View Full Version : Scavanging Thin Air?

Metal Gear Rex
October 23rd, 2009, 22:04
I was playing Blaise End, and as I was rebuilding my Scavenger Room (I sold it to make imps to gather gold to spam Lightning) after I won, and then I remembered once playing in Skybird Trill. I didn't know how the Scavenger Room worked, so even after there were no Horned Reapers, I kept on scavenging.

I had three level 10 Horned Reapers, one from the Transfer Creature, one was the neutral creature, the last I converted from the heroes. They were scavenging for a while, and I thought that I could get more but after a long period of time, since there were none from that level.

And eventually, I was right. I saw a single level 1 Horned Reaper appear after scavanging for as long as it took to get a level 10 (Maybe more). Is this a glitch or what? I was playing the normal Dungeon Keeper, by the way.

October 25th, 2009, 04:57
I don't know. If it was a level 2 Horned Reaper, then perhaps it was one from the enemy's temple pool after making the proper recipe. Otherwise, I have no idea.

Metal Gear Rex
October 25th, 2009, 05:04
It was a computer though...

October 25th, 2009, 21:26
That's still possible. If the enemy computer player drops the right combination of creatures into its temple pool *accidentally* it can still create things - it doesn't seem to drop things in there on purpose.

I've seen this happen in level 19 "Mistle". There are only 2 bile demons in the realm. Technically both you and the computer player can get them: but what happens in practice is that you get both, because the computer player finds it so much easier to attract skeletons (I believe he doesn't start off with a big enough hatchery), whereas the player has very early access to more than enough lair AND hatchery space to attract bile demons. Also, if the computer player does attract one of the biles, it's a handicap to him because the moment it enters the lair, it will be set on by the skeletons till it's killed (and re-enters the creature pool to be attracted by the player).

So normally you get 2 biles (eventually), and that's all you get. Put them in the scavenger room, you spend nothing and get nothing... BUT every so often, you may notice that suddenly they're attracting something. The reason being, for some reason a couple of his spiders have fallen into the temple water (or perhaps gotten angry and been picked up and put in the temple, but the AI's Hand got it wrong and missed the path), and created a bile demon out of nowhere for him, and you can attract it suddenly.

I don't believe that this SHOULD be happening, but I'm satisfied that it DOES happen.

Anyway, a level 1 reaper shouldn't exist in Skybird Trill, because there should be a maximum of three Reapers in the realm:
- (1) The one that you can transfer in from a Secret Realm (3). This one, of course, will be high-level.
- (2) A neutral one, that either player can claim, in the central castle. This one is level 10.
- (3) A "hero" one, which will attack whichever player claims the central castle. If it's the enemy keeper, he will die (the enemy doesn't take prisoners): if it's you, you can capture and convert him. This one is also level 10.

So the only other way to create a Reaper in Skybird Trill is by sacrifice. The enemy can do it accidentally (not on purpose: most likely it dropped angry or Diseased creatures in the Temple, and some went in the water in the right combination to create a Reaper.) The player can do it on purpose only if he acquires Mistresses - and since you can't attract any, the only way to get them is by capturing them in combat (or by bringing the level 10 Mistress through from Secret Realm 2, upon which you can scavenge them from the enemy. If he doesn't get yours first. Of course, that means no transferred Reaper.)

Which can, in fact, be done... every so often the enemy will launch assaults your territory in the central castle, and isn't always quick enough to pull dying creatures out of combat. It's the only way to get Warlocks and Mistresses in the realm. (There being no Spiders, it's also impossible to get any by sacrifice.)

You know what I found really fun? Transferring through that Mistress from the Secret Realm, using her to scavenge mistresses from the enemy... keeping one troll to scavenge too (let the enemy have the rest)... and build up a ginormous army of Reapers. Stationing them on guard posts just where you expect the enemy to break in (from the visible hero gates, in the big area west of your Heart, and in the small Hero fortress.) Reapers don't object to guard duty, it's something that keeps them nicely occupied and prevents them rioting if there isn't room in the Temple for them to pray.

(Oddly enough, I've noticed that Warlocks in my copy seem singularly averse to praying in the Temple, even when they're annoyed - they just go back to their rooms and sulk. However I can't find any documentation of this, nor does it show up as an "unwilling" or "won't do" job on any of the creature editors. Nevertheless, all my Warlocks seem to be atheists. It's hardly surprising: when you seek godlike power yourself, you wouldn't acknowledge a god's existence or beg it to give you power, healing, luck or good moods that you couldn't get for yourself.)

October 25th, 2009, 21:34
Actually, alternatively, I wonder if it's a bug. That is, maybe you already had two reapers (the transferred one and the neutral one) and set them to scavenging - and they fixed their gaze on the third (the hero one), but you captured and imprisoned and converted it while the other two were in mid-scavenge?

So somehow your scavenging creatures still thought they had an "object" (a level 10 reaper), but when the scavenging was complete, it no longer existed (having been converted to your side) so the game had to create a new reaper, defaulting to it being a level 1?

Metal Gear Rex
October 25th, 2009, 21:50
I'm not reading that long post (Not now) and I had all 3 by the time I started scavanging. This was the normal Dungeon Keeper, no FX.

November 8th, 2009, 01:37
I also had once a level 1 Giant from scavenging, while no Giant was in the pool or on the realm.

These things happen often. Strange things occur, where the game adapts to computer speed. I also noticed, that the AI makes different decisions on different computers. Random is calculated by a clock, so the random abilities of the engine create things by accident. I have this a lot with imps, where they suddenly refuse to work, or go play in the water.

The temple story is nonsense, because every creature form a temple has a minimal of level 2. A Horny from level 1, can not be made by a temple. So it looks to me, it is the same as when I had this Giant level 1, scaveging while the portal was still open.

Other things are room centers, that do not appear, before the game goes tilt. Or creatures getting angry, in a certain bloodtype, having a certain name, go bezerk. Going tilt will be a bug, but these unpredictable things are very beautiful sometimes, and to me it is logical. Chips are very small, electrical currents there also, so are sensitive to original currents, that where not implemented.

Metal Gear Rex
November 8th, 2009, 01:43
It does have an affect of it taking longer because "He's being scavange from another land" so... yeah.

October 14th, 2010, 18:20
I'm not sure i brought a priestess from one of the secret realms. Put the priestess in to scavenge the hero's priestess supply.Then I attracted a level 1 priestess later on,and as far as I know there were no level 1 priestess in the entire level.This phenomena might be the result of the scavenger room's ability to obtain creatures from the creature pool.Perhaps some horny's and hero's found there way into the pool

DK Tentacle
October 14th, 2010, 20:39
yes, you can scavenge from the creature pool, this was proven in the supposed version of belbata, but the guys messed up and you can't get scavenger room(though i edited it so that you can)

October 15th, 2010, 20:07
It was Netzcaro by the way. And also, I tried with a Scavenger Room in that level and it really scraps the level, so it's a good thing there isn't one.