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Zyraen
June 2nd, 2011, 09:14
Here's what I have in mind for a New Campaign, but basically it generally reuses some levels from the original DK / DD Campaigns, others may be new or heavily edited. The idea however was to improve the Balance between the Creatures and pit you against Enemy Keepers who control.. gasp.. Heroes! Like Skybird Trill could well be very different when you're facing the Hero Keeper on 2 fronts as well as Scavenging by the Dungeon Keeper.
Each Creature that the Evil Keeper can have now has a fairly unique role, especially the Troll which is now not just a Worker, he can be used as a Sacrifice to "upgrade" your Creatures, some of which may not be present in the pool, or be there in very low numbers (eg. 1 Vampire, 2 Mistresses, 3 Trolls)
The Imp is also now a more precious Asset to be used with care, and possibly Trained up a bit.

Campaign Framework
- Enemy Dungeon Keepers are now often replaced by Hero Keepers. Naturally, they are allied with Heroes.
- Heroes have been tweaked to adjust their training cost / pay more competitively compared to the Dungeon Keeper. Some heroes have been given more Skills in some areas
- There will generally be max 1-2 Gem sides for the Player on each Map. No MORE.
- Training for "Conversion" is now more viable at level 10 instead of level 11 (God, that takes LONG!)

======================

The old Tweaks / Proposed changes have been replaced by the following notes from the Readme on the Creature & Hero Changes / Tweaks

Changes / Tweaks to the Player Dungeon Keeper

Most levels start you with the following Creatures in the pool with a Portal Max of 20-24. Changes to the portal availability will generally be reflected in the game.

"Starting" Creatures
- 8 Demonspawn
- 8 Bile Demons
- 8 Warlocks
- 8 Orcs (5x5 Training Room Reqd)
- 4 Trolls (max level 4)
Demonspawn have an improved Training Value of 3.

"Later" Creatures
- 2 Dragons ( 1x1 Barracks )
- 2 Dark Mistresses (3x3 Torture Chamber)
- 2 Vampires ( 4x4 Graveyard)
- 4 Tentacles ( 4x4 Temple reqd )
All of them have Training Value of 3, except Tentacles have a Training Value of 5.

NONE of the creatures above will train automatically.
All Levels will have 1 Increase Level Special.
Note that IMPS can now be trained more easily (they have a training value of 2 up from 1).

Remember that throwing a Creature out the Portal is as good as killing it - they will NEVER return. So you can use this info to manage your game.

I'm currently also considering whether to reduce the number of Bile Demons from the Pool.

In Some Detail
- Demonspawns now have Missile 3, Flame Breath 5, Heal 7, Speed 9. They also have 475 Life (up from 325) as adjusted to make them closer to Hellhounds. They take half the normal XP to advance from level 9 to 10, and the other half will turn them into level 5 Dragons
- Warlocks now have Rebound instead of Sight at level 8
- Trolls are now generally used for Sacrifice and max at level 4
- Dragons now match the Bile Demons in Movement Speed
- Dark Mistresses have lost their Haste spell
- Vampires now resurrect from level 8 onwards. Their pay has been reduced. Vampires now need more XP for levels 8-10 only. (in the original game, they have Training Value 4 but a lot more XP required for levels 4-10)
- Horned Reapers are now exactly as healthy and tough as Bile Demons, and about 25-30% more effective than Samurai. Their pay has been reduced.

Note that the Temple cannot be gained by Research, so Tentacles will come in very late (usually after you sacrifice your Trolls).

NOTE : you may wish to plan how to select your Creatures for each level. With fewer creatures, less margin for error (tossing a creature ou means it never returns), some planning is probably a very Good idea.
For example, you may wish to have 8 Demonspawn to become 8 Dragons, but...
- will you run out of Gold before then?
- Will the Enemy become very Strong if you leave him alone?
- Will you be attacked and find it difficult to defend yourself?

Changes / Tweaks to the Heroes & Enemy Keeper

Most of your Enemy Keepers will use Heroes as their units, and naturally they are allied to the Hero Player (white).

On the Hero Keepers side, they generally have
- Barbarians (vs Orcs)
- Wizards (vs Warlocks)
- Giants (vs Bile Demons)
- Fairies (vs Warlocks / Dark Mistress)
Like Demonspawn, Barbarians have an improved Training Value of 3.

"Later" Creatures
- Samurai (req Barracks) (vs Horned Reaper, roughly 2:1)
- Knights (req Barracks) (vs Dragon)
- Monks (req Temple)
- Priestesses (req Temple)
The above 4 Creatures are all of Training Value 3.

To reduce AI inefficiency, all the Hero Creatures will Train automatically.

Note that when the Hero Keeper gains his Barracks, he loses access to Barbarians and Giants.
The Heroes do not research Prison, Torture Chamber, Graveyard. The Heroes can build Temple, and Scavenger Room. Left alone long enough, they will (theoretically) Scavenge the White Heroes (if any are present) to their side.

Unlike you, the Hero Keepers generally have a lot of creatures in their pool, more than enough for multiple, repeated skirmishes against you.

Most of the Heroes have not been changed much, except
- Barbarian now is closer to an Orc and has a faster movement rate. He gains Rebound at level 9.
- Giant has normal movement rate, 900 Life (up from 650), Armor at level 3 and Speed at level 8. They are less accurate than even Bile Demons, though.
- Wizards have their abilities adjusted to gain more useful ones at lower level. Their damage output still cannot match Warlocks at low levels, until they gain Hailstorm at level 7.
- Fairies now have similar Life to Priestesses but less Armor & Defence.
- Wizards & Fairies now get hungry less often. This addresses the "far-away Hatchery" AI problem
- Samurai have 800 Life (up from 700) and gain Haste at level 5. They have no Sight.
- Knights have their Defence adjusted to 50 (up from 30)
- Monks now have Rebound and are a ranged unit. They have similar Life as a Wizard but more Armor.
- Priestesses no longer use Poison Gas but use Drain. They gain Drain / Healing much earlier, and will still Wind when faced with Gas.
- Various Salaries and Training costs have been tweaked, generally using as reference the "vs" creature on the other side.

To account for the random portal attraction of the Heroes, Barbarians & Giants can now research, but poorly. They will still train on their own.

Overall, although initially they are not very strong, the Heroes are designed intentionally to OVERWHELM you if you should try and Turtle. They not only have a higher Portal Max (about 30-35) and significantly superior Ranged Firepower, they also have superior units in more numbers ( you can have 2 Dragons 2 Vampires 2 Mistresses, they can have potentially unlimited numbers of Knights, Samurai, etc)

from the Readme on other Changes to Rooms, Spells, Traps, Doors, Recipes

Room, Spell, Trap Changes

The following Rooms have been removed / changed
- Guardpost : only present on levels with little water and Bridges are not required
- Prison : removed
- Temple : you cannot research this, you can only find it. After finding it, you still CANNOT build it.
- Graveyard : you may no longer raise Vampires from it. Well actually you can, it just takes 100 bodies and each one takes a very very very very very long time to Decay.
- Scavenger Room : the Enemy may have it, but not you.

The following Spells have been removed / changed
- Speed Monster : removed. Your Enemies may have this spell.
- Must Obey : available on earlier levels (tentatively)
- Hold Audience : removed
- Conceal : removed. abusable as the AI can't handle it.
- Lightning : removed. Yes I've taken PAINS that not even your Enemies may use it
- Cave In : removed
- Chicken : removed. Your Enemies may have this spell.
- Disease : removed. On occasions, your enemies may have it
- Armageddon : removed
- Destroy Walls : removed. sometimes available on the Map

The following Doors / Traps are removed / changed
- Braced Doors : removed. You can use Wooden Doors for your own Dungeon, Steel Doors for defence.
- Magic Doors : generally not available to you. the enemy may have it.
- Alarm Traps : removed
- Boulder Traps : removed
- Lava Traps : removed
- Word of Power : sometimes present, sometimes not
Note that all Traps / Doors have been reduced to 10 Gold for selling, except Magic Door remains at 1500.

Temple Recipes

The following Recipes are notified to you in the first Campaign Level, but just for completeness.
- Troll + Orc : Dark Mistress
- Troll + Demonspawn : Vampire
You will probably NEED to use these Recipes, especially in the Tougher Levels.

The following Recipe has been Removed
- Imp Sacrifice : Cheaper Imps
Abusable to spam 255 Creature limit. However, Imps are now more easy to Train.

As a Note - for ALL the levels, there are ample "Information" drops that inform you what might be coming. The exact details may not be known, but you should have enough information to not have to refer back to this thread or any walkthrough while playing the Map.

Edit : also changed the Topic Title

Metal Gear Rex
June 2nd, 2011, 20:57
There's so many things wrong in this new "balance" that I don't even know where to begin. You clearly don't have as much of an understanding on the Units and how they should function, nor how to properly balance something. Most of DK1 is relatively balanced as it is, in terms of Units anyways.

I do have one question, do you plan on making this yourself somehow or are you just planting some idea for someone else to work on once you have all the details thought out?

Zyraen
June 3rd, 2011, 00:11
I do have one question, do you plan on making this yourself somehow or are you just planting some idea for someone else to work on once you have all the details thought out?
I'm actually just doing it up myself in KeeperFX. I did make Vampire Conversion take forever back when I was a kid, resulting in a very nice trophy cabinet, I'm sure that's not a problem for KeeperFX.

My first testrun where I put myself against a 0 type Computer with access to 5 Hero Creatures (Thief, Giant, Barbarian, Wizard, Archer) did hit some bumps, like how the AI didn't train Archers and Wizards, and instead focused on Barbarians and Giants (or maybe they just waltzed in the Training Room on their own), which doesn't look too good long run.


There's so many things wrong in this new "balance" that I don't even know where to begin. You clearly don't have as much of an understanding on the Units and how they should function, nor how to properly balance something. Most of DK1 is relatively balanced as it is, in terms of Units anyways.
Care to share your understanding?
Default Dark Mistress was like, waaay up on the DPS scale, I understand Lightning had Damage reduced a little in KeeperFX. And Warlocks without Rebound made them generally short lived in games where most Heroes were using Rebound (even high level Dwarves, like geez...)

One of the issues I was trying to address here was when I tried out a Multiplayer game against the AI. It dawned on me that with a few bad draws from the Portal and a low Portal max, it made a significant difference to getting something like Dragons straight from the Portal, as compared to Beetles / Spiders / Flies for just the first 4-5 Creatures, can easily make 1-2 levels of Training Difference. For Portal Speeds of about 500-600, meaning 25 to 30 seconds per Creature, that's the first 2 minutes of Gameplay.

I also realised that due to the Imps being the way they are, the AI never really "treasures" them, making the AI very vulnerable to attack-and-kill Imps, or the common attack-and-imprison Imps. I'm still mulling over how to resolve this, maybe by limiting the Dig_Greedy_Gold and putting a Gem in easy reach. Alternatively, simply a scripted trigger.

BTW, Horned Reapers by default are really really strong. I can solo Batezek with one transferred Horned Reaper (and occasional Load/Save) and some good Dungeon planning. With that Gem, I could probably try to solo it starting with a single level 1 Horned Reaper.

A few other "General" Notes, for the original DK1, since they are not at all related to Creature Stats etc
- Lava Traps and Boulder Traps are very powerful. Not much to explain.
- Turtle Tactics are very common. Used with Gems, its usually Turtle, then Attack
- 256 Creature limit aside, the Gross Availability of the Imp after you get Temple basically puts a high Make Safe on
- If you combine a constant Gem + Turtle with a portal limit, understanding that dead Creatures return to Pool, after losing a Creature down from your Portal Max, you could just wait till you get the right one, train back to level 10, then proceed forward again
- Creature Gaining rooms are fearsomely powerful. Notably the Prison + Torture Chamber, Graveyards and Scavenger Rooms. Scavenger Rooms notably are almost completely uncapped figures, since the Enemy keeps gaining more Creatures back, you could scavenge them over, bypassing your own Portal Limit, and as long as his is kept under his Max, you stand a good chance of gaining a potentially infinite number of Creatures.
I do have a Save Game of Skybird Trill with maybe 70-80 Minions before the final attack by the Avatar (including Heroes), even then I limited myself to 8 Vampires (easy to pick up)
- Due to the passive nature of the PLAYER_GOOD, with good planning and some drops in the right places, and the general slow walking speed of Heroes, its fairly easy to disperse large bands of Enemy Heroes
- Even taking a horde of them head-on is possible around a Corner. I did an experiment in Batezek, where after turtling for a long time, I simply let them into my Guardpost area where my Samurai, Monks (from Steal Hero + Scavenger Room), Dragons, Bile Demons were waiting. I did something similar in Kanasko as well, blocking off the way to my Dungeon with Lava Traps, Destroy Walls to the enemy Heart and killing it, before rebuilding bridge over my Dungeon Heart. The ensuing Swarm was very fun (and made me realise Vampires can actually be scared of Fairies!)
- This "large number of Heroes turning a Corner to reach your Dungeon Heart and die in snack-size solos and pairs without reinforcements" can easily be circumvented by making them part of a Hero Keeper's army.

Considering Deeper Dungeons at some / many points have addressed most of these issues, I would be tempted to say that Bullfrog agrees.

There's some other ideas I have, like putting Gems in relatively un-protectable areas, meaning that you have to pull all your Imps (again, an Imp limit makes this less of a hassle) out before a battle, and you want to efficiently execute the Battle so you can go right back to mining. An inefficient battle (eg. using 8 Vampires or 8 Dragons) in those areas will result in less Gold between Waves.

======================

The really tricky bit on Balance is a separate question of Creature Role / Superiority & Obsolency that is in essence, fairly simple to understand.

A) Given a General Situation (you have no idea what what you're facing), and you can only pick one type of Creature for the entire Game (no workshop btw), and no Possession, which would you choose? Dragon, Bile Demon, Warlock, Orc, Troll, Dark Mistress, Vampire, Horned Reaper
--> Depending on Gold constraint, it will generally be 2 choices only - Dark Mistress or Horned Reaper. If you're a bit more concerned on Versatility, Dragon

B) Given another General Situation where you've got a Serious Time Constraint (say, 15 minutes before a Hero Invasion on your Dungeon Heart), with no workshop or Possession, which Creatures would you choose? Dragon, Bile Demon, Warlock, Orc, Troll, Dark Mistress, Vampire, Horned Reaper
Based on your Creature choice, you have to Research to the Relevant Room (if required. let's say you have unlimited Research Creatures coming through the portal with the efficiency of Warlocks but can't fight) to access that Creature, and only then will it arrive through the Portal, then you train it up and fight.
--> Almost uniformly everyone ends up picking Dragon. Possibly Warlock if they had Rebound, but they still train slowly.
--> Of course if time were extended infinitely, you'd end up with the same options as the First Choice. Again, achievable by Turtling.

Hence I would argue that DK1 is basically, not very well "balanced".

In Starcraft for example, I could build up an early army of say, Zerglings / Marines / Zealots. When the time came to spam mid / higher level units, I would simply send them off to death while building up the newer, stronger units.
In DK1, Training is a barrier, along with the early availability of Dragons and Bile Demons, makes training some of the mid-level units meaningless, especially if they cannot be converted in the Temple to a stronger version.
eg. Orcs
Assuming I can (Turtle and) get Dark Mistresses in the same number, and Dark Mistresses workshop only marginally slower. There's also Bile Demons who can fight and workshop just as well, and get trained right from the beginning, even if they do Train slower. I haven't looked at the scripts in detail, but I think Deeper Dungeons generally limits the number of Mistresses you can obtain.
eg. Warlocks
They go out to make room for Mistresses, and Dragons who are trained up will Research much faster. High level Warlocks can't be used properly against Heroes, many of whom have Rebound, and even against Enemy Keepers there's a concern about Wind. With their multiple Spells, facing Rebound and casting Wind aside, Warlocks do indeed have better DPS than Mistress (I think)

If these units cannot be "upgraded", the main use for training them is to provide an initial Support to Dragons etc. This is of course, moot if we can Turtle. On the other hand, I would think that the following Creatures although not the best, are decently "balanced" enough in terms of Availability (Vampires are late but can be created in numbers), Usefulness, and Upgradeability (for Bile Demon).
eg. Bile Demons
This is a questionable comparison, though their early tanking role can easily be superceded by Dragons, but they do hit Harder. Also, they are still generally kept for Workshop competence, early Gas AoE does decent all round damage, have immunity to Wind (ie Priestess), and of course, the Horny Sacrifice.
eg. Vampire
While the Dragon is a better tank and the Mistress (even Warlock) does more DPS, their niche of Ranged Tanking, tying the enemy up a long time / general unkillability by Melee units, and Immortality in case of mistakes, they fill a special role. Plus, due to sheer surviveability, they allow you (the Player) to go on doing your Keeper things while they mop up the enemy. Last but not least, they come in generally unlimited Numbers, constrained only by your Gold, the perfect "last minute" stand-ins to push your Creature Count significantly (eg 3-6 Vampires) beyond your Portal Max. Vampires do royally well against most enemy Dungeon Keepers (typically there is less ranged support), but suffer against Freezers and heavy Ranged fire (level 10 Fairies are both)

EDIT : The Heroes Keeper's side is not meant to perfectly Balance against a Dungeon Keeper's side.
In the sense that the Units should be sufficient to have some Competition with the Player in Early / Mid-game, yet over time especially Late Game, it actually "distorts" and skews the battle more and more in the Heroes favor, achieved primarily with heavier Ranged support.
This line-up is by No Means what I would consider giving to the Player if he could play a Hero Keeper.

Zyraen
June 28th, 2011, 17:48
I have completed the first level, a Remake of Moonbrush Wood :)
830

You probably remember the original as the realm with the 4 Wizards and the 4 "Golden" Question-marks.
Unlike most other ROTK Levels, Moonbrush Wood still has no Enemy Keeper. Some Lava is now Water so you can't just sell your Bridge and keep the Heroes from reaching your Dungeon Heart. The Golden Question Marks have become Exclamation Marks.
There is now only one Gem at the end of the Eastern winding passage, which is more competitively unreachable.
The 4 Libraries as well are still present, but now the 4 "Wizards" are scaled slightly, so the room nearest you is easiest, the two in the middle are slightly harder, and the one that is furthest away is hardest. I try to make use of the Libraries and Creatures etc to guide on the Rule Changes for the Campaign, hopefully it is simple and clear, so no one has to ever refer to some TXT file or something to remember the build order.

The Heroes spawn at a relatively decent level and remain bunched up in parties, hopefully that'll be just enough to make things interesting for you as you expand seeking gold. You can take a breather before you claim the Temple, train up your Creatures if any are still left, but that will only be a while since I tried to pace the game such that it shouldn't take too long to get everyone to a high level. There's also an Increase Level on the Temple itself.

After you claim the Temple, there are a few attacks at intervals of about 5 minutes, and I actually had to reload some fights to keep from losing Units which would be costly since the "finale" involves a few waves coming rapidly.

Meantime, I had to change the "Vampire" sacrifice formula to Demonspawn + Troll ( the Gods seem to hate Warlocks...), and Dragons cannot be obtained via sacrifice anymore, just get them by training up Demonspawn. The original Demonspawn is still too weak in practice, so I'm experimenting a little to "blend" them with Hellhounds, I thought that was more appropriate since Demonspawn now shoot Fireballs and use Flame Breath as well as Heal. They retain the Hellhound "Speed", but lose them on becoming large, cumbersome Dragons.

Anyone would like to try out and comment on the balance? :) Hope to hear from you.

Zyraen
June 30th, 2011, 19:28
839
This is a simple Remake of Tulipscent.

The most noticeable trait is that whole centre area, including the Horned Reapers and all the traps etc, are removed.
As their substitute, you have 10 Steel Doors you may place around, and you do start with Workshop researched.
The Corridor now belongs to your Enemy, not to you, and one end opens with a Magic Door to a Hero fortress.

Other minor changes are the removal of your Gems, and some tweaking of the hero fortress on both sides such that the enemy cannot just dig through it.

Your units aren't as crummy as the original Tulipscent, but you do have fewer of them than normal ROTK, just 4 warlocks and 4 bile demons.
You do have 8 Orcs and Demonspawn along with Trolls that can be used to upgrade if you are able to secure the Temple.
Like the original Tulipscent, the Enemy Keeper starts with premade rooms and will find ways to try and attack you.

The Hero Spawns will eventually get around the water, even if you try to keep them out, they will eventually dig their way into the enemy Keeper's territory (who they are allied with) and attack you. Unlike the original Tulipscent, there will be regular spawns of Hero Groups after a certain point.

Hope it'll be interesting for you as it was for me :) very fun playing through it, quite harrowing at times.

My main concern is as your Enemy has also lost his 2 Level 8 Orcs. It might be easier to rush him, I've considered giving him 2 level 6 Samurai as replacement (Barbarians are actually closer stat-wise to Orcs), but I'm worried it'll be too much for the Player to handle. It'll be better if I can get some playtesters advice.

As another note... is there too much Gold lying around? playing through I never felt any urgency to get the Gems, since I had secured most of the gold on the map.

Anyway, this is only the 2nd level, meant to be warm-up to get you acquainted on the idea that if you can get to them quickly, you may be able to kill them before they build up sizeably. Oh and I've taken the liberty of allowing Guardpost for this, since there's very little Water and you can always reinforce them out rather than Guardpost, plus no Bridge.

Zyraen
July 2nd, 2011, 05:43
840
The Remake of Woodly Rhyme, and plays decently difficult.
For now, this is the final map.

- The most obvious reduction is the removal of the huge starting space you normally get, so you get to build your Dungeon the way you want it.
- There is also the removal of 2 Gems near you and relocation to the "outside" area. All the Neutral Skeletons and Ghosts have been removed as well.
- Other Removal includes the lattice of traps for the Locate Hidden World, the Magic Door with the Transfer Creature, and all the Specials have been removed sothat there is only one Increase Level left in the central complex.
- A Neutral Temple has been provided in the open area, competitively near the Green Keeper so you will often have to contest for it, until you are are ready to use the Temple for Sacrifice. ( note if you let the Temple fall, high chance Green Keeper will come knocking on your Gems) During this time, Blue Keeper will also likely be trying to break into your main dungeon itself.
- To help the AI build their training Room near the Hatchery, their Portal has been walled up. This prevents them from digging from the Portal side. From some tests, the AI has been able to build up to 3 training rooms, all 5x5, to train their growing number of minions. Unlike in Tulipscent, they are much more competitive.

Apart from the standard fun of managing with limited gold until its time to break out into the open and be attacked by 1 Knight10 and 2 Samurai10, and also exposing you to the enemy Keepers, I try to incorporate the following ideas in
- After you defeat the first Knight, there will be a hero party (barbarian, samurai, wizard, fairy) every 15 minutes attacking from the water. Every time this party spawns, the "build-up" area increases by 1 party, to a max of 3 parties.
- This "build-up" party spawned is only 3 Heroes for the first 60 minutes of the map, but after 60 minutes it becomes a party of 6 heroes. In other words, depending on how quickly you attack and kill the first Knight, you can end up with a "Build Up" of 9-18 Heroes, or even less if you can kill both enemy Keepers within 45 minutes of breaking into the water.
- Defeating one Keeper results in Hero spawns (2 samurai 1 wizard 1 priestess 1 fairy) from their Dungeon Heart every 15 minutes
- Defeating both Keepers ends the Dungeon Heart spawns, and the Lord of the Land arrives in the "Build-Up" area with 4 companions plus his handy little tunneller. So this final "wave" will be anywhere from 15-24 Heroes, against your 24 Creatures.
- Depending on how fast / slow you are, it may be wise to prepare some traps before killing the 2nd Keeper. You do have Sight of Evil, so use it to assess the build-up area, it IS pretty obvious.

Good Luck!

PS : As per advice from MGR, I've taken some effort to limit the number of "Build-Up" parties that will spawn. There is still some incentive for moving quickly though, provided you are strong enough to take out the Knight and Samurai, since it really reduces the strength of the final attack significantly.

( I just noticed there is a Dungeon Special beside the start point, don't worry, that's a Reveal Map I use to monitor when testing, and will be removed )

Zyraen
July 13th, 2011, 04:04
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad259/zyraen/Keeper/map00081.jpg
Remake of Korros Tor, and this is quite-to-very difficult.
I actually spent more time playing this map than building it, lol, and it is fun, but it sure is hard.

To be fair though, I don't consider ROTK one of those anal-retentive Campaigns where you have to pick up your imps or have them all run to be killed by creatures / traps / set off triggers that screw you up royally, so like for Tulipscent I have included a few wooden doors for your use. Unlike in Tulipscent, they won't stop any invaders for any amount of time at all.

- unlike other maps, almost all the creatures in the central part of Korros Tor remain identical to the original
- naturally, all the freebies (free imps, horned reaper, reveal map) have been removed
- the Steal Hero South of the Gem has been replaced by an Increase Level, the Northeast Keep just holds a Temple and nothing else, and the Eastern Keep holds a Destroy Walls
- as per standard ROTK, no lava traps, guardposts, boulder traps. in other words, no way to just wave goodbye to the heroes.
- the entrances to the Enemy Keeper areas have been altered to make it more "sensible" than letting you gorge on a buffet of dead imps

Invasion Notes
- the only "addition" to the original creatures are 5 Tunneller spawns, they basically show up and dig to you.
- the 1st one digs from the lake surrounding you, the 2nd from the south of the eastern keep, releasing 2 groups of archers/giants/barbarians, and the 3rd from the north of the same keep, releasing another 2-3 groups. the 4th one digs from the gem releasing the 2 knights each with DEF 50 and Rebound (man, they are tough...) and the 5th from the South of the gems.
- If you don't kill a White creature within 5 minutes of the 1st tunneller spawn, all the remaining 4 tunnellers spawn at ONCE, leaving you surrounded with enemies you have all but no chance of killing
- You have a portal max of 24 creatures, from Testing it is all but impossible to train up all of them (not enough Gold). You will have to decide what you can work with, and you'll probably be engaging the enemy somewhere around level 5-7 per Creature. So yes, you'll be pitting level 5-7 Creatures against level 8-10 Heroes, and unless you do something about it, they will come in clumps of 10+ Heroes or more.
- You have generally limited time for traps, so my personal advice is to tunnel wisely.

Enemy Keepers
- for your sanity's sake, and also to allow Aggressive (0) Computer Players who won't actually eat you for lunch while you're trying to build up enough trained Creatures to fight off the Heroes, I have walled off the Enemy Keepers.
- the Southern Keeper will probably get a Scavenger Room along the way and start scavenging creatures. Don't be surprised if he exceeds his 32 Portal Max
- When the times comes (either you get your Gem, or Destroy Walls, or time runs out), they will both Break-Out simultaneously withe Hero Invaders, so be attentive
- from testing, their training rate is slowed down due to having given them workshops, but they will still generally be about level 5-7 (slow trainers) and 7-8 (fast trainers) at the point you break out. You may want to dig in to train more, but they will also get stronger.
- after the Keepers "Break Out", the Enemy Keepers will receive 1 "free" level 9 creature every 15 minutes and 2 after 45 minutes, on top of their Portal Max. there will also be invaders every 15 minutes, so be on your toes
- both Keepers also get one party of "free" level 9 reinforcements after you reduce them to about half of their portal max. If you manage to kill the Keeper without killing his creatures, this band of goons show up as White heroes.
- like in Woodly Rhyme, when 1 Keeper is killed, his dungeon heart will also spawn Hero Parties every 15 mins or so

When all is done, 4 simple little bands, all nicely spread out, attack you.
Kill them and Win.
The ending is probably mindnumbingly easy compared to what you've been through.

PS : for an unknown reason, level 9 White Giants in the Eastern Hero Keep start at max Life, but gradually reduce to about 2/3 of their max Life. Does anyone know why?

Zyraen
July 14th, 2011, 10:44
I've been considering this for some time, and have decided on it since there is little choice...

One of the concepts behind ROTK has been to provide you simple tools for micro-managing your portal. In the recent 2 levels, especially Korros Tor, this has proven to be desperately important as your time is ticking quite rapidly from the time that you invade the enemy. Batezek likewise, where you are reliant on Demonspawn initially and don't really have an incentive to handle other creatures.

That being said, Demonspawn have become a problem in that they take up precious time whenever they enter the Dungeon, yet they are generally useful once the initial group has commenced training. They are competent stand-in Researchers, suitable place-holders for Trolls, and if trained are able to catch up rapidly with the creatures that have started training much earlier, and when trained they provide decent support. If not returned back to the portal, they are also upgradeable into Dragons via Training or get sacrificed at the Temple for Vampires.

To this end, I've changed Demonspawn slightly to take the place of the previous Dragon, which requires 25 Tiles of Treasure, and the Dragon itself remains reliant on the Barracks. This should make it much more easier to ensure that you get the right mix you want out of your first 10-15 Creatures.

The first Map - Moonbrush Wood - will also be modified slightly to reflect this information inside the game.

Zyraen
September 6th, 2011, 13:45
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad259/zyraen/Keeper/map00093.jpg
Remake of Batezek, this is likely an extremely hard map and probably the hardest of the series.
I haven't actually tested it yet, but anyway, here's the idea.

You start without a premade Dungeon (unlike original Batezek) in the centre, which does NOT have a Gem.
You start with Must Obey spell.
The Centre of the map has a Circle of Caverns around it, which are divided into 3 segments

Each of the 3 Segments has
- 1 Hero Gate
- 1 Neutral "Normal" Unit (Orc, Warlock, Bile Demon) at level 4 near the Hero Gate
- 1 Enemy Hero Keeper with 1 Gem
- Each Keeper is separated from the Hero Gate area by Impenetrable Rock, and a single block of dirt
- Each Keeper has 1 "Elite" Unit (Dark Mistress, Vampire, Dragon) at level 6
- Each Keeper has a Scavenger Room
- Each of the 3 Segments is directly connected to an adjacent segment by a "Passageway" sealed by Reinforced Walls and an Iron Door
- The following bonuses are in each "Passageway" - Make Safe, Increase Level, 5x5 Temple

The Hero Invasion starts at an identical amount of time as you would have from the start of Batezek, except that the first party does not spawn, and instead of One Invading Party in Batezek, you get TWO, and they are about 2-3 levels higher. Each party spawns from 2 of the 3 Hero Gates.
The "final" Batezek waves are delayed slightly, 3 groups of 8 level 10 Barbarians spawn from each Segment.
After that, they are followed by another 3 groups, only now each group is of 8 level 10 Monks.

After these "Final" Waves, you get 3 Level 10 Parties of "Adventurers", from each of the 3 Hero Gates, every 8-10 minutes.
These waves keep Spawning until you destroy all the 3 Hero Keepers.

Finally, at the end, there are 3 waves each of 3 parties of Heroes led by Knights, until you've killed all of them. Then you win.

=================

ENEMY KEEPERS

Each Hero Keeper starts with a lowly Portal Max of 16 Creatures
Each Hero Keeper starts with only Fairies, Wizards, Giants. Not even Barbarians.

After you defeat the first Hero Keeper, the remaining two get
- Speed and Protect Monster spells
- access to Knights, Samurais, Monks, Priestesses
- access to Barracks (for Knights & Samurai) and to Temple (Priestesses, Monks)
- a Defence party of some level 5-6 Heroes
- Portal Max of 32 Creatures

After you defeat the second Hero Keeper, the remaining one gets
- Portal Max of 48 Creatures
- a Defence party of level 8 Heroes

================

PUTTING IT TOGETHER

In the fine print, this is how it goes
- you can't turtle in the middle because you have no gems
- even if you CAN turtle, you will likely be left with only Demonspawn and Trolls, as all your other Creatures are scavenged by the Enemy
- you will likely need to "Rush" one enemy Keeper to obtain your Gems, and your more important "Normal" unit
- you will then try to fortify out the rest, if you are defensive. Alternatively, you will invade the second enemy Keeper
- Each Keeper you "invade" will open your realm up to even more invasions as for each Player you attack, you get more exposure to 1 more Hero Gate
- You can also try to "turtle" into 1 segment of the map only, and you may or may not choose to engage in a "Scavenging" tug of war with the other Keepers.
- You can still use Traps to weaken the strength of the invading Hero Units
- Turtling indefinitely will make it bad for you as there will be high level Heroes spawning repeatedly after the Barbarian / Monk

EDIT : Bold Changes made after first round of playtesting.
The default Batezek spawns are woefully weak compared to what level Creatures the Hero Keepers / you would have, so I have added 2-3 levels to make it somewhat more comparable. The Image here is not yet updated.