hero portals, the harder the stuff they spawn is?

    I think the standard room/creature set is good (minus scavenger room as its just plain annoying). I would personally prefer the creature cap to put the player at a disadvantage as you can always bulk out your army with hero converts etc. but thats just me.

    Let me know if you got a draft of this map ready, ill glady give it a shot and give feedback.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  3. June 10th, 2011, 10:26 #3
    Duke Ragereaver
    Duke Ragereaver is offline
    Dungeon Keeper
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    1,010
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: Lucien 046 Steam ID: Duke_Ragereaver
    Send a message via MSN to Duke Ragereaver Send a message via Skype™ to Duke Ragereaver

    Default Re: Sandbox for DK1 Level

    Sounds pretty cool if you could work that out. Can you keep this updated by posting a thumbnail of the progress, please?


    Dungeon Keeper I campaign: Undead Keeper
    Download it here!

    Dungeon Keeper I campaign: Post Undead Keeper
    Download it here!
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  4. June 10th, 2011, 11:48 #4
    Zyraen
    Zyraen is offline
    Troll
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    256

    Default Re: Sandbox for DK1 Level

    Quote Originally Posted by diggory View Post
    This sounds like a great idea. Would the enemy keepers be completely seperate from you? IE there is lava/impen rock between your building sections?
    Indeed. They are separated from you by Lava, and they have no Bridges. Horned Reapers and Dragons may run across, but they don't have scout or other irritating tendencies. Hellhounds might but you just have to Guardpost-off the lava areas. Anyway, they don't have the Scavenger Room, so... nothing to worry about. Unless Level 10 Flies scare you.

    The idea of controlling hero invasion via rooms sounds like a resonable idea seeing as there is no in built way to trigger invasions. What other things can be used as triggers though? Proximity to the portal or claiming certain parts? Just wondered if there were proximity triggers in the sense that the closer you dig to the hero portals, the harder the stuff they spawn is?
    My first idea was actually exactly that - to trigger spawns using points.
    The main problem is toggling the invasion On/Off.
    It is really not difficult to implement at all, just that in between the Spawn Timers, the Player doesn't really have Any Way of knowing whether he just Switched it On or Switched it Off. Alternatively, it could be a repeatable point where you drop a Creature at point X and a Party Spawns at the Hero Gate (nearby or far). Its a bit cheesy though, to be too predictable like that.

    I think the standard room/creature set is good (minus scavenger room as its just plain annoying). I would personally prefer the creature cap to put the player at a disadvantage as you can always bulk out your army with hero converts etc. but thats just me.
    As mentioned, no one else will have the irritating Scavenger Room, just Yourself. Of course you could always "Give" them a Scavenger Room if you want to be Scavenged.
    I think I will put the Creature Limit at 30 / 40 / 40 then. Its not like those 40 Creatures will endanger you anyway, because they can't get to you.

    Let me know if you got a draft of this map ready, ill glady give it a shot and give feedback.
    Sure, gladly! I'm happily working on it The Script is also about 30% done.

    Sounds pretty cool if you could work that out. Can you keep this updated by posting a thumbnail of the progress, please?
    Thanks for the support. I will probably link up the script I drew up, when I'm done with it, since it can be used for any level.

    My Greatest Challenge with the script is sadly the 48 limit of IF conditions, for DK1 Scripts.
    I've Actually dropped from 4 Tiers of Levels to 3 Tiers now, basically default Levels 5, Medium level 7-8 and High level 10.
    Likewise, also dropped from 4 Tiers of Timers to 3 Timers only - 40, 25, 15 minutes.
    Dungeon Keeper 1 / Deeper Dungeons Fan
    No intention to play DK2

    I'm Chinese, so please try and spell better than me...
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  5. June 10th, 2011, 15:55 #5
    Zyraen
    Zyraen is offline
    Troll
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    256

    Default Re: Sandbox for DK1 Level

    I have just updated the first post, including the Map I don't think I'll change it much, just be populating it and testing out Triggers.
    Feedback is welcome though although I must add that I don't really intend to make a more complex Hero Keep.
    Dungeon Keeper 1 / Deeper Dungeons Fan
    No intention to play DK2

    I'm Chinese, so please try and spell better than me...
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  6. June 10th, 2011, 16:33 #6
    diggory
    diggory is offline
    Imp diggory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    7
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: diggory2607

    Default Re: Sandbox for DK1 Level

    Looks good from what little you can tell from those map shots. Couple of questions:

    1) Are the player's gem blocks embedded in that gold seam to the east?
    2) Is the player's portal initially blocked off?

    Obviously follow this design on this level for now, but if you do anymore levels like this, the DK2 My Pet Dungeon (sandbox) mode generally doesnt have enemy keepers. However nothing wrong with a bit of a twist I suppose.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  7. June 10th, 2011, 16:43 #7
    Zyraen
    Zyraen is offline
    Troll
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    256

    Default Re: Sandbox for DK1 Level

    1) Yes your Gem Block is in that tiny seam. When you remove all the Gold Blocks, its a stand alone column with 4 sides mine away to your heart's content
    2) Yes your Portal is walled off and unclaimed. (that's why its yellow, not red). The Enemy Keepers start with their portal claimed, but yours is different.

    I caught your note in the other thread on Favourite Levels that Enemy Keepers require you to rush but these Keepers don't.
    They can both have 40x level 10 Horned Reapers, just don't connect your bridge to them and they won't attack you.

    Since unlike Standard DK levels, you don't have to kill them to win, you can
    A) Just ignore them
    B) Attack them if you like
    C) link them with Bridges to Each other or the Hero Keep to the Keepers and enjoy the show

    Tentatively, the Creature Pool is...
    50 Bile Demons, Dragons, Dark Mistress, Orcs. I consider these the most popular creatures
    35 Warlocks, Trolls and Hellhounds*
    * - hey if you build the Scavenger Room before you have your Portal Max, I assume you want them for some inexplicable reason?
    20 Demonspawn, Tentacles, Spiders, Beetles, Flies - I don't think you mind not having any of these

    In other words, I don't think you will need to worry about your Enemies draining all the good beasties from the Pool.
    Even if they do, with just 1 Creature and a Scavenger Room, you can drain them all to your side...
    Alternatively, feel free to recommend increased Numbers for the Pool
    Dungeon Keeper 1 / Deeper Dungeons Fan
    No intention to play DK2

    I'm Chinese, so please try and spell better than me...
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  8. June 10th, 2011, 17:05 #8
    diggory
    diggory is offline
    Imp diggory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    7
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: diggory2607

    Default Re: Sandbox for DK1 Level

    What heroes you planning to have poking around the keep, besides the avatar in the centre?
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  9. June 10th, 2011, 18:15 #9
    Zyraen
    Zyraen is offline
    Troll
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    256

    Default Re: Sandbox for DK1 Level

    The Keep is actually more or less empty. On the way to the 2 big chambers, there's 2 small Lava Pools where a Wizard 9 and Archer 8 will fire at you. There's a pair on both sides, so altogether these 4 are the only Hero Creatures that begin on the map.

    When you enter either Chamber, BOTH chambers will spawn parties based on your configuration (Barracks & Graveyard).
    The weakest and default party of 5 for this is a Samurai leading Barbarian, Giant, Fairy, Archer, all level 5.
    The strongest party of 7 that will spawn are all level 10, a Knight leading 2 Samurai, 2 Fairies, 2 Wizards.

    Finally when you reach the Avatar's room, he will spawn in with his bodyguard, as well as another wave of reinforcements enter from elsewhere.
    The "weakest" default bodyguards are all level 7, 2 Knights 2 Samurai 2 Wizards.
    The Avatar himself is of course level 10.

    Note the Strongest Avatar Party is the same, just all at level 10.

    ---------- Post added at 02:15 ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 ----------

    I've done a calculation that with 5 Hero Gates, each with 9 possible party spawns, and 1 more Gate with 2 possible spawns, I will *definitely* exceed the 48 IF condition limits. I'm also going to go out on a limb to guess that a Barracks or Graveyard alone could be sufficient to control the difficulty of the Spawns.

    Since Barracks occurs earlier, I will just go with Barracks as the Party Controller, and assume that people don't really find a reason to build it beyond 4x4.
    I understand some comments given are that its rather useless, and 1 tile is enough to attract Orcs.
    Please, please FEEDBACK here if my understanding is incorrect.

    Sad to say, I have little choice but to greatly reduce the types of party spawns from 9 to 5, in order of difficulty to be...
    1) Default : Level 5, Party of 5
    2) 17 Tiles : Level 7-8, Party of 6
    3) 25 Tiles : Level 7-8, Party of 7
    4) 30 Tiles : Level 10, Party of 6
    5) 35 Tiles : Level 10, Party of 7
    Also, when you attack the Keep, the Defensive Parties from 2 Gates will no longer default to Party 1).
    Instead it will default to Party 2) then going straight to 5) at 30 Tiles.

    With this, for 2 Defensive Gates I use (1+2) IFs each.
    For the Main Gate and 2 Offensive Gates on your side, they will use (1+5) each.
    For Avatar Gate it will use (1+2) IFs when spawning the Avatar & Bodyguard, +2 IFs for Winning the Game.
    The Barracks Configuration will require 5 IFs
    34 IFs used altogether.

    ===============

    3 Timer tiers of 40, 25, 15 corresponding to Temple Tiles 26 30 35

    IF (Timer <= 15 mins)
    IF TEMPLE >= 35
    Set Spawn Flag
    Reset Timer

    IF (Timer <= 25 mins)
    IF TEMPLE >= 30
    Set Spawn Flag
    Reset Timer

    IF (Timer <= 40 mins)
    IF TEMPLE >= 26
    Set Spawn Flag
    Reset Timer

    40 IFs used so far.

    ================

    And the Spawn Flag.
    Torture Chamber 26 spawns the West Gate, 30 spawns the East Gate, 35 Spawns both.

    IF Spawn Flag On
    IF Hero Creatures < 100
    {
    Spawn Main Gate

    IF Torture Chamber >= 26
    IF Torture Chamber < 30
    Spawn West Gate

    IF Torture Chamber >= 30
    Spawn East Gate
    IF Torture Chamber >= 35
    Spawn West Gate
    }
    Total 6 IFs

    ==============

    46 IFs in all.

    Whew... This is just Metacode to try and organise the script.. hopefully I can finalise it tomorrow... Yay...
    Last edited by Zyraen; June 10th, 2011 at 18:21.
    Dungeon Keeper 1 / Deeper Dungeons Fan
    No intention to play DK2

    I'm Chinese, so please try and spell better than me...
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  10. June 11th, 2011, 03:52 #10
    Zyraen
    Zyraen is offline
    Troll
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    256

    Default Re: Sandbox for DK1 Level

    If anyone is interested (to check), I have included the Script into the first post as a Spoiler.
    Meantime I'll be testing the level wish me luck...
    Last edited by Zyraen; June 11th, 2011 at 03:56.
    Dungeon Keeper 1 / Deeper Dungeons Fan
    No intention to play DK2

    I'm Chinese, so please try and spell better than me...
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Forum Rules