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Black Emperor
July 29th, 2012, 10:54
Hello there!
I've done some research in this forum and noticed that Elites were probably going to be included in the Campaign because of speeches mentioning them (I listened to the one with Knud in the Black Knight level, but I didn't find any difference between him and a normal Troll back then). As they are not included, I would like to include them using the Editor Pro.

The necessary creatures are present except for the Goblin in 6b and the Firefly in 7. So I just wanted to ask if what I'm trying to do is right.
I think I'd just have to add the creature to the level (or use the existing one), tick "I am Elite" in the Properties and finally add a trigger with "When claimed" and "Play speech ID X". Then I'd have to save the map using the guide Hapuga provided.
Is this already sufficient to include the creature? Also, when I'm asked if I want to include the Global Type data when saving (or while editing the map), should I click on Yes or No? I always click on Yes when doing a skirmish level, but I'm not sure if it works the same with Campaign levels. It irritates me a bit because I've read that the Campaign basically uses files from 1.3, and as Elites have been included later, I am not sure if it's going to work properly.

Metal Gear Rex
July 29th, 2012, 11:38
Hello there!
I've done some research in this forum and noticed that Elites were probably going to be included in the Campaign because of speeches mentioning them (I listened to the one with Knud in the Black Knight level, but I didn't find any difference between him and a normal Troll back then). As they are not included, I would like to include them using the Editor Pro.

It's more than just an intention to include the Elites in the campaign, and you're wrong about elites being included in later versions. Elites were intended to be in the initial 1.3 release, but they weren't for some reason. I've looked into the "1.3 Editor" along with the 1.3 levels and the data for Elites are there. In Level 15, the Troll there has also been set to Elite. The reason why nobody noticed any difference is because he was the only Troll you would get, and he's almost completely inaccessible in Level 15b. Additionally, all except the Elite Goblin function properly. (Highlighting Grubb appears to crash the game if you leave the curser on him for too long, also in the toolbar it will say "(null)") They just seem to lack the elite skins.


The necessary creatures are present except for the Goblin in 6b and the Firefly in 7.

Don't forget the Bile Demon, who additionally lacks an introduction speech. In Level 6b, just north of the portal, there's an empty dirt path area. I would assume Grubb was intended to be there. As for Bzzt, there's a neutral Salamander in Level 7 towards the southwest. Perhaps he was supposed to be placed there but they figured a Firefly would be kind of useless and so they swapped him out with a Salamander.


I think I'd just have to add the creature to the level (or use the existing one), tick "I am Elite" in the Properties and finally add a trigger with "When claimed" and "Play speech ID X". Then I'd have to save the map using the guide Hapuga provided.

Pretty much.


Also, when I'm asked if I want to include the Global Type data when saving (or while editing the map), should I click on Yes or No? I always click on Yes when doing a skirmish level, but I'm not sure if it works the same with Campaign levels.

No you don't have to save Global Data unless you modified the configuration for any Terrain, Room, Creature, etc. That's pretty much all Global Data is.

Black Emperor
July 29th, 2012, 12:47
It's more than just an intention to include the Elites in the campaign, and you're wrong about elites being included in later versions. Elites were intended to be in the initial 1.3 release, but they weren't for some reason. I've looked into the "1.3 Editor" along with the 1.3 levels and the data for Elites are there. In Level 15, the Troll there has also been set to Elite. The reason why nobody noticed any difference is because he was the only Troll you would get, and he's almost completely inaccessible in Level 15b. Additionally, all except the Elite Goblin function properly. (Highlighting Grubb appears to crash the game if you leave the curser on him for too long, also in the toolbar it will say "(null)") They just seem to lack the elite skins.
Ok, now that I've looked at the Level 15 files, the Troll is set to Elite. So all that differs from normal Elite creatures is that they lack the Elite skin?



Don't forget the Bile Demon, who additionally lacks an introduction speech. In Level 6b, just north of the portal, there's an empty dirt path area. I would assume Grubb was intended to be there. As for Bzzt, there's a neutral Salamander in Level 7 towards the southwest. Perhaps he was supposed to be placed there but they figured a Firefly would be kind of useless and so they swapped him out with a Salamander.
Really, I wanted that area in 6b to be the one where I'd put Grubb. :D
Yup, the Bile Demon's speech is missing, but the Level with the Monks and the Keeper who uses undead creatures (13?) has a level 8 Bile Demon so I thought it was the one to be made elite.




No you don't have to save Global Data unless you modified the configuration for any Terrain, Room, Creature, etc. That's pretty much all Global Data is.
Ok, so if I added a spell to an Elite, then I would have to save the Global Data, right?

Other than that, thank you for the fast reply!

Metal Gear Rex
July 29th, 2012, 13:02
Ok, now that I've looked at the Level 15 files, the Troll is set to Elite. So all that differs from normal Elite creatures is that they lack the Elite skin?

Pretty much, although it should be noted that Elite Creatures had their statistics changed before they were released in the 1.61 and again in 1.7.


Yup, the Bile Demon's speech is missing, but the Level with the Monks and the Keeper who uses undead creatures (13?) has a level 8 Bile Demon so I thought it was the one to be made elite.

I had forgotten about that area, yes that seems to be where he'd be.


Ok, so if I added a spell to an Elite, then I would have to save the Global Data, right?

Yes. I assume you plan to make the elites follow what the speech files say about them? (Such as Grubb possessing fireballs and Almeric using ice magic)

Black Emperor
July 29th, 2012, 13:06
Yes. I assume you plan to make the elites follow what the speech files say about them? (Such as Grubb possessing fireballs and Almeric using ice magic)

Precisely! ;)
That should answer all the questions I have. Thanks again for helping me out!

Metal Gear Rex
July 29th, 2012, 13:11
Precisely! ;)
That should answer all the questions I have. Thanks again for helping me out!

I recall doing this once before. I'd do it again for my balance patch but unfortunately I'm already using the Elite Vampire as a Mana Generator for enemy Keepers to counter the 500 Max Mana gain in 1.3. Ah well.

Hapuga
July 29th, 2012, 21:22
I recall doing this once before. I'd do it again for my balance patch but unfortunately I'm already using the Elite Vampire as a Mana Generator for enemy Keepers to counter the 500 Max Mana gain in 1.3. Ah well.

500 mana cap was removed in 1.51.

10k_gold_pls
August 27th, 2013, 21:48
(First post, so hello guys)

Is there a way to introduce elite units into the campaign missions on the same terms they work in pet dungeon or skirmish? Metal Gear Rex posted that it's possible, so I wander if somebody could explain somebody a guy not acquainted with DK2 modding how to do it. You know, I wouldn't like to spend 20 hours learning editors just to discover that's not possible.

I'm using updated DK2 campaign by drubjak, and that's where I would like to introduce them.

Thanks in advance.

Metal Gear Rex
August 27th, 2013, 23:23
(First post, so hello guys)

Is there a way to introduce elite units into the campaign missions on the same terms they work in pet dungeon or skirmish? Metal Gear Rex posted that it's possible, so I wander if somebody could explain somebody a guy not acquainted with DK2 modding how to do it. You know, I wouldn't like to spend 20 hours learning editors just to discover that's not possible.

I'm using updated DK2 campaign by drubjak, and that's where I would like to introduce them.

Thanks in advance.

It's not hard to add elites to a campaign. That is, if you want them to be recruitable via neutrals as intended in the original campaign. If you want them to be attractable, that adds more complications and I'm also fairly certain its impossible due to things hardcoded into the game.

For my balance patch, I tried to make the Firefly playable by using the elite Firefly slot, but despite everything being properly set up in the editor, it would not come through the portal. This is, however, 1.3. It's possible that things changed in later versions to make this possible but I'm not certain on that, and I'm not with a means to properly test the theory as I don't have 1.7 on this computer.

Keeper Decagon
August 28th, 2013, 00:29
For my balance patch, I tried to make the Firefly playable by using the elite Firefly slot, but despite everything being properly set up in the editor, it would not come through the portal. This is, however, 1.3. It's possible that things changed in later versions to make this possible but I'm not certain on that, and I'm not with a means to properly test the theory as I don't have 1.7 on this computer.

I know for sure that in 1.7 elites can definitely come through Portals. The only thing then is, they appear to be hardcoded to only enter if you have certain room configurations in your dungeon, as shown here (http://www.esotericarticles.com/Dungeon_Keeper_2_Elite_Creature_Rooms.html). I think that the elites can enter your dungeon on any map without having to specifically make them available, as you normally would have to with ordinary creatures, as long as there is a Portal and one of the room configurations in your dungeon.

Metal Gear Rex
August 28th, 2013, 01:25
I know for sure that in 1.7 elites can definitely come through Portals. The only thing then is, they appear to be hardcoded to only enter if you have certain room configurations in your dungeon, as shown here (http://www.esotericarticles.com/Dungeon_Keeper_2_Elite_Creature_Rooms.html). I think that the elites can enter your dungeon on any map without having to specifically make them available, as you normally would have to with ordinary creatures, as long as there is a Portal and one of the room configurations in your dungeon.

I know all this. I'm referring to the main campaign. Elites, in 1.7, cannot come through the Portal in the main campaign. They can in 1.61, but it was changed for some reason. Maidens are also not in the main campaign. For some reason. It's hard to say that the reason is because it makes the campaign too easy when its too easy to begin with.

10k_gold_pls
August 28th, 2013, 14:56
They do come through portals. But it is someway blocked/not included in the campaign maps Probably because they were meant to appear as neutrals in the campaign on some maps (unfinished feature, unfortunately). The question is - what makes them don't appear and how to turn it off?

Metal Gear Rex
August 28th, 2013, 15:31
They do come through portals. But it is someway blocked/not included in the campaign maps Probably because they were meant to appear as neutrals in the campaign on some maps (unfinished feature, unfortunately). The question is - what makes them don't appear and how to turn it off?

I already mentioned that. It may be something hardcoded. 1.7 has a lot of stupid hardcoded things from what I remember.

Skarok
August 28th, 2013, 15:56
I already mentioned that. It may be something hardcoded. 1.7 has a lot of stupid hardcoded things from what I remember.

Like LotL's always dying instantly for example. Even though they already had an option for that without needing to mess with his code.

10k_gold_pls
August 28th, 2013, 16:24
How does the game differs campaign maps from other? Can I make change a campain map into a skirmish/singleplayer map? And how to add creatures to the creature pool in editor?

(I know that's a bit off-topic, but I'm trying to find the source of the "blockade" and somehow work it around)

Metal Gear Rex
August 28th, 2013, 19:11
How does the game differs campaign maps from other?

Hardcoded in. It refers to the name of the file, level1, level2, level6a, etc.


Can I make change a campain map into a skirmish/singleplayer map?

Easy, you go into the editor and set the map to being Skirmish / Multiplayer within the Level Variables. However, that runs into a number of problems as s/m maps have certain properties.

First off, the enemy Keeper AI settings will be overwritten by whatever pre-set AI is used in Skirmish. If you try to get around that by not setting up an AI, the game will consider that player to be dead at the start of the game. If the map has only one Keeper, it cannot be accessed via S/M menu.

Additionally, the game automatically ends whenever the Time Limit hits 0, so you'll need to edit the script in a special manner to get around that.

The final problem relates to the Availability of Creatures, Spells, etc, in that all Players have the exact same Availability. The game refers to red Player's settings and changes everything to be equal to his settings. The only work around is to mess with the script but that has its limits.

The best you can do is rename all of the campaign files to something else, perhaps level 1 (basically put a space between the number and level) then access it via Level Select. You have to make sure the game doesn't register it as a campaign map, and then access the map without loading it up through tradditional S/M means as to avoid the problems described above, and it should work then.


And how to add creatures to the creature pool in editor?

Depends on what you mean "add creatures to the creature pool". If you mean adjusting the max number of Creatures of a specific species a Player can have, that's simple. It's within the Keeper Properties of that Player, in plain sight.

If you want to know how to add Creatures to the pool which are not traditionally obtained or even possible to obtain normally, like undead or Heroes, then you need Editor Pro and have to modify the configuration data of the Creatures. It's not that hard, basically go to the Creature you want attractable, then hit the checkbox for "Available via Creature Portal", and then that allows you to adjust their settings in the Creature Pool.

But its still a bit more involved with that. See, you have to understand that changes done with the configuration is considered global data, and that is something the map loads last, or almost last anyways. Because of this, the Creature Pool data is loaded without the game knowing that certain Creatures are supposed to be obtainable through the Pool: The Creatures you changed with the configuration data. The result of this is that the Creature Pool for that specific Creature will return to 0. The editor does not update the Creature Pool automatically when you change the configuration data either, so you will have to reload the map to reflect it. So now you have the question of how to overcome this problem.

The answer is simple. You need to have the global data loaded beforehand. Simply create a map, doesn't have to have anything in it as it serves a special purpose, that includes the global data changes. Then, every time you want to load up the campaign map or customized map, you load that blank map with the global changes first. That allows you to load the global data before the actual map settings.


(I know that's a bit off-topic, but I'm trying to find the source of the "blockade" and somehow work it around)

You're undeniably inexperienced with the editor and you have two much more experienced users speaking to you, myself and Skarok. Its incredibly unlikely that you're going to discover something we're unaware of.