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Keeper_Infernal
August 5th, 2012, 11:06
Hey everyone :)


I have create a new level campaing called "Ruthless Dungons" with different creature skills and stuf
I intend to create it that way so no one,and i mean NO one shold be sacked to the portall at some point.

I have found a job for everyone so far:Rougue are glass cannons,Mistress are middle range fighters each each..

Now,I have a creature here who doesnt looks like he has any sort of appropiate job rather then first levels creature who is sacked to th portal aftherwards.. goblins...

I have though of making them the suicidle units that you throw right into the enemy while the others are recovering from stunning,but that will require fearlessness,and thats the skeleton.

so ive decided to give the skeleton the ability to fill fear,and make him instead of a fearless fighter,into a walkin feartrap. But now I think,why would I take a goblin instead of a bile demon an HP monster who can block off the the enemy attacks easly? skeletons are usfull simply because they are cheap,and they dont take place on the creature pool.

so how do I make the goblins this way so they wont come off the portal,or take the place of the better units?

or maybe you can offer me a better role for the goblin?

Another question,i try to make the vampire an anti-magic class,so magic users would barly be able to hurt him,so i tryed to modefy the resistance tab on the creatures modifications,and Ive type 100,and then lightning,and i tested him with a fairy,but I see no differance.. whats the problem?

Hapuga
August 5th, 2012, 21:08
unless you modify the attractions it is impossible to have a good balance with current creatures, but with new spells.

Keeper_Infernal
August 5th, 2012, 21:13
What do you mean by that? more creatures from portal,creature pool toying? what?

(exept from the goblin,I belive ive done a preaty great job at balancing these creatures to the point you need atleast 1 from almost every 1 of them.)

Hapuga
August 6th, 2012, 01:19
rooms that are needed., creatures/tile etc. There are plenty of things to balance.

Keeper_Infernal
August 6th, 2012, 08:12
rooms? appart from the tample who shold be made a little more pricy,I dont see anything els to balance,and as i already said,i belive ive found a preaty good role for anyone,without no costume roooms/tiles/spells..

Just the goblin left a little, off...

So I am asking you now,will you leave a spot for a goblin in your dungeon,and the 1 fearless unit that will suicidly charge into battle to cover up your units? and is the walkig fear trap role for skeleton looks okey,will you bother creating them?

(Pleas just open your mind a bit,DK2 is not such a poorly made game as you and others says,just a little bit of twiks,and it could be perfect.)

Hapuga
August 6th, 2012, 09:24
rooms? appart from the tample who shold be made a little more pricy,I dont see anything els to balance,and as i already said,i belive ive found a preaty good role for anyone,without no costume roooms/tiles/spells..

Just the goblin left a little, off...

So I am asking you now,will you leave a spot for a goblin in your dungeon,and the 1 fearless unit that will suicidly charge into battle to cover up your units? and is the walkig fear trap role for skeleton looks okey,will you bother creating them?

(Pleas just open your mind a bit,DK2 is not such a poorly made game as you and others says,just a little bit of twiks,and it could be perfect.)

Please, show me where I said that DK2 poorly made game.
I've been doing level design for about 10-12 years now, no need to assume I am close-minded.

You have a default value of 15 creatures per lair, yet you decided not to change any dependencies, and at the same time, you want all the creatures to be equally useful. This is a very risky game, because the only reason I would want goblins is if they are powerful enough to fight in my army on a descent role. On the other hand, if they are powerful enough, why would I bother creating any other rooms? I may just rush the player with goblins.

Let's say, I an a rusher and you are a turtler. My tactic is - get as many portals, build a huge lair, attract 30 goblins, and I'm done. Because the goblins are equally powerful as a mass as your mighty creatures, I am at a great advantage, because I may mass product a powerful force quickly.

The reason I see it as a nearly impossible balance fix to have all creatures at the same time as you want is because DK2 is not starcraft. In starcraft you pretty much don't care, you have a disposable army. In DK you have a constant force. If you want them to be equal in value, you have adjust the game setting further than just some stat tweaks because of the reasons I explained above. If I can have 15 moderately good units at game start, why would I bother with going further than that?

You have to either bump the goblin value in stats and reduce their pool size, or accept the fact that you cannot avoid dumping someone for someone better.

Hapuga
August 6th, 2012, 09:25
damn this forum lags big time today.

Keeper_Infernal
August 6th, 2012, 10:51
So basicly you mean that in order to make it balanced,i need to make a pool that has place for anyone,so no one will step on the others place.. right?

But its not really what I am aming at..

Ill give you an example,Black knights are the main attacking force as middle hp/attack power,together with the bile demon as an hp beast and rouge as a glass canon,thay can be a great for overuning anyone.. BUT! if you dont have a single troll,you dont have the power to create traps,AT ALL,and without no warlock,you HAVE NO SPELLs... and if the enemy suddenly decides to amass a dark mistress army? who fills a role of a midd-range fragile stunner? Imagine what hell it would be for the Bknights and bile demon to even get close.. a rouge might have a chance,but then again getting caught for him means death,and with mid range fighters thats preaty likely.. so i bet you will rather throw all of you "mighty B knights" to the portal for a nice band of D-Elfs that will easly take them down from afar.. no?

I must say this story in the original DK would have been a funny joke,black knights would overun the mistresses easly,but with my tweaks thats no likely..

Now i need a creative idea for this goblin minion,i though of a fearless fighter who gets up fast and holds up the enemy for a few seconds so the bile demon will get up and wont recive any extra damge from stunning. Is that a unit that you will bother training,at least 1 minion?

Hapuga
August 8th, 2012, 19:38
I intend to create it that way so no one,and i mean NO one shold be sacked to the portall at some point.



This. I'm only responding to this. I'm just stating that with creature balance only, this goal is nearly unachievable. Why - I explained in my previous post.