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DragonsLover
October 26th, 2009, 04:57
It's just to report that some people and members on forums I visit STILL encounter an invisible/absent mouse cursor at the level selection screen (the overview of the land). I was wondering if this could be fixed soon.

natchoguy
October 26th, 2009, 19:27
Do lots of people have it?

mefistotelis
October 26th, 2009, 21:24
I can't find any coding error.

The cursor seems to work fine on my machine.

This means it's hard for me to fix this. I mean, how to fix an error if I can't see if it's fixed or not?

The last debug version logs some info every time the cursor is set - could anyone make the log file when the cursor is gone?

Hyzoran
November 7th, 2009, 00:01
This problem needs to be fixed, it also happens during gameplay and renders the game unplayable, it ramdomly happens and when it does it seems like the game will no longer accept cursor movement and only clicking seems to respond, the only way to fix this right now is restart the application. Also how do you force the game to make a log as the log dosen't seem to be changing.

mefistotelis
November 7th, 2009, 14:15
how do you force the game to make a log as the log dosen't seem to be changing.
You must download the debug version and overwrite original keeperfx.exe and .dll with it.

dk2player
November 8th, 2009, 16:58
Yeah, I've encountered this problem too. Any suggestions on how to stop and/or avoid it

EDIT: If this helps any, this is the log file of everything that happend up to the curser dissapearing: http://www.box.net/shared/fg6lgux6s7

mefistotelis
November 8th, 2009, 23:07
I checked the log; I can see that offset used for mouse cursors was first at 0124F9B2 (land selection), then went to 012232C6 (that must be start of the game), and then it suddenly jumped to 07361464.

When the cursor disappeared? Was it near end of the logging?
Maybe it was when you switched resolution?

dk2player
November 9th, 2009, 00:40
I changed resolution at the beginning of the level. then I played through, and it wasn't untill after my lair was built that the mouse dissapeared. but I could still click, just not move it.

and after it dissapeared, then I exited out.

dragonfist
November 12th, 2009, 12:34
I bought a Computer some days ago, having Vista.
It was not possible to install Dungeon Keeper.
Than I would read some advice, that KeeperFX runs Dungeon Keeper on Vista. I tried it, unzipped it over a non working Dungeon Keeper installation in Vista, and it worked! Me happy, that was soon destroyed, by this mouse problem. That I encountered, when I accessed Play Free Levels. Where not only no mouse, but also no levels where visible. So I installed a level set having *.lif, also didn't work. No levels to see in Free Play Levels. *.lif is a Deeper Dungeons format and is also used by the Editor. I had pasted my complete levels map into the keeper directory though.

But I can't use KeeperFX. Although KeeperFX can handle Dungeon Keeper, because except for the mouse, KeeperFX makes Dungeon Keeper work 100% in Vista. I wonder if there is an older version of KeeperFX, that doesn't have the mouse bug. I must say though, on my previous XP Computer, that is broken now, I played KeeperFX a lot, and there is also a problem with the mouse disappearing there, when it was made to become the hand of Evil. Like when throwing Imps in the Temple or Creatures in front of a door. Any how, I also tried to play a Campaign with KeeperFX in Vista, there also the mouse disappeared. Funny thing, my previous computer broke down, because the mouse gave up, but I would buy a new mouse, the mouse also gave up in Windows XP :o

In Interviews I would read that this "Hand of Evil" was inplemented later in the Game.
If there is an older KeeperFX version that works on Vista, I would like very much to hear from that.

Hyzoran
November 12th, 2009, 20:17
I bought a Computer some days ago, having Vista.
It was not possible to install Dungeon Keeper.
Than I would read some advice, that KeeperFX runs Dungeon Keeper on Vista. I tried it, unzipped it over a non working Dungeon Keeper installation in Vista, and it worked! Me happy, that was soon destroyed, by this mouse problem. That I encountered, when I accessed Play Free Levels. Where not only no mouse, but also no levels where visible. So I installed a level set having *.lif, also didn't work. No levels to see in Free Play Levels. *.lif is a Deeper Dungeons format and is also used by the Editor. I had pasted my complete levels map into the keeper directory though.

But I can't use KeeperFX. Although KeeperFX can handle Dungeon Keeper, because except for the mouse, KeeperFX makes Dungeon Keeper work 100% in Vista. I wonder if there is an older version of KeeperFX, that doesn't have the mouse bug. I must say though, on my previous XP Computer, that is broken now, I played KeeperFX a lot, and there is also a problem with the mouse disappearing there, when it was made to become the hand of Evil. Like when throwing Imps in the Temple or Creatures in front of a door. Any how, I also tried to play a Campaign with KeeperFX in Vista, there also the mouse disappeared. Funny thing, my previous computer broke down, because the mouse gave up, but I would buy a new mouse, the mouse also gave up in Windows XP :o

In Interviews I would read that this "Hand of Evil" was inplemented later in the Game.
If there is an older KeeperFX version that works on Vista, I would like very much to hear from that.

You don't need to rely on KeeperFx to get Dungeon Keeper to work on Vista, I got it to work fine, by not running it in compatability mode at all because when i ran it in compatability mode it would not work, But here are the list of solutions that might help:

Try running it in Compatability mode for Win 95, Win 98, or Win 2000.
Try doing the DEP trick.
Try Using Microsoft Application Compatability Toolkit
Try Using KeeperFx (Checked out in your case.)
Try not Running the game in compatability mode
Try "Run as Admin."
If all else fails, Try Dosbox and use the Dos version of the game. (Not reccomended as the Dos version has hell alot less features than the win version.)

Hope this helps until the mouse problem is solved.

DragonsLover
November 12th, 2009, 22:16
More infos about the mouse cursor bug : it seems that it doesn't happen always at the same moment. Some people don't have the cursor at the main menu instead of the overland screen. Some people also reported that the colours become messed up with bright pink or green when it happens.

I don't know if you have tested KeeperFX over the new Windows 7, but the mouse cursor bug still applies.

I'm wondering if it could be related to DirectX or Direct3D or if it's really a bad coding thing.

Someone suggested that you code the game to use the "Windows" cursor temporarly, at least to make the game working well, until the problem is fixed.

EDIT : One of my members have posted a LOG file using the Debug version. You can read it here (http://dungeon-keeper.net/files/misc/keeperfx.log).

dragonfist
November 15th, 2009, 03:16
I also have a log. here:
http://forum.keeperklan.com/dk1-vista-help-t327p3.html
There are also some descriptions around the log.


You don't need to rely on KeeperFx to get Dungeon Keeper to work on Vista, I got it to work fine, by not running it in compatability mode at all because when i ran it in compatability mode it would not work, But here are the list of solutions that might help:

Try running it in Compatability mode for Win 95, Win 98, or Win 2000.
Try doing the DEP trick.
Try Using Microsoft Application Compatability Toolkit
Try Using KeeperFx (Checked out in your case.)
Try not Running the game in compatability mode
Try "Run as Admin."
If all else fails, Try Dosbox and use the Dos version of the game. (Not reccomended as the Dos version has hell alot less features than the win version.)

Hope this helps until the mouse problem is solved. I tried all options that you described, none worked. Look here, Dungeon Keeper can run in MSdos, that I sometimes had to install in the 1990's, in order to install Windows 95. That was on 5 floppies, so MSdos is less than 8 MB. Vista however is to be put on 3 DVD's to back-up, so around 20 GB. MS-dos was available in Windows 95 and in 98, but in XP they decided to kick out MSdos. Further I visited several Vista forums last week, where they claim, that Vista is compatible with Dungeon keeper, what is just a plain lie. Lying and cheating, sabotaging their competition, is the way Microsoft is doing business. And if nobody says so, it will become worse. I tried Linux in the 1990's, but since I am not a programmer, it just screwed up my computer. I was not able to install Linux. We are facing a Global Monopoly by an evil bunch of Knights. Bill Gates, owner of Microsoft, is a Teutonic Knight (http://z10.invisionfree.com/The_Unhived_Mind_II/index.php?showtopic=7337), and so is Steve Jobs, owner of Macintosh. The Hegelian Dialectic creating a Global monopoly. I want them in my torture room, starting with their reputation!

Any how, you can bypass this bug, by pressing Alt+r. Switching resolution brings back the mouse. This however only works when you are in the Dungeon, not on the map or the interface. My proposal for repairing this bug, that I would put in the Vista discussion, is to update the dungeon from recalculating the resolution. Since I'm not a programmer myself, I'm not sure what is possible, but this is how I repair this bug myself, in order to play Dungeon Keeper in Vista.

Further I would read some where, that Mefistotelis runs Dungeon Keeper on an older computer. Well, try it on Vista or Windows 7, and maybe you can see what we are talking about. There is something wrong with the mouse any way, because in XP I would notice that the hand and the animations would disappear, when I would throw creatures in the temple or before a door.

mefistotelis
November 15th, 2009, 08:11
Someone suggested that you code the game to use the "Windows" cursor temporarly, at least to make the game working well, until the problem is fixed.

I can't do that.
The "windows" cursor is not in the same place that in-game cursor - DK uses strange method to control mouse.

The "windows" cursor is always near center of the screen; when you move mouse, the game computes change in position (shift = new_position - previous_position) and adds it to mouse position inside the engine. Then the "windows" mouse is placed back at center of the screen.

I'm working on the problem; thanks for the LOGs. I will soon publish a new experimetal version for you.

Hyzoran
November 16th, 2009, 00:06
I think i know what is causing this problem, it is the difference between windows resolution and the game resolution, evidence of this is pressing alt r to refresh the resolution, and this only seems to happen on newer operating systems, which support higher resolutions while the game seems to work better on old operating systems because it supports only lower resolutions,
but this mouse problem is only in keeperfx, not the normal keeper, which tells me something added into keeperfx changes something about the resolution and causes it to act up, so i propose a solution: Lower your resolution as low as you can which in Non-hacked official version of windows vista is 800x600x16, this may reduced the chances and the frequency in which this conflict occurs, and may help. I am only guessing so i don't really know but wutevah.

Edit: I tried it, as soon as i went to level select screen it did it again, but when i actually played the game it went a good while before it did it again, when before if i played it would do it as soon as i entered the game. I am not sure if this is a result of lowering my system resolution or just luck.

DragonsLover
November 16th, 2009, 00:35
So, it may be related with the screen resolution? Interesting. I should check that myself.


I'm working on the problem; thanks for the LOGs. I will soon publish a new experimetal version for you.

Well, not only for me. This is because I don't get that mouse cursor bug and it will be hard to tell if it's solved or not. I didn't play long enough with KeeperFX for having my mouse disappearing. I'm playing under WinXP, not Vista or 7.

Metal Gear Rex
November 16th, 2009, 00:41
If it has anything to do with it, I once tried using Fraps but it seemed to cause the mouse bug more often.

dragonfist
November 16th, 2009, 01:27
Edit: I tried it, as soon as i went to level select screen it did it again, but when i actually played the game it went a good while before it did it again, when before if i played it would do it as soon as i entered the game. I am not sure if this is a result of lowering my system resolution or just luck.It has nothing to do with the resolution.
Alt+r refreshes the calculations, so also recalculates the mouse.
It's just a trick, using the ability to recalculate the Dungeon, that is also needed for a resolution switch.

Mefistotelis is right, the mouse is calculated on a different way as in Windows. This is in most games, maybe all. I would once install a game engine, this one:
http://www.game-maker.nl/
Where I would make games, and there is also in every game a new mouse driver. One has to use graphic files to create your own mouse and script the way it behaves. Most games will have a unique way to calculate the mouse. The problems will be created by DirectX drivers, because DirectX is the interface between Windows and DirectX games as Dungeon Keeper. Something in DirectX9 will be different from DirectX3, and the way the mouse was scripted in Dungeon Keeper gave no problems to DirectX3. Maybe some one likes to try uninstalling DirectX9, and install DirectX3. But the problem is, that Microsoft Windows has a secret Kernel, unlike Linux, and in order to play games on a PC, DirectX was made, as an interface between this secret kernel and game programmers. This is also the reason I every time have to address Microsoft court cases in the 1990's; another court case was made back than, that Windows had to make their Kernel open source. Unfortunately Microsoft would win that case, this is why they are so powerful now.

It looks to me, Mefistotelis might have to write a new script for the mouse, in order to make KeeperFX compatible to Vista and Windows7. Unless Microsoft decides to help. But I doubt this. I suspect that Microsoft wants to sell their software, many games and Xbox, so will try to sabotage 1990's games, in order to sell their own products. This has been their policy as long as I know them. And I am not the only one that understands this. Just have a look at the many programmers that sacrificed their free time to write Linux, in order to defend against this dangerous monopoly by powermongers with such a low morality.

Maybe some trick can be found to repair this, as I used this trick with the resolution switch.

mefistotelis
November 16th, 2009, 17:31
Here's the experimental version:

http://keeper.lubie.org/html/dk_keeperfx_ccp.php

First, try running it normally. If the mouse problem will still occur, run it with "-altinput" parameter:

keeperfx.exe -altinput
This will enable different approach to the mouse.

Note that it's VERY experimental. Some colour effects, or other things, may not work.

Hyzoran
November 16th, 2009, 23:56
Yay the mouse cursor error thing is gone, but unfortunately, it laggs! WTF!? how much ram does Keeperfx take? im running a newer computer over 10 years older and it laggs, i hate vista now!

dotted
November 17th, 2009, 00:00
both methods works, havent tested ingame as it crashes as it loads the level

Hyzoran
November 17th, 2009, 00:58
I experienced a new problem, every time you press space to end the level, the game crashes.

mefistotelis
November 18th, 2009, 22:03
havent tested ingame as it crashes as it loads the level
Your log says that you didn't updated resolutions for vista.


I experienced a new problem, every time you press space to end the level, the game crashes.
Can I have a log file?

Hyzoran
November 19th, 2009, 02:54
Upload a debug version of KeeperFX CCP and maybe I will create a log for you to read. You and your logs :P.

dotted
November 19th, 2009, 04:09
Your log says that you didn't updated resolutions for vista.
You sir are a winner. I assume the low fps is due to 0.33 is a debug build?

mefistotelis
November 19th, 2009, 04:54
You sir are a winner. I assume the low fps is due to 0.33 is a debug build?
Correct. It's not final .33 release, and it's debug version.

dotted
November 19th, 2009, 05:20
Correct. It's not final .33 release, and it's debug version.

Awesome, can't wait for the final release