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MaxHayman
July 3rd, 2010, 23:06
What are the rankings from easiest to hardest?

eg. Master Keeper, Paranoid, ect..

Hapuga
July 4th, 2010, 10:51
Master Keeper, Stalwart, Guardian, Conqueror, Thick Skinned, Paranoid, Idiot, Psychotic, Grayman.

That my rating. While these names suggest a specific gameplay type, they all act differently in different situations.

MK - is more or less adequate. He builds up his dungeon (very slowly), captures critical points (nearest neutral portals), trains his creatures up to level 4-8 and only then attacks. He is only dangerous if you give him enough time to develop, and that about 30-45 minutes. Builds full 5x5 rooms, with double fortified walls. Plays best on really large maps with plenty of resources and portals. Has a bug of building 2,3,4,5 lairs or one really HUGE lair.

Stalwart - is very similar to MK. Builds a casino early. Builds all rooms in full size. Single-fortified walls. Captures portals. Good on big and medium maps. Trains creatures to level 4-8, attacks.

Guardian - very similar to stalwart. Likes to build a big training room. full size rooms. does not attack often.

Conqueror - may be dangerous for novice players and on small maps with many portals. Builds very small rooms. Takes all the portals it may find. Attacks very quickly. Tactic - swarm the enemy with level 1-2 goblins. Usually fails. Easily eliminated after the fail.

Thick Skinned - builds full rooms. Rarely attacks. Is average at taking portals. Likes to sit and train (the 1.7 AI is a typical Thick Skinned). You can play with him for looooong hours. Until u get bored and just wipe him out.

Paranoid - has strange tactics, I could never figure out a pattern of his actions. Builds small rooms. sometimes attacks. sometimes ducks in defence. Easy to smash.

Idiot - is not really an idiot. He builds small 4x4 rooms, but he builds them quickly, because they need less resources! As such, he gets more good units because he accesses them quicker, and his pool is not spammed by goblins and warlocks and fireflies. He attacks after about 60 minutres of gameplay. Imo, one of the best keepers on small maps, where keepers with huge rooms always get stuck.

Psychotic - similar to paranoid. Never seen him attacking.

Grayman - sits and waits to be killed. Very slow dungeon development. small rooms. no portal taking.

EDIT: forgot to mention, these are 1.3 version observations. I'm playing on 1.51 now and there are slight differences. I will post them later.

Metal Gear Rex
July 4th, 2010, 11:31
Very useful set of information Hapuga.


Idiot - is not really an idiot. He builds small 4x4 rooms, but he builds them quickly, because they need less resources! As such, he gets more good units because he accesses them quicker, and his pool is not spammed by goblins and warlocks and fireflies. He attacks after about 60 minutres of gameplay. Imo, one of the best keepers on small maps, where keepers with huge rooms always get stuck.

And here I thought I sucked when I lost against one of these when I was like 8 years old >.> Of course I did but not as much as I thought I did, apparently.

Duke Ragereaver
July 4th, 2010, 11:42
Nice informative post Hapuga, I always wondered about the different Keeper AI's in DK2, some things were more obvious than others. Again, well summed up.


EDIT: forgot to mention, these are 1.3 version observations. I'm playing on 1.51 now and there are slight differences. I will post them later.

I'm wondering; are the differences between the AI's more noticiable in 1.51, arren't they?

MaxHayman
July 4th, 2010, 17:25
What would be the hardest for the map SWISS CHEESE?

Hapuga
July 4th, 2010, 22:18
I'd say Master Keeper, but I won't. Master Keeper wastes all his money trying to build a graveyard and a temple (if you let him develop that long) and that eats all his cash. As you probably know, AI is terrible at finding gold. So he just sits there waiting when all his trained creatures retire, leaving him with level 1s. So, I'd say, try Stalwart.

I modified Swiss Cheese for more balanced gameplay against AI, if you're interested, I may attach a map.

MaxHayman
July 5th, 2010, 06:11
Yes please! What differences did you make to it?

MeinCookie
July 5th, 2010, 06:40
ohhh neat... do these AI types apply to 1.7?

Hapuga
July 5th, 2010, 10:38
I added gem seams so he never runs out of gold. I also altered map navigation through chunks of gold so now the AI is more aggressive against each other and the player. I will post it when I get home (30 min)

MeinCookie
Partly. 1.7 AI has a problem with recognizing the threat level (thats how AI works, he sees your creature threat level, and depending on how much threat there is, drops his units into the war zone to "balance" the threat. Thats why he drops none to 1 unit when he sees your imp, 1-2 if he runs into a wandering monster and all his units when u drop your units at him) So these patterns fail, because the AI only builds accordingly, but never drops creatures into combat.

MaxHayman
July 6th, 2010, 06:56
Okay thankyou.

Hapuga
July 6th, 2010, 12:03
Okay, here's the updated Swiss Cheese.

Fixed:

- All keepers develop and gather gold properly.

Improved:

- All keepers now use their resources wisely.
- All keepers now fight with each other.
- Rebalanced gameplay. There is no 1 "strong" keeper. All AI keepers now have equal chances to win/lose.
- Improved terrain for helping the AI to navigate through map.

Creature balance:
- Goblins have their damage increased.
- Flies have their damage increased and "wind" spell is now accessible at level 6 instead of 8.
- Trolls have their melee damage increased.
- Bile Demons have their damage slightly increased.
- Black Knights have their HP and melee damage lowered.
- Warlocks have their melee and spell damage increased.
- Dark Elves have their melee and ranged damage increased.
- Mistresses have their HP and damage lowered.
- Dark Angels have their spell damage increased, lowered HP and melee damage.
- Salamanders have their spell damage increased.
- Rogues have their HP increased.
- Vampires have their melee damage lowered.

MaxHayman
July 6th, 2010, 20:56
Link gone?

emperorjay
July 6th, 2010, 21:31
i'll relink it for you :)

MaxHayman
July 6th, 2010, 22:42
Its good, find it a bit to easy with 3 levelups in each corner tho :P

MeinCookie
July 7th, 2010, 01:35
I'm not sure about this... but it think i have a vague playing against an bad AI that didn't actually mine out individual rooms and built them all adjoined. I thought it was 'paranoid' but can't be sure now.

I was playing on 1.7, so can anyone clarify or quash this? I was young at the time so i may have been utterly mistaken.

Hapuga
July 7th, 2010, 08:06
I added that "jit fer lulz" so to say. I love to play with my map revealed to see all the hardcore between AI =)