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View Full Version : Best dk2 AI!!!



blragh
September 8th, 2009, 23:26
Simple question. most of them seem horrible. :vampire:

dk2player
September 8th, 2009, 23:31
and the question is...

Madkill
September 8th, 2009, 23:50
and the question is...

Which one is the 'best' I think. :spider:

blragh
September 9th, 2009, 01:16
Yes I guess I should have put it better. No results as of yet?

dk2player
September 9th, 2009, 03:02
well, 1.51 is told to have the best ai, and i think soeone was gng to improve it. Unfortunatly, 1.51 has no frosty's so no hero portals

blragh
September 9th, 2009, 03:08
what about in 1.73? they all seem to be pretty similar. I guess it'll be fun to figure it out, but by the time it's endgame everything is so mashed together. :bile:

Hapuga
September 9th, 2009, 06:44
With introducing 1.60 something went very wrong. 1.7 has no changes or very little changes in code since the last version.

If your computer supports 1.51 use it, cuz its most developed.

Ðârk Âñgêl
September 9th, 2009, 11:56
maybe he means the best kind of ai ?
master, idiotic, psycho, whatever..

Duke Ragereaver
September 9th, 2009, 12:11
All AI's have their differences, some are defensive, some are more agressive. But on the long term the all-round Master Keeper AI is the best, though the Conquerer AI can surpass it in the early game. The third on place would be I think the Thick Skin Keeper.

Perhaps we could make a table/list with the exact chararistics/strengths/differences of each AI?

Ðârk Âñgêl
September 9th, 2009, 12:14
and some are just biggest noobs, and do nothing.
once i tried them all out, and maybe the half were same. they built 2 rooms and stopped doing anything.
1 difference was the different size of rooms.

Duke Ragereaver
September 9th, 2009, 12:21
Did you tried using different versions? I've heard 1.5 (or 1.6) has the best AI. The AI in 1.0 was moderate, not sure about the ones in 1.3 but 1.7 and 1.73 they SERIOUSLY blow!

Ðârk Âñgêl
September 9th, 2009, 12:22
i tried them only in 1.3 and 1.7

in 1.3 is ai better than in 1.7 i think

Duke Ragereaver
September 9th, 2009, 12:25
Yes, by far. The AI Keepers in 1.7 (or 1.73) didn't even picked up and dropped creatures when I attacked. And battles between AI's never surpassed really more than imps fighting for tiles to claim. :eek:

dk2player
September 9th, 2009, 15:32
I don't know. I only had trouble once with a computer, long ago. I think I was using 1.51, because he was attacking with level 8 bile dmons and black knights. But still. Human players are always better than comps. Just a known fact

Ðârk Âñgêl
September 9th, 2009, 18:59
there was 1-2 times when i lost vs ai. long time ago.
it was on 1.3 i think.
i played the map sweese cheese with 3 other ai. some of them were brave keepers (not master), dont remember how many. brave keeper is famous for claiming neutral portals fast.
i didnt take the match seriously and didnt claim the portals in the middle. i played very slow and was going to collect dark angels. maybe after 10-15 mins i had about 4. only 4 dark angels on lvl 1. then i tried to claim the portal near my dungeon...and what happened then,.. i was rushed by a big army of goblins lvl 1-3. first i thought, ok they are only goblins, i have dark angels, no reason to worry.... then.. wtf 1 angel died, 2nd and 3rd.. wtf ? (had no heal first). started getting other creatures in order to survive. that wasnt enough, they slowly entered dungeon, no chance.. after 15 mins they were at my heart and killed it :D
after this game i started the same game again with same rules and same kind of play, i couldnt believe i lost to ai. this time i kept my eye on my lvl 1 angels and used more strategy, wasnt hard to defeat a huge army of goblins this time.
after that i never underestimated 1.3 ai again ^^

Dark_Omega MK2
September 9th, 2009, 23:27
The DK2 AI... has a very weird tendency... sometimes it does nothing at all and had really poor creatures... and sometimes it grows pretty quick and forms a very decent army (enough to end up in my torture chamber)

It has a a weird tendency of not mining gold... this seems to come completely at random... the imps simply stop mining gold... even if its next to them...

The only way i can make the AI challenging it making a "Computer Friendly Map" (as i called it) i gave them i gem seam sorrounded by a treasure full of gold... and sometimes i give them the extra imps secret item... They FINALLY get harder that way... but... wtf...

blragh
September 10th, 2009, 03:10
Master Keeper on Frostys realm ... only ... made a huge casino and a library.

Hapuga
September 10th, 2009, 08:22
The DK2 AI... has a very weird tendency... sometimes it does nothing at all and had really poor creatures... and sometimes it grows pretty quick and forms a very decent army (enough to end up in my torture chamber)

It has a a weird tendency of not mining gold... this seems to come completely at random... the imps simply stop mining gold... even if its next to them...

The only way i can make the AI challenging it making a "Computer Friendly Map" (as i called it) i gave them i gem seam sorrounded by a treasure full of gold... and sometimes i give them the extra imps secret item... They FINALLY get harder that way... but... wtf...

Linear and pretty stright-forward.

1. Computer does not expand normally when there is a complicated map. Because of a very primitive algorithm of building rooms, AI tends to stuck when he can't dig a 5x5 room, for example.

2. Gold. With gold there are two noticable issues. 1, AI ignores single gold veins. AI will only dig gold when it is in huge chunks. once again, AI follows some pattern of gold digging, like 2x2 3x3 squares. so sometimes AI may dig some gold out, and leave 1-2 veins. Second, AI tends to dig more gold when in combat. When AI is idle, he digs less.

Dark_Omega MK2
September 10th, 2009, 11:22
ok... now the AI refused to mine the gem seam i gave to it... it wouldnt be a problem... but when creatures leave the dungeon (no payment) and other level 1 creatures come...

Weird... because yesterday the AI seemed to mine the gem seam... its just pure random...

Hapuga
September 10th, 2009, 13:16
Be careful with that. (sigh) bugs in this game never end =)

AI is greedy. And when I say greedy I MEAN it. Giving a gem seam to AI usually ends up with it digging the seam repeatedly, without stopping. In this case, AI will have a 7x7 treasury =DD Thats where he usually stops at. Lots of goblins, flies, some warlocks and LOTS of money =D

Let him develop a bit, and put gem seam somewhere on the way to your base, in the middle. Now, AI will probably bump into it and start mining, supporting his dungeon, and not just parasitizing on easy cash.

Thats how I do, cuz I really don't know any more ways to make him less stupid =)

Krizzie
September 10th, 2009, 13:55
When I first did the campaign in 1.3 I had some hard challenges with some maps when I redid the campaign in 1.7 it was easy. The map where you can get the level 10 dark angels was massive in 1.3, you really needed to be fast else the AI had the DA's and that usualy meant defeat. in 1.7 they took over the land around the castle but never broke in to it.

dk2player
September 10th, 2009, 13:57
Or, you could change the settings in the map. Just right click the computer's name, and check computer controled player.

Unfortunatly, if you want to play online, the computer controled player will stay computer controled, so the other guy will be controlled by a computer.

Ðârk Âñgêl
September 10th, 2009, 14:25
When I first did the campaign in 1.3 I had some hard challenges with some maps when I redid the campaign in 1.7 it was easy. The map where you can get the level 10 dark angels was massive in 1.3, you really needed to be fast else the AI had the DA's and that usualy meant defeat. in 1.7 they took over the land around the castle but never broke in to it.

yep, first time i had troubles with this lvl, too. i needed several tries to win this lvl. 1st try i even didnt know you can get dark angels, later when i saw green having a bunch of new creatures with wings at lvl 10 i was like wtf. he attacked and killed me. i didnt understand how he got them and lost the lvl several times (tried to build many traps for defence, but nothing helped). later i figured out you have to kill 20 heroes, that was hard, too.

blragh
September 11th, 2009, 23:38
I always seemed to have to keep the updated 1.73 version, otherwise it just crashes every single time, so I don't know how I would play 1.3. if I go temple immediately 2 dark angels at level 4 can dominate however many goblins they have. sometimes small maps they are good but otherwise it's just a waste of time to play. :giant:

blragh
September 12th, 2009, 04:18
I played Onslaught and the heroes being pushed kill the other keepers before I even get to them with all my conversions. Damn I want to play with some real people. :bile:

Krizzie
September 12th, 2009, 09:18
We need a Keeper2FX. :P

Hapuga
September 12th, 2009, 10:27
I always seemed to have to keep the updated 1.73 version, otherwise it just crashes every single time, so I don't know how I would play 1.3. if I go temple immediately 2 dark angels at level 4 can dominate however many goblins they have. sometimes small maps they are good but otherwise it's just a waste of time to play. :giant:

try this version. http://forum.keeperklan.com/if-ur-interested-t128.html

dk2player
September 12th, 2009, 13:34
Isn't their anyway we can combine the aggresion of 1.3, and put it in the combat pit using 1.7?

It would help greatly.

Hapuga
September 12th, 2009, 14:04
Thats what I tried to do whole last week. Find the 1.51 AI, tear the b**ch out and ram it into 1.7

dk2player
September 12th, 2009, 14:23
did it work?

Hapuga
September 12th, 2009, 14:29
If it would, I'd post something triumphant on the forum, doncha think =)

Dark_Omega MK2
September 12th, 2009, 22:29
the good thing about the crappy AI... is that the first times yoou play the game and defeat the computer constanly... it feels like "yay im good at strategy games"

the bad thing is when you find that the AI is actually idiotic... its like bursting someones bubble...

(yeah... that kinda happened to me he sixth time i played the game on skirmish it does not feel nice)

Another fun fact:

The good thing about the crappy AI... is also that you can make a route that connects all four (in my case r four player games always) and watch them fight to each other... to protect yourself you just have to put a bunch of random traps on the entrance of your dungeon... and thats it... to me at least... its a little of satisfaction being some kind of puppet and giving them some action to their boring and computarized lives (or programs)...

well... now seriously... i wish i could play with real ppl XD

Stiekel
September 13th, 2009, 02:02
I am curios why the AI is stupid, give some examples :P

dk2player
September 13th, 2009, 02:15
-runs out of gold
-to weak
-uses the trainning room before combat pit
-doesn't drop all his creatures
-drops all the creatures in the trainning room even if they are level 4+
-doesn't dig for gold
-gets stuck way to often
-claims the portal before making the lair
-doesn't throw away creatures.
Need any more?

Dark_Omega MK2
September 13th, 2009, 02:48
Need any more?

dont forget it always has 1 creature in the combat pit forever...

Jibbits
September 13th, 2009, 03:57
When I was younger and played this I used to actually help the AI by like throwing all my creatures in a torture chamber next to his dungeon and then letting him claim it so all my creatures would become his lol

And sometimes I would build a nice dungeon for him after I almost conquer him and put traps around his dungeon heart

I would do things like that to help AI you?

Ðârk Âñgêl
September 13th, 2009, 18:14
dark omega, join our tournaments and hamachi in order to play with real ppl :P

@dk2player,
good facts, but there is 1 fact which is the most stupid and its not in the list.
- ai mostly does NOTHING anymore after 5-10 mins gameplay !

dk2player
September 13th, 2009, 19:16
:cool:
When I was younger and played this I used to actually help the AI by like throwing all my creatures in a torture chamber next to his dungeon and then letting him claim it so all my creatures would become his lol

And sometimes I would build a nice dungeon for him after I almost conquer him and put traps around his dungeon heart

I would do things like that to help AI you?

Well, I would always try to see if there was anyway to get the computer to get the nuetral creatures.

And one time, I tried to get the computer to kill me by picking up all my creatures, but they still couldn't do that right. They are so random :p :D

Dark_Omega MK2
September 13th, 2009, 22:39
dark omega, join our tournaments and hamachi in order to play with real ppl :P

@dk2player,
good facts, but there is 1 fact which is the most stupid and its not in the list.
- ai mostly does NOTHING anymore after 5-10 mins gameplay !

i really wish i could... but i cant seem to configure my game to hamachi D=... even with the tutorial

dk2player
September 13th, 2009, 22:46
well, it helps if you look in the multiplay section.

And if that doesn't help, just go on hamachi and hope I can help.

Jibbits
September 15th, 2009, 05:44
Would it be possible that someone could post the Dungeon Keeper 2 version 1.51 DKII.icd file on here?

blragh
September 15th, 2009, 07:38
I don't understand. To play a harder AI I need the 1.3 version but then the errors will happen and you cant finish a game!

usually, if I want to start a game, I go and rush build a temple and a combat pit/training room, lair/hatch of course, library, sac my goblins for dwarves and salamanders for mistress then just hit a big gold seam and ... go away for about 4:20. then hit them as hard as I can.

all in all master keeper and thick skinned seem to be the best, though psychotic and conqueror are good from time to time. sometimes they will be good 1 game and ... miserable the next. it doesn't help that I usually play maps with heroes in the middle and they never convert them. :monk:

Metal Gear Rex
September 15th, 2009, 07:40
By the way, in the editor you can open up a skirmish map, then edit 'Keeper 1' so that it is a computer. Then save it as a different map. Play it, and you can study the AI. I used it for a different purpose of mimicing DK1's Keeper Assistant. Unfortunately, people in the past are much smarter than the future. Which surprises me because DK1 AIs usually become drunks with lightning and gold.

Madkill
September 15th, 2009, 23:04
Unfortunately, people in the past are much smarter than the future.

Games have degraded in the requirement of having a moderate IQ, yes. :spider:

Hapuga
October 18th, 2009, 10:40
Thats basically a technical problem. They were very poorly programmed. AI has a very limited set "if" > "then" functions. If he gets into an unknown situation, he just freezes. That's why you have to help him on every map, making terrain and layout "waypoints". He will develop more steadily by using those.

Metal Gear Rex
October 18th, 2009, 17:46
If that's the case, then why is DK1 AI pretty good in surviving?

Hapuga
October 18th, 2009, 18:04
If that's the case, then why is DK1 AI pretty good in surviving?

-Captain Obvious!! We need you!!!

-Captain Obvious: BECAUSE DK 1 HAD A BETTER SCRIPTED AI!

-Thank you Captain! You saved the day once again!!

Metal Gear Rex
October 18th, 2009, 18:07
Lolz, a joke out of a joke. Oh so very clever.

Slichizard
November 18th, 2010, 16:15
Greyman is much better than any other AI. It scouts for gold much better, builds rooms quicker and whats important does attack and defend itself properly. You won't find it getting stuck anytime.

Hapuga
November 27th, 2010, 12:26
depends on the map. but hes good, yes.