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View Full Version : KeeperFX SUGGESTION: Enable/Disable original DK



jomalin
January 26th, 2011, 10:38
As in past threads we all have seen, they are lot of people here that agree with the changes of Dungeon Keeper original functionalities and other people that disagree with that. I am talking about changes like changing original creature values, creating new sacrifices that weren't in the original DK (that can make the game completed easier), etc...
I think it will be good something like that:

1. A full list of these changes contained in KeeperFX (only changes related to original functionalities, not graphical enhacements, or new functionalities that doesn't affect the game directly like a infinite savegame slots for example) to let us know wich things were changed.

OR

2. Probably an option in KeeperFX options menu like "Original DK functionalities" to Enable/Disable?

OR

3. Or provide a separate zip file in the KeeperFX website used to overwrite KeeperFX files to get the original DK things

Ogre
January 26th, 2011, 11:02
Would be too much work, I think. IMO they should focus on KeeperFX. If someone original DK, get a copy of DK gold, works wonders with XP, not sure bout' vista and Win7.

And ofc, its only imo.

mefistotelis
January 26th, 2011, 12:57
KeeperFX is not original DK. The code in it is not simply reconstructed, it is replaced by a new code invented by KeeperFX programmers. It is written in a way which keeps compatibility with original sub-functions and data structures, but still, it is our code, not Bullfrogs code.

This is why it would be hard to keep complete compatibility with original DK. KeeperFX is just not original DK. It becomes more and more different from it, with every remade piece of code.

People who would like original DK, may just use original DK. It can be run on any machine under DOSBox.

Mothrayas
January 26th, 2011, 13:36
I think what he wants is just a way to choose between DragonsLover's patch or traditional DK settings, because not everyone agrees with what DL modifies on the creatures, levels etc.

Metal Gear Rex
January 26th, 2011, 16:01
I think what he wants is just a way to choose between DragonsLover's patch or traditional DK settings, because not everyone agrees with what DL modifies on the creatures, levels etc.

Yes and that also makes this whole thread pointless because DL already agreed to start giving out his own patch as an actual patch.

DragonsLover
January 26th, 2011, 19:46
*Sigh* That was really a [email protected]$$%?& mistake... ooooh man... -_-

Mefisto, read here: for your next version of KeeperFX, ensure that you use the ORIGINAL stuff. Stop using mine!!! I'll take care of the modified stuff and make it like before : as an unofficial separated patch. If there's a problem, you can still PM me.


1. A full list of these changes contained in KeeperFX (only changes related to original functionalities, not graphical enhacements, or new functionalities that doesn't affect the game directly like a infinite savegame slots for example) to let us know wich things were changed.

Doing this would take me hours, if not days. However, I have written the changes in Creature.txt and Dd1creat.txt files (now in separate .cfg files for KeeperFX) in a Readme. I can list them all for you if you want.

Mothrayas
January 26th, 2011, 20:27
Doing this would take me hours, if not days. However, I have written the changes in Creature.txt and Dd1creat.txt files (now in separate .cfg files for KeeperFX) in a Readme. I can list them all for you if you want.

Do want a list, please.

P_Hansson
January 26th, 2011, 20:48
So.. If we could figure out a way to load DL's patch optionally with an in-game check box or something, could we have both?

Because I really think original DK balance is unsuitable for MP (or for that matter if I manage to create a better AI).

Mothrayas
January 26th, 2011, 20:51
Yeah, that's pretty much what I think jomalin is saying in the first post. Option to pick between either.

P_Hansson
January 26th, 2011, 20:55
My post was more aimed at DL, as it now seems it will be totally out.

Metal Gear Rex
January 27th, 2011, 00:59
It's pretty easy to copy the default folders and put them somewhere else as a backup before applying DL's patch so you can easily switch them in and out by simply overwriting the files. It is much more easier to do that then say, designing a totally new feature and fix the hundreds of bugs that come along with it.

P_Hansson
January 27th, 2011, 09:46
If it leads to 100+ bugs, I won't do it, obviously.

However, it may just be matter of introducing 1 GUI item and prepend some file paths (to achieve a sort of "mod folder" effect).

Anyway, it's a future consideration and it's not on top of my TODO-list. It's somewhere on the MP related things that need to be fixed/implemented.

Krizzie
January 27th, 2011, 12:00
I welcome this with open arms! :D

As for the Multiplayer, I think it's better to actually have this working properly online. (so no extra software needed and running at the speed of the singleplayer) Before any changes to creatures, statistics, maps etc. are made. I have played a fair share of LAN games, but that is no real comparison with an online game where you can play versus random players, which all play different. After a while tactics will pop up which are imbalanced (as in you can only beat it by also doing it) than that's the point where re-balancing kicks in. Even than I would first check if it is a specific map problem or is it usable for all maps. After that it's imo trap/spell/creature statistics time, not before.

DragonsLover
February 2nd, 2011, 19:10
Sorry to be late.

Here's the list of all the changes I brought in creature.txt and dd1creat.txt files since the beginning. This is for the version 4 of my patch, and maybe some things in that list have been already altered so far in the next version.

- The Imp doesn't have the "leave dungeon" anger job anymore. Why it is needed? The Imp is NEVER angry!
- The Ghost now trains faster.
- The Ghost has "research" as primary job and "pray" as secondary job, and not the opposite.
- The Ghost acquires the "rebound" spell at level 4 instead of 1 (bug) and acquires "freeze" at level 10.
- The Ghost requires 1 square of "torture chamber" and 9 squares of "temple" to be attracted.
- The Ghost's salary had been slighly increased to 40 gold coins at level 1 for the few improvements above.
- The Fly has now a maximal fear. This means that it flees the enemies in sight instead of attacking them, whatever its current level.
- The Spider now trains faster.
- The Spider has a different sight in possession mode.
- The Spider has now "freeze" at level 3, "hailstorm" at level 5 and "slow" at level 7 because of the "slow" spell bug.
- The HellHound acquires the "fireball" spell at level 8.
- The HellHound can now see invisible creatures (don't we say that dogs can see ghosts?).
- The Warlock acquires the "rebound" spell at level 9 and the "word of power" spell is not at level 10.
- The Warlock doesn't increase of experience while sleeping near a gold seem (which is incomprehensible).
- The Demon Spawn becomes angry if after the AMOUNT of time of a Pay Day (10000 game turns) it hasn't been trained.
- The Demon Spawn has a different sight in possession mode.
- The Dragon increases of experience faster while sleeping near lava.
- The Vampire acquires the "hailstorm" spell at level 9 and the spells "wind" and "slow" has been exchanged because of the "slow" spell bug.
- The Vampire doesn't go to the temple for becoming angry anymore.
- The Troll now trains faster.
- The Tentacle now trains faster.
- The Tentacle acquires the "armour" spell at level 8.
- The Tentacle increases of experience faster while sleeping near water.
- The Tentacle has a different sight in possession mode.
- The Horned Reaper acquires the "missile" spell at level 3 because of the "slow" spell bug.
- The Tunneller acquires the "speed" spell at level 7.
- The Tunneller has "tunnelling" as primary job.
- The Mountain Dwarf now trains faster.
- The Mountain Dwarf requires 1 square of "treasure room" and 9 squares of "workshop" to be attracted.
- The Mountain Dwarf has "fight" as primary job, "manufacture" as secondary job and will not research anymore.
- The Barbarian requires 9 squares of "training room" to be attracted.
- The Barbarian has "fight" as primary job, "train" as secondary job and will not research anymore.
- The Giant isn't affected by wind anymore because of his weight.
- The Giant requires 25 squares of "training room" and 15 squares of "hatchery" to be attracted.
- The Thief requires 9 squares of "treasure room" and 1 square of "lair" to be attracted.
- The Thief has "explore" as primary job.
- The Archer now trains faster.
- The Archer requires 1 square of "guard post" to be attracted.
- The Archer has "guard duty" as secondary job.
- The Samurai requires 16 squares of "training room", 9 squares of "barracks" and 1 square of "torture chamber" to be attracted.
- The Wizard requires 9 squares of "library" to be attracted.
- The Monk now trains faster.
- The Monk requires 9 squares of "temple" to be attracted.
- The Monk has "pray" as secondary job (sounds logical, isn't it?).
- The "missile" and "slow" spells of the Monk have been exchanged because of the "slow" spell bug.
- The Priestess requires 9 squares of "library" and 1 square of "scavenger room" to be attracted.
- The Priestess has "scavenge" as secondary job.
- The Fairy requires 9 squares of "library" and 1 square of "lair" to be attracted.
- The Fairy will not manufacture anymore.
- The Knight acquires the "freeze" spell at level 10.
- The Knight requires 36 squares of "training room" to be attracted.
- The Knight has "train" as primary job and will not scavenge anymore.
- The Avatar acquires the "meteor" spell at level 3 and "hailstorm" at level 5.
- The Avatar requires 81 squares of "lair", 81 squares of "training room" and 81 squares of "hatchery" to be attracted.
- The Avatar has "train" as primary job and will not scavenge anymore.
- The Floating Spirit can now see invisible creatures and can go through locked doors (if that works).
- The fear of some creatures has been increased so that they can flee earlier when "Flee" is activated.
- The dexterity of all creatures has been decreased for increasing it (sounds strange, I know, but it's true).
- The creatures are now into 4 categories about the damage to inflict to the boulder trap:
1. Small creatures (Imp, Ghost, Skeleton, Beetle, Fly, Spider, Demon Spawn, Tentacle, Tunneller, Mountain Dwarf and Fairy) inflict 30 damage points.
2. Medium creatures (HellHound, Warlock, Vampire, Orc, Troll, Dark Mistress, Horned Reaper, Barbarian, Thief, Archer, Samurai, Wizard, Monk, Priestess and Knight) inflict 60 damage points.
3. Large creatures (Bile Demon and Giant) inflict 80 damage points.
4. Huge creature (Dragon only) inflict 120 damage points.
As for the Avatar, it is already immune to boulder traps. And for the Floating Spirit, it doesn't inflict damage anymore.
- The boulder trap has a bit more life points (240 points) related about the values above.
- The "armour" and "speed" creature spells have now a lower recharging time. That way, level 10 creatures will be more efficient by countering a small bug of those both spells.
- The invisible creatures now stay invisible when they attack. They only reappear when they use a personal spell. Otherwise, they reappear by themselves after some time. The reloading time of the "conceal" creature spell has even been slightly increased.
- The "cave-in" spell now cost (from weaker to stronger) :
600 - 1000 - 1200 - 1400 - 1600 - 2000 - 2200 - 2400 - 2600
- The amount of research points for the "cave-in" spell is now of 12500 instead of 25000.
- The amount of research points for the "lightning strike" spell is now of 16000 instead of 15000.
- The amount of research points for the "protect" spell is now of 18000 instead of 15000.
- The amount of research points for the "disease" spell is now of 40000 instead of 20000.
- The "alarm" trap has now 8 charges and its reloading time has been slighly decreased.
- The "lightning" trap has now 4 charges.
- The "word of power" trap has now 4 charges.
- The transfer rate percentage of the "disease" spell has been decreased.
- The damage points inflicted by the "disease" spell has been decreased.
- The manufacturing order has been changed :
01. Wooden Door
02. Alarm Trap
03. Poison Gas Trap
04. Braced Door
05. Lightning Trap
06. Lava Trap
07. Steel Door
08. Word of Power Trap
09. Magic Door
10. Boulder Trap
- The researching order for the basic rooms has been changed :
1. Treasure Room
2. Lair
3. Hatchery
4. Training Room
5. Library

As for the additional things I wanna bring, I already made a topic (http://www.keeperklan.com/threads/1489-Changes-I-wanna-bring-to-version-0.38) about that.