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View Full Version : Questions about stuff you can find in the game files? This is a terrble title.



Spatulade
July 27th, 2012, 01:39
Hi, I hope this is in the right section, my apologies if it isn't. I have a few questions relating to features in the game that unfortunately I cannot check myself, as I have Dungeon Keeper FX installed, so I won't know how much has been changed.

1) Attraction Criteria for Heroes.

Do the Heroes in Dungeon Keeper have any specific attraction criteria? It's been ages since I've played a non-FX version of the game. I don't think they do, as I've played a Heroes campaign and random Heroes just got fired out of my Portal constantly. I was looking through some files, and I noticed some Heroes had Room requirements (e.g. Archers required 1 tile of Guard Post to be attracted).

Basically, do Heroes have any attraction requirements in vanilla Dungeon Keeper?

(on a side note, has DK FX changed any room requirements for creatures? I saw some for Ghosts and Horned Reapers, but I don't know if they were included in FX, or were there to begin with but inaccessible due to them not being in the pool.)

2) Cut content (especially creature spells)

I don't know how much there is in the way of cut content in DK, I don't expect any creatures that never made it lying around somewhere semi-coded or anything. I remember hearing about a creature spell version of the Chicken keeper spell, but I don't know if this is true. Whether it is or not, are there any other cut creature spells? I saw a lot in some ingame files, quite a few I didn't recognise. Are there any cut keeper spells, rooms or traps and doors? If so, what can you guys tell me about them/where can I find out about them?

Thank you for your time guys, if I think of anything else, I'll try to add it on (if that's okay with you :) )

Metal Gear Rex
July 27th, 2012, 05:04
KeeperFX uses DragonsLover's patch, so no it is not the same as the exact original. Heroes originally had no attraction data but I can't remember if Creature attraction data was changed. However, spell sets and other Creature statistics have been changed in numerous ways. It's been a while since I played or looked at DL's patch as the last time I played DK1 was when I was testing out my own patch.

DragonsLover
July 27th, 2012, 21:45
1) All heroes attraction requirements have been removed since, but my old patch still kept my previous changes. Silly me.
2) Chicken and Disease creature spells exist, but I think they have been removed simply because they're too powerful and unbalance the game. As for cut creatures, I once saw a strange red creature thing on an alpha version screenshot, but I think it was the "old" version of the demon spawn. As for all the unused files that come along with the game, they're simply files used for the alpha version of the game.

Spatulade
July 28th, 2012, 18:55
Thanks for your help guys :)

Do you know anything else about the cut content, or is it only what you yourselves have heard? Is it possible to access it or find out more?
Also, is there anywhere that hosts some of the game files or such? As I have Windows 7 64-bit, I can't actually install the game properly, so I'm using FX, and I want to look at the original files to see what is different.

DragonsLover
July 29th, 2012, 22:50
Download the Goodies CD (http://dungeon-keeper.net/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=79&func=fileinfo&id=155) of the Collector edition of Dungeon Keeper. You should have screenshots and movies about the Alpha version of the game. I remember also getting a CD about Bullfrog which contains more stuff about the Alpha version of the game, notably videos. Check this section (http://dungeon-keeper.net/index.php?option=com_hwdvideoshare&task=viewcategory&Itemid=108&cat_id=23) to watch them.

What happened to that Alpha version? It was replaced by the final version. Only Bullfrog may still have copies of that early version.

Finally, still on DK.net, you can get the Dungeon Keeper Gold image CD. If you want to explore the cut files, you can use DKTools (http://dungeon-keeper.net/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=79&func=select&id=28) which allow to browse through the sprites.

Spatulade
July 30th, 2012, 17:01
Thank you very much for your help :) now I have the original files I can find out stuff for myself. Thank you for the files, and for the information about the Alpha :)

Spatulade
August 1st, 2012, 21:23
Sorry for the double-post but I've found some interesting stuff while pulling the game apart (but I'm sure you guys probably know it all anyway :P)

Icons for the Chicken creature spell do exist, but oddly, aren't the same as the keeper spell. Instead of using a chicken as an icon, the creature spell uses images of a white egg. There also appears to be images of a whip grouped in with the creature spells. Does anyone know what that could do? There are lots of ideas, such as a whip weapon for the Mistress, a way to convert creatures faster during torturing by hitting them (similar to what Mistresses do in DK2), or perhaps to tie in with the Must Obey spell, a way of hypnotising enemy creatures? What are everyone's thoughts?

DragonsLover
August 2nd, 2012, 00:21
The icon for the Chicken spell is wrong. I think it was meant to be the icon for the Light spell, which exists, but doesn't do anything. The icon for the Chicken spell is supposed to be like the Keeper "Turn to chicken" spell.

As for the "Whip" creature spell, I have no idea. Perhaps an idea that was planned. Perhaps something to the Dark Mistress to speed up her allies or make the Torture Chamber more efficient? Nobody knows, excepted Bullfrog.

But why is this important?

Spatulade
August 2nd, 2012, 01:59
Really? Wow, how do you know all this? Do you know how the Light spell may have worked? Where does it 'exist'?
It's not important as such, I'm just wondering, and honestly, I find it really interesting.

Sorry for being a pain :P

Metal Gear Rex
August 2nd, 2012, 02:04
Really? Wow, how do you know all this? Do you know how the Light spell may have worked? Where does it 'exist'?
It's not important as such, I'm just wondering, and honestly, I find it really interesting.

Light Spell could be applied to Possession and Hero Party Leaders. If you notice, they're both illuminating.

DragonsLover
August 3rd, 2012, 00:09
For the light spell, simply write LIGHT amongst the spells you give to a creature. But you'll see it doesn't seem to do anything.
Like MGR said, I think the light spell is reserved for Possession and party leaders since we can see them being lighted.
And no, don't feel sorry. You're not a pain. It's okay. Like you, I was curious why you asked all these questions. :) The reason why I know much about this game is because I played it often and like you, I was curious to understand how it works.

friscmanseby
August 5th, 2012, 19:41
I remember that Dk1Ed (a creature.txt editor) let you to add "spells" that are creatures ability, like claim everywere (without be linked to a red tile)-destroy rooms (was the same spell), or eat without chicken or similar. There is a way to use them in KeeperFX and there is a complete list of those "spells"/abilities?

DragonsLover
August 6th, 2012, 00:24
The list of complete spells and abilities were originally into creature.txt and dd1creat.txt files under the instances section. Under KeeperFX, they are stored into the creature.cfg file.

Some "spells" or "abilities" aren't mean to be used by creatures that way. They're there because such instance is needed for that creature internally. Eating, for example, is mean to be used when the creature eats in the Hatchery, not anytime and anywhere.

For the ability of claiming everywhere, it may cause the game to crash if you decide to claim areas on your own Dungeon Heart or on Portals under Possession mode. Therefore, it must be avoided at all costs.

Spatulade
August 6th, 2012, 01:23
This is awesome stuff. I've also seen other spells such as one that's listed as TIME_BOMB...what does that do?

Edit: I've just played around with some of them, Light is there but does nothing as you said, and the spells for "claiming" and destroying tiles is pretty cool. I wonder why missing images change to a large image of the Temple icon. I've seen it before, it flickers for a split second when you Query a creature, and again when they learn a new spell. Odd. Most of the ones I tried didn't work, although Chicken, Disease and Timebomb all made a firing sound.

Edit again: Also, the spell listed as FEAR. Do you know how that works? Does it work anything like it does Dungeon Keeper 2 or is it a passive thing that already is part of the game? Does it cause the user to become scared? CAST_SPELL_GROUP...what does that do? Does it work similarly to Call to Arms or an Alarm Trap or a Barracks group?

Thank you so much for telling me what you know :)

DragonsLover
August 6th, 2012, 04:19
I don't know about TIME_BOMB. Perhaps it was a spell that caused an explosion after a delay?

I have no idea why it turns as a temple icon. Perhaps it was some kind of default icon, or the default value is that icon?

Chicken and Disease spells should work in possession. They should fire a magic ball. When that ball hits an enemy, they either turn to chicken or gets disease.

Fear is when a creature flees. The creature somewhat "casts" that spell internally to make him run away. Well, I think it is.

For the CAST_SPELL_GROUP thing, it's related with Barracks. Or perhaps it was a spell used in the Alpha version? I don't know.

friscmanseby
August 6th, 2012, 09:38
Chicken and Disease in my case didn't work. By the way, I read creature.cfg and played a bit with the istances. 2 question: 1) It's possible to create a new istance, for example to shot boulders? 2) I read that it's possible to decide if make visible a creature if it use a spell/ability. Why it's first person dig a force-visibility ability while the normal dig not force visibility?

Metal Gear Rex
August 6th, 2012, 09:49
2) I read that it's possible to decide if make visible a creature if it use a spell/ability. Why it's first person dig a force-visibility ability while the normal dig not force visibility?

Probably because the Imp doesn't actually use the ability. If you look at him with query mode, you'll see this. It's all handled by his AI or whatever.

friscmanseby
August 6th, 2012, 11:24
Ok, but it SHOULD be a force-visibility spell? Let me try to explain better: if an digging Imp not is forced to turn visible, why a Keeper that pretend to be a digging Imp has to be forced to turn visibile?

Spatulade
August 6th, 2012, 19:54
Chicken and Disease spells should work in possession. They should fire a magic ball. When that ball hits an enemy, they either turn to chicken or gets disease.

Well they don't work for me...any ideas on how they work for you? Can you tell me more, what does the ball look like, is it the blue-grey one for spells like Freeze and Poison Cloud?

As well as this, what about the room 'concept art' that can be extracted from room0-0.tab and room0-1.tab? It shows many types of traps (most included in DK2, such as spike and freeze) along with designs of rooms not seen, such as a room with meat hung up, and a room with a cup of tea in the centre. There's also what's probably a Blacksmith/Armoury room idea, back when it seemed creatures could wield different weapons.

Once again though, thank you and everyone for the insight :)

friscmanseby
August 6th, 2012, 21:09
Another question: what is the Spike (in magic.cfg) that does 5000 damage? Don't forget to answer to my former question (should FIRST_PERSON_DIG force visibility?)

DragonsLover
August 6th, 2012, 23:21
For Disease and Chicken, I just tested again: you must set the Health and Speed for them in order to work. It works also with CAST_SPELL_GROUP and CAST_SPELL_TIME_BOMB. After that, you'll see a magic ball shooting.

I don't know if it's possible to create new instances. Ask Mefisto about that. But anyway, creating a spell that shoots boulders would totally scrap the game.

FIRST_PERSON_DIG is different to the normal digging ability. Imps do not use the FIRST_PERSON_DIG ability to dig walls and claims path. They use an invisible ability that goes along with their AI. For their forcing visibility, since FIRST_PERSON_DIG allows more control, I think it's the reason why they wanted to turn the Imp visible back. Should I force visibility or not?

I don't know much about the Alpha stuff. The SPIKE, VORTEX and SOLID_BOULDER traps seem to be Alpha stuff.

friscmanseby
August 7th, 2012, 00:12
I know that Imp don't use first person dig, but another ability (I compared a digging Imp with a possessed digging Imp and also the sound was different). I think that if a digging imp remains invisible, a possessed digging imp should remain invisible, from a realistic point of view...

Spatulade
August 12th, 2012, 23:21
I'm back with more questions, these ones are more DK2 orientated. Is there a way to look into stuff in DK2 like you can with DK1? Specifically graphics extraction, as well as data about rooms, traps, creatures etc, such as stats, damage values and such?

Also, while looking through the creature spells in the DK2 editor, I found this: What is it? 1081

Metal Gear Rex
August 12th, 2012, 23:24
Also, while looking through the creature spells in the DK2 editor, I found this: What is it? 1081

Invulnerable, an unused but still functional (if a little glitchy with its graphics) Creature Spell.

DragonsLover
August 13th, 2012, 01:05
For graphics extraction, I remember a tool that was able to do that, but it won't extract everything. I had to alter manually the file which stores the variables to make an icon replace another spell's icon to show in-game, play the game, take a screenshot and cut it. I did the same for objects, I placed an object on the floor and alter its ID to become another object, played the game and took a screenshot to finally, cut it (which was a real pain with all these pixels, but I finally did everything).

Spatulade
August 13th, 2012, 02:09
Invulnerable, an unused but still functional (if a little glitchy with its graphics) Creature Spell.

And how would I be able to see this ability or get it to work ingame? How does it work exactly? Is it for a short time period and such?

On an unrelated note, I was fiddling around more with the DK2 editor, and I noticed the Transfer Creature special doesn't work. It's all there, but doesn't have a tooltip or anything, and using it does nothing (although I was on a Skirmish map so that could be a reason). Anyone know why it was unused? (unless it was and I'm being silly, haven't played DK2 nearly as much as DK1)

Metal Gear Rex
August 13th, 2012, 02:13
And how would I be able to see this ability or get it to work ingame? How does it work exactly? Is it for a short time period and such?

Using the Editor, you'll have to add it to a Creature. It's simple, for a set amount of time, the Creature remains invulnerable. The default time is 5 Seconds and the recharge time is 7.5 Seconds, so you may want to tweak it a bit to balance it. (Then again, hardly anything in this game is balanced so there may not be much point to that)


On an unrelated note, I was fiddling around more with the DK2 editor, and I noticed the Transfer Creature special doesn't work. It's all there, but doesn't have a tooltip or anything, and using it does nothing (although I was on a Skirmish map so that could be a reason). Anyone know why it was unused? (unless it was and I'm being silly, haven't played DK2 nearly as much as DK1)

I believe it works in 1.7 but I can't remember. May have been campaign only.