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Teemu Milto
April 14th, 2011, 14:41
How is Keeper FX legal? It contains the full original campaign free of charge, unlike patches that require the purchase of a legal copy in order to work.

I did buy Dungeon Keeper Collector's Edition on Ebay for 35 £ yesterday, but also downloaded Keeper FX to see what it is about. I try to avoid piracy at all costs.

Otherwise I know how it goes. Your enemies dig out something to get you in trouble for an ulterior motive. For example, if I was a famous professor of sociology in an reseach institute, and someone wanted to get me fired, they would only have to tell the press how I have illegal copies on my hard drive. I would be treated as a pirate mastermind. Let's assume that at the same time there was an incident, where a group of terrorists bombed the subway and had a hard drive full of illegal copies of subway textbooks. What a mess!

Skyman
April 14th, 2011, 15:04
Wether it is legal or not we can safely assume that any DK1 fans have bought the game back then. I bought it twice :P

mefistotelis
April 14th, 2011, 15:49
Here's an answer I wrote a few months ago to an e-mail about legal issues of KeeperFX:



KeeperFX, as it, is free and open-source.

The data files are shipped with KeeperFX CCP - which contains data copyrighted by Bullfrog (now EA), but also files created by other people (makers of the unofficial campaigns), to which no license information was attached.

I consider the status of KeeperFX to be quite simple - it's just an open-source project. It does use some of the original binary data, but this will change over time, making its status completely clear. It does not use so-called "clean-room reverse-engineering", but the code is surely very different from original implementation. In my country (Poland) doing what I did here is legal.

As about KeeperFX CCP, its package contains data which is considered abandonware, but there's no legal rights expiration in most countries, so it is... kind of illegal. If EA will contact me in that matter, I will remove all KeeperFX CCP downloads. But KeeperFX sources, binaries and configuration files will stay.


As about the story you've provided - you can't solve everything in one day, so if I were you I would first focus on getting famous ;).

Teemu Milto
April 14th, 2011, 16:01
Hello mefistotelis!

Thank you very much for this great modding project, that provides this great game free of charge.

But I am inclined to avoid piracy products at all cost, even if they are just on the grey zone. Another issue is that the game experience is not too different. The data may be changing and thus free from legal limits, but the experience of the original campaign is exactly the same as the original copy, if chosen. It resembles the question of plagiation in literacy or music. You are not supposed to have anything even in resemblance to the copyrighted material. Take poor Britney and her enemies with their ulterior motives for example. This way Keeper FX is the copyrighted original. Even if it just patched the game, it would perhaps still require buying the original. You have created this game just because you believe it is so good that we should be able to use piracy to keep playing it for years to come.

But is it legal if we have the original?

I think no-cd patches are illegal too, if they don't come from the publisher, like for example Sid Meyer's Firaxis did to Civilization 4. Unfortunately legality is the moral truth to this society, and crimes are sought be punished regardless of any other moral truth.

Maybe a mod that installed an executable automatically, that would not change the no-cd state of the original game, and would only add new things, not changing the original items in the game, that would be safe to be called legal in this Capitalist society.

I will avoid Keeper FX for my reputation. But as we know, EA isn't acting on Keeper FX just now. You can play it if you want to take the risk with the sinister law experts and their sinister schemes.

Walkerz
April 15th, 2011, 15:10
Teemu haha ur imagination made me laugh my ass off,
Like there is some conspiracy against u, jezus christ lighten up.
Bullfrog doesn't even exist anymore so they aren't getting the profit.

Besides u can't even get the game anymore in a regular shop, also 35 bucks for a way old game, u kinda got ripped off there mate.
Just saying.

Ogre
April 15th, 2011, 15:32
Bullfrog doesn't even exist anymore so they aren't getting the profit.

That's becayse Bullfrog and all DK-based things are now owned by EA.

MaxHayman
April 16th, 2011, 11:54
EA dont care. They abndoned dk back in 2000.

Teemu Milto
April 16th, 2011, 18:09
Mefistotelis, could you ask EA if they will give you the rights or a deal?

Walkerz, yes, there was a legal conspiracy against me and there could be again. That wasn't the first one either. Well, I was fired from some clubs and discriminated against in school, but that's not legal per se. That's the rule. Anybody who defies the tradition, gets enormous hatred and hysteria from the religious people. If I ever get a high position, you can be sure that even my kindergarten record will be dealt with like criminals, if it helps my enemies. And no, I am not a bad person. Legally charged persons are not all bad persons. That is just the myth that is allowing the law experts to repress the citizens by creating lies as I described. 35 £ is not a rip-off because DK1 is not available anymore, and there was a copy double that price.

Ballwinkle, how did EA abandon DK in 2000?

Mothrayas
April 16th, 2011, 18:35
By cancelling DK3 around that period and then doing nothing else with DK. (I don't count that Chinese MMO).

MaxHayman
April 17th, 2011, 16:10
EA just buy out smaller compaines....kinda sad really, but i guess its buisness

mefistotelis
June 27th, 2011, 16:45
Back to the subject, KeeperFX is now more "legal".

Due to the fact that Dungeon Keeper can now be bought on GOG, I changed the formula of KeeperFX CCP, so that it needs original files from Dungeon Keeper.

To play KeeperFX 0.40 or higher, you need original Dungeon Keeper CD, or disk image that comes with the GOG version of Dungeon Keeper.

I hope this change will satisfy people who avoided DK due to legal issues. The change should also satisfy EA Games, as KeeperFX increases popularity of their brand, while it's not intended to compete with future versions of DK (the graphics in KeeperFX will stay software-rendered as long as I'm here).

Keeper_Infernal
June 28th, 2011, 08:59
Back to the subject, KeeperFX is now more "legal".

Due to the fact that Dungeon Keeper can now be bought on GOG, I changed the formula of KeeperFX CCP, so that it needs original files from Dungeon Keeper.

To play KeeperFX 0.40 or higher, you need original Dungeon Keeper CD, or disk image that comes with the GOG version of Dungeon Keeper.

I hope this change will satisfy people who avoided DK due to legal issues. The change should also satisfy EA Games, as KeeperFX increases popularity of their brand, while it's not intended to compete with future versions of DK (the graphics in KeeperFX will stay software-rendered as long as I'm here).

That means I have to buy dk1!? Were?? :( (I live in Israel..)

Mothrayas
June 28th, 2011, 09:05
That means I have to buy dk1!? Were?? :( (I live in Israel..)

Buy the gog.com (http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/dungeon_keeper) version.

Or use whatever you got DK1 the last three times from.

Keeper_Infernal
June 28th, 2011, 10:29
Weit,is the 39a version ilegal? i dont understand nothing,what the internet police of EA wil jail me? what prevents me from using the 39a version?

Teemu Milto
July 24th, 2011, 14:39
The scam where you are charged about something apparent, like a slander, as to get you for piracy, invented by the good geniouses at the local prosecutor's office. Julian Assage is being charged with sexual assault, as to get him for whizzle blowing, that is far harder to put legally up. Mefistotelis, you should ask if it is ok from EA. Do it officially, so that if they fail to answer you, you have a fighting chance when they drag your ass to court. This is how just the legal system in the West is. But nothing has changed, EA isn't monitoring Dungeon Keeper at the moment and nobody at home will probably be punished. Nothing stops you now, and it is up to your conscience. This text is full of sarcasm because I am fighting the ambivalency of the police in general.

Keeper_Infernal
July 25th, 2011, 10:01
... Is it ilegal or not? ,and if it is ilegal,what will happen to me if i get caught..

dotted
July 25th, 2011, 14:14
... Is it ilegal or not? ,and if it is ilegal,what will happen to me if i get caught..

We can probably not be 100% certain on the legality without going to court first, but if it is illegal then I'd be the one prosecuted by EA as I'm hosting and distributing it. As you aren't distributing it EA is extremely unlikely to do anything, as the cost of prosecution would be to great to be worth it for just a single game.

Teemu Milto
July 31st, 2011, 06:54
dotted, thanks for you response, forum host! :) It makes me feel a bit safer.

Toledot
August 11th, 2011, 02:34
Oh, www.dungeonkeeper.com is for sale ^^

something tells me EA even forgot about DK as they are making BF3,4,5 and 6, fifa, 2k12, hockey, basketball, curling and whatever games... movie-ripoff-games (the name sells).

DK is abandonware if i'm not mistaken

Patrician
September 8th, 2011, 13:45
I recall EA making DK available for free download a couple of years ago, but have not been able to retrace the source. Needless to say, dungeon-keeper.net have been providing a full DL of the Gold version for a while now. Link here (http://dungeon-keeper.net/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=79&func=fileinfo&id=110).

Dungeon_Master
September 14th, 2011, 01:35
So if you download FX 40, and have Windows 7 would you be basically screwed? (Considering Windows 7 does not work with DK as it seems, aleast I think I was told that after my disc refuse to work on Windows 7), sorry I was reading one of the posts and wanted to know.

Also wanted to know, will there ever be a Dungeon Keeper Editor for KeeperFX? Since I can't install the original DK (Which I do still have the disc of, but now that disc has no longer worked just like my old favorite games from the 90's such as Creatures, I liked that game. I am surprised Sims 1 seemed to work fine with computers such as 7). I don't think EA really would care that much if DK was downloaded, I mean they don't even sell it anymore correct? So no money they probably wouldn't, and hey I play Sims 3 where EA only seems to actually care about money and not about the games (With all the bugs and stuff on each exp, I am pretty sure EA makes that)

Mothrayas
September 14th, 2011, 07:43
So if you download FX 40, and have Windows 7 would you be basically screwed? (Considering Windows 7 does not work with DK as it seems, aleast I think I was told that after my disc refuse to work on Windows 7), sorry I was reading one of the posts and wanted to know.

No, you don't need to install it. You just need to take files from the CD, which should still be possible unless it can't read the CD at all.


Also wanted to know, will there ever be a Dungeon Keeper Editor for KeeperFX?

You can use ADiKtED (http://sourceforge.net/projects/adikted/) on KeeperFX, of if you don't like the text-based interface, try to get the Official Editor (http://keeperklan.com/threads/1666-How-to-get-the-official-editor-to-work-with-KeeperFX) (downloadable here (http://keeper.lubie.org/html/dk1_tools_mapedit.php)) to work with KeeperFX (http://keeperklan.com/threads/1666-How-to-get-the-official-editor-to-work-with-KeeperFX).

Dungeon_Master
September 14th, 2011, 23:23
Yeah I like using the editor better really, feels easier. But I remember reading somewhere you had to have the original DK, and I think get the files from it (Or something?), I thought it meant install but if you are right then I guess not. However I am pretty sure DK isn't read at all, I mean like won't go into any files or anything.

Looking into it now, so I can view the folders. Hm I might give this one more try, if I can find the thread that says what files to take in order to run Editor.