Knight/Black Knight Simularity Problem

[Metal Gear Rex]

Alright, there is no reason to include both of these besides for the sake of having one on the Heroes side and one on the Evil side. If we get rid of one, it is the Black Knight simply because the Knight isn't such an expandable unit and has also been there for like 2 games already (Even if he somehow sucked in the latter, weird for a creature exactly the same as one who was used to bring everyone to their knees)

Alrighty, I think we need to discuss on how to make them different. I don't believe in this quanity on something like this, and I didn't like the lack of variety in DK2 compared to DK1 (I'm sure many could agree on this)

I mean the Elven Archer and Dark Elf weren't exactly alike, they had some differences. Although I recall hearing something about combining the Dark Elf and Rouge, so I'm not even sure about that...

Anyways, what points should one score where yet detucted otherwise? I really don't want this to have some of the issues DK2 had.

[Trotim]

The Knight is the Knight when he's controlled by Heroes and the Black Knight when controlled by Keepers.

[Metal Gear Rex]

Alright, there is no reason to include both of these besides for the sake of having one on the Heroes side and one on the Evil side.

Already mentioned, I think we need to do better than that. I mean honestly, we lost the Dragon, Orc, Demon Spawn, and Tentacle for creatures like this. Do we really want duplicates? In a true game of DK1, the max amount of creature types you can get is 25 not including Imp, Tunneller, Horny, Avatar, and Knight for obvious reasons.

25 different creatures, quite alot eh?

In DK2, the max amount of creature types you can get is 22, not including Imp, Dwarf, Maiden, Horny, 3 Princes, Lord, Stone Knight, and King for obvious reasons. However the max amount of varitey is about 18, consideirng how many clone creatures there are.

Warlock and Wizard are examples of clone creatures, yet look at DK1. They're nearly completely different in their situation of battle. Warlocks made the better support yet Wizards were stand alone units.

We don't have EA breathing down our necks like how Bullfrog did (In a way, yeah about permission but it isn't the same even so) so I'm sure we can build the kind of time to make sure we don't carry duplicates. Gameplay wise, it is a bad thing.

DK1 Giant and Bile Demon were quite different, but not in DK2's way with the Giant being better than the Bile Demon in every possible way. Giant was stronger and did more damage than Bile Demon, yes. At level 10 his speed made him a deadly unit to match with. But the Bile Demon had alot of health, and the gas to deal with multiple units as well as deal extra damage. The Bile Demon became useful in some situations, such as fighting 50 Thieves but the Giant wasn't. However you'd want to use a Giant against a Knight compared to a Bile Demon for the sake of your other fellow creatures.

That is proof that it can be done without making one more powerful than the other on an everyday everything situation.

[Trotim]

What are you talking about. When converted to a Keeper's side, a Knight automatically gets the looks and stats of a Black Knight. That's what I was trying to convey. They would not have the same stats, but a Keeper would never be able to have a heroic Knight, mostly for balance reasons (they can be truly overpowered for campaign missions then for instance)

There's no need for more "similar but oh so different" units. As you mentioned, there's already enough duplicates in it as is.

[Mothrayas]

It's pretty stupid for a hero Knight to get nerfed if he gets converted.

Just scrap the Black Knight altogether, problem fixed.

[Metal Gear Rex]

It's pretty stupid for a hero Knight to get nerfed if he gets converted.

Just scrap the Black Knight altogether, problem fixed.

I wanted to avoid that but if we can't think of any other way to make him balanced I'm not sure there is any way to avoid it.

[A New Room]

I have to agree, Black knight should taken out to at the very least provide a slot for a new creatures.

I never really did like them myself :/

[natchoguy]

I like the dark knight ;(

[Metal Gear Rex]

I like the dark knight ;(

Well then get a Knight, without DK2's annoying "HATE ALL" thing with Evil VS Good, you pretty much are getting a Black Knight. They're the same thing, exactly the same stats (I'm not joking when I say this, it is very sad)

Come to think of it, this is why I started this topic. I honestly did not know people would be so willing to take him out, with the exception of a few, but yeah the Knight is the same thing.

[MeinCookie]

My suggestion is make them both equally good against each other... mostly. Good knights would excel at close combat, being slightly more melee-resistant. Black Knights, higher health but more range-resistant. Difference.