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Oehler
January 31st, 2014, 14:39
Rex Edit:

Here it is: 'Creature stats list' (https://www.dropbox.com/s/l8bidudok4bp0wn/Creature%20stats.xls). There are not all attributes, but the most important of them are present. I can edit it if it'll be necessary. I hope there are not so many mistakes.

Original Post:
Hey I just started to play DK2 again after a break of more than 10 years... I wonder if there is any chart where the creatures stats can be read. Haven't found it yet :( Can anyone help me?

Oehler
February 3rd, 2014, 10:24
Noone can help?:confused:

Shonji
February 3rd, 2014, 17:28
I would like to but sadly I don't know myself, I am pretty sure if you look in the Editor you could find them out. As to how to do such, you would have to ask someone that knows how to use it. I don't xD.

SADevil
February 4th, 2014, 18:45
Hey I just started to play DK2 again after a break of more than 10 years... I wonder if there is any chart where the creatures stats can be read. Haven't found it yet :( Can anyone help me?

Yes, as Shonji said you can look for creatures' stats in DK2 Editor. That's how:

1. Launch DK2 Editor.exe
2. On tool panel click New > OK
3. In menu click Configuration > Creature Types..., there you can select creature type and attribute in respective dropdown boxes. In the left you will see value of selected creature's attribute.
4. Some attributes depend on creature level, and to know such attribute's value you have to: In menu click Level > Edit Level Variables... > Creature Stats... and select needed attribute from dropdown list, in the bottom you will see Stat Increase Percantage For Level.

Some time ago I have build in Excel a list of almost all creatures' stats for each level, but it's only in Russian. If anyone interested in it, I can translate and share it. It also available in the web (http://vk.com/page-11087727_45497868) with more visual representation.

Metal Gear Rex
February 5th, 2014, 09:39
Personally I don't need it as I have the editor myself, but not everybody does who might be interested. I'm not sure how difficult it would be for you to translate it, but I'm sure there are people who would appreciate it. I tried looking around for some stats for vanilla DKII but couldn't find them on any site, so in general it would be pretty good to have this listed somewhere for reference.

If you decide to do so, I can put the link in the first post and sticky the thread for easy, future reference.

Edit:
Actually, I was looking at some of the images, and I found this melee sword icon.

http://cs412130.vk.me/v412130118/708a/2K8kkluJNYk.jpg

I swear I haven't seen that one before on any unit. What is it called? I'd like to be able to add it to some units in my patch, specifically the Samurai. It's not a huge deal as it's only in possession but it is a nice little detail if I can implement it.

Edit2:
Also, are those Mana from Prayer values accurate? At least in 1.3, literally all Creatures generate 250 mana. Even if the Imp, if you can successfully glitch him out enough to get him to pray like a normal Creature. Did they change that in later versions?

SADevil
February 5th, 2014, 10:56
I'm not sure how difficult it would be for you to translate it, but I'm sure there are people who would appreciate it.
I think it will be pretty easy because only attributes' names need to be translated, so I can copy-paste them. I couldn't find such information on the internet either, so decided to make it myself :)


If you decide to do so, I can put the link in the first post and sticky the thread for easy, future reference.
That would be great! The only thing that I'm not sure about, is that I haven't rounded some values, that actually rounds in the game... If this is important.


Actually, I was looking at some of the images, and I found this melee sword icon.
I believe it's Skeleton's melee attack icon :) Unfortunately I failed to find a good amount of this icons in the best quality. All blurry icons (such as this) on aforementioned page was taken via screenshots, anything else - from game and editor files.


Also, are those Mana from Prayer values accurate?
I've taken them from editor and they are pretty much what I saw in game (popping up from praying creatures), but I'm not sure that they are 100% represent ingame numbers. And it's 1.7... I can't run any other version (that hasn't got Hardware Acceleration fix) of the game on my PC.

Metal Gear Rex
February 5th, 2014, 11:09
That would be great! The only thing that I'm not sure about, is that I haven't rounded some values, that actually rounds in the game... If this is important.

I don't know if it ever will make that huge of a difference as most stats are pretty large, relatively speaking.


I believe it's Skeleton's melee attack icon :) Unfortunately I failed to find a good amount of this icons in the best quality. All blurry icons (such as this) on aforementioned page was taken via screenshots, anything else - from game and editor files.

That it is. Strange, I must have just passed over the Skeleton when I was checking the different Creatures you had set up. Maybe I don't possess Skeletons that often, but I didn't realize they had a unique melee icon. Then again, I don't use possession much in general.


I've taken them from editor and they are pretty much what I saw in game (popping up from praying creatures), but I'm not sure that they are 100% represent ingame numbers. And it's 1.7... I can't run any other version (that hasn't got Hardware Acceleration fix) of the game on my PC.

Interesting. I guess they realized how broken a universal 250 mana generation was, lol. I don't have a 1.7 version of the game on this computer so I couldn't double check it myself.

SADevil
February 5th, 2014, 12:28
Here it is: 'Creature stats list' (https://www.dropbox.com/s/l8bidudok4bp0wn/Creature%20stats.xls). There are not all attributes, but the most important of them are present. I can edit it if it'll be necessary. I hope there are not so many mistakes.


I don't know if it ever will make that huge of a difference as most stats are pretty large, relatively speaking.

Ok, so I won't mind it then.

Metal Gear Rex
February 5th, 2014, 12:45
Alright, I've added the link to the first post and stickied this thread.

SADevil
February 5th, 2014, 14:00
Alright, I've added the link to the first post and stickied this thread.

Thanks!
I've just added almost all damaging and healing abilities to the list with exception of Dark Angel's and Mistress' Hail Storm, Drain and Maiden Poison Spit, which I can't clearly understand by numbers in editor.

Oehler
February 5th, 2014, 17:27
Really really nice, thanks a lot for the help :) !

Metal Gear Rex
February 5th, 2014, 17:33
Thanks!
I've just added almost all damaging and healing abilities to the list with exception of Dark Angel's and Mistress' Hail Storm, Drain and Maiden Poison Spit, which I can't clearly understand by numbers in editor.

Oh, those are easy. The first number of Hailstorm is damage as long as the unit is in its AoE, second is the actual AoE. Hailstorm hits up to 30 times I believe. It's that way in 1.3 at least. You can look this up in the shot data, it has a Health of 30.

Drain deals damage based on a percentage of the Creature's max health. So it's the only spell in the game that technically gets stronger as the unit levels up.

I don't know about Poison Spit, perhaps you could also check the shot data for it and look up some of its stats that way, like with Hail.

SADevil
February 6th, 2014, 10:18
Oh, those are easy. The first number of Hailstorm is damage as long as the unit is in its AoE, second is the actual AoE. Hailstorm hits up to 30 times I believe. It's that way in 1.3 at least. You can look this up in the shot data, it has a Health of 30.
Now I get it. I couldn't thought what Shot Health really means. But, is AoE in Shot Data 2 a diameter in tiles around an impact point or something else?


Drain deals damage based on a percentage of the Creature's max health. So it's the only spell in the game that technically gets stronger as the unit levels up.
So it means that target unit looses 25% of its max health and Vampire heals himself by equal amount of HP? (Shot Data 1: 25; Shot Data 2: 0)


I don't know about Poison Spit, perhaps you could also check the shot data for it and look up some of its stats that way, like with Hail.
My guess is that it poisons target for 200 damage/sec for 10 seconds (Shot Data 1: 200; Shot Data 2: 10) but it seems to powerfull to be true, or I'm wrong. Here is screenshot of its Creature Spell Type and Shot Type (https://www.dropbox.com/s/k33sc14zk6n0k48/Maiden%20Poison%20Spit.jpg).

Metal Gear Rex
February 6th, 2014, 10:36
Now I get it. I couldn't thought what Shot Health really means. But, is AoE in Shot Data 2 a diameter in tiles around an impact point or something else?

Yes, that is what Shot Data 2 is. If I recall, Hailstorm had a problem with its AoE being kinda small and sometimes would bug out even. Like, you would step out of its radius and then back in, and it wouldn't do any damage. That is an issue considering its most powerful when used on units close together, and yet that's also when they begin to squirm around due to collisions. For my patch, I had to increase the range by 1, which seemed to get by that.


So it means that target unit looses 25% of its max health and Vampire heals himself by equal amount of HP? (Shot Data 1: 25; Shot Data 2: 0)

No, doesn't lose health. It's a drain, so it deals damage equal to 25% of the Vamp's max health and then heals by that much as well. You usually never see the healing, however, as Vamps are melee based and they tend to cast the spell only at the beginning of the fight, before they take damage.


My guess is that it poisons target for 200 damage/sec for 10 seconds (Shot Data 1: 200; Shot Data 2: 10) but it seems to powerfull to be true, or I'm wrong. Here is screenshot of its Creature Spell Type and Shot Type (https://www.dropbox.com/s/k33sc14zk6n0k48/Maiden%20Poison%20Spit.jpg).

Well, it's a Level 8 spell, so 2000 damage may not be completely absurd. It's a lot of damage, but it isn't instant, so it's harder to notice it. I imagine the Creature would usually fall to melee attacks before the spell deals its full damage. However, this is provided your assumption is correct. I'm unfamiliar with the Poison Spit shot type. I recall hearing from a friend that the spell was bugged and didn't actually work, but I never played around with it myself.

I checked the 1.3 editor now and noticed that the Poison Spit process type does actually exist there, as well as 'Web Area Effect' and 'Jack In the Box'. I could recreate it and play around with it to see if it works, but that is assuming the 1.3 version of the game has the same coding for the spell. Could you spare me a screenshot of the 'Effects and Shots' menu as well? Also, if it isn't too much of a bother, could you provide similar screenshots for the Web and Jack in the Box shots? I'm curious if I can recreate those in 1.3.

Perhaps you could try a test in My Pet Dungeon? See if the spell, when cast on a (Black) Knight, kills it in one or two shots without any other damage being applied to it. The 20 Health in the Shot Type does make me wonder a bit. Perhaps it is a total of 4000 damage, with 200 damage for 20 seconds? Though that actually sounds a bit absurd.

SADevil
February 6th, 2014, 13:10
No, doesn't lose health. It's a drain, so it deals damage equal to 25% of the Vamp's max health and then heals by that much as well. You usually never see the healing, however, as Vamps are melee based and they tend to cast the spell only at the beginning of the fight, before they take damage.
Oh, it's Vampire's health... So Drain is the only ability that scales its damage with creature level.


Could you spare me a screenshot of the 'Effects and Shots' menu as well? Also, if it isn't too much of a bother, could you provide similar screenshots for the Web and Jack in the Box shots? I'm curious if I can recreate those in 1.3.
Maiden Poison Spit (https://www.dropbox.com/s/k33sc14zk6n0k48/Maiden%20Poison%20Spit.jpg), Maiden Web (https://www.dropbox.com/s/saahmd8homoltgz/Maiden%20Web.jpg), Jack In The Box (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ccv5dmrfv2ecwfh/Jack%20In%20The%20Box.jpg).


Perhaps you could try a test in My Pet Dungeon? See if the spell, when cast on a (Black) Knight, kills it in one or two shots without any other damage being applied to it. The 20 Health in the Shot Type does make me wonder a bit. Perhaps it is a total of 4000 damage, with 200 damage for 20 seconds? Though that actually sounds a bit absurd.
I can, may be at the weekend.

Metal Gear Rex
February 6th, 2014, 13:17
Oh, it's Vampire's health... So Drain is the only ability that scales its damage with creature level.

Yeah, it is very much the strongest damage spell in the game.


Maiden Poison Spit (https://www.dropbox.com/s/k33sc14zk6n0k48/Maiden%20Poison%20Spit.jpg), Maiden Web (https://www.dropbox.com/s/saahmd8homoltgz/Maiden%20Web.jpg), Jack In The Box (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ccv5dmrfv2ecwfh/Jack%20In%20The%20Box.jpg).

Got them all, thanks.


I can, may be at the weekend.

Alrighty then.

Metal Gear Rex
February 7th, 2014, 19:00
Maiden Web didn't work. The other two spells crashed the game. I can't say I'm surprised, but there you go. Nothing I can really do to test those abilities / stats.

SADevil
February 8th, 2014, 11:45
I have tested Poison Spit and it takes half of 1 level Knight's health in 50 seconds. Second Poison Spit kills Knight (very slowly). So it does 2000 damage in 50 seconds.

Web dosn't seem to slow target but from time to time it really speeds it up. After two uses of Web on Giant he started to run unnaturally quickly, but result wasn't consistent. One or six uses of the Web didn't have any effect. But all of this was pretty random, so I can't give accurate info on this matter.

Metal Gear Rex
February 8th, 2014, 12:07
I have tested Poison Spit and it takes half of 1 level Knight's health in 50 seconds. Second Poison Spit kills Knight (very slowly). So it does 2000 damage in 50 seconds.

Oh I see. So the first value in the Spell's data is the damage, and the second value is the number of times the spell hits. I'm assuming the Health value in the shot defines how frequently the spell deals damage. What game speed were you running it at? If at 100%, then I would assume the Poison Spit Shot's Health drops by 4 every second, so after 5 seconds, the Health hits 0 deals 200 damage to the target, eventually leading up to the 2000 damage over 50 seconds as you said. Could test this by dropping the Health to 10 and seeing the Knight takes damage twice as fast.

How very interesting to see this spell working. Hearing about this makes me both excited and sad. I would love to impliment this in my patch but alas.


Web dosn't seem to slow target but from time to time it really speeds it up. After two uses of Web on Giant he started to run unnaturally quickly, but result wasn't consistent. One or six uses of the Web didn't have any effect. But all of this was pretty random, so I can't give accurate info on this matter.

I'm not entirely surprised. In the 1.3 version of the game, the Slow spell was bugged and would often cancel itself out or have a null effect. It was really glitchy in general and forced me to remove it, at least as a Creature spell. So this means they probably never fixed it in 1.7. However, I'm confused as to why the spell speeds up the Giant. I have to wonder how the hell they managed to screw that one up, rushed or no.

SADevil
February 8th, 2014, 16:29
Oh I see. So the first value in the Spell's data is the damage, and the second value is the number of times the spell hits. I'm assuming the Health value in the shot defines how frequently the spell deals damage. What game speed were you running it at? If at 100%, then I would assume the Poison Spit Shot's Health drops by 4 every second, so after 5 seconds, the Health hits 0 deals 200 damage to the target, eventually leading up to the 2000 damage over 50 seconds as you said. Could test this by dropping the Health to 10 and seeing the Knight takes damage twice as fast.
I haven't changed anything, so it must be standart speed.

Update:
I've added more information on abilities to the list.

Endrix
October 17th, 2017, 10:21
I´m surprised that the troll have the same stats like the firefly :eek:

SADevil
October 17th, 2017, 13:07
Yep, pretty silly after what the manual states:

In combat, its great size and strength mean it
will take to the front-line attempting to block the
progress of an enemy encroachment.

Endrix
September 16th, 2018, 14:03
Maiden Poison Spit realy has 2000 Damage?

tonihele
September 17th, 2018, 15:56
Or 200? At least on my version.

Endrix
September 17th, 2018, 23:13
On this page stands 2000. Maybe 10 hits over time?

Metal Gear Rex
September 17th, 2018, 23:23
Yes it's 2000 damage, 200 done over 10 hits, which is 2.5 game seconds. Or at least that's how it should work. I think I remember one of the Maiden's spells not functioning properly at all, but I don't remember which one.

It's a level 8 spell so, while stronger than most spells, it's at best a balanced spell assuming it works. Probably doesn't look balanced compared to all those other terrible spells.

SADevil
September 19th, 2018, 11:59
As far as I remember, my tests showed that Maiden Poison Spit deals damage over ~50 seconds. And its shot properties have Data 1: 50. So I could assume that this is a duration of the ability. But I can be wrong because DK2 Editor is pretty uninformative.

Update:
Here's a quote from our earlier discussion:

I have tested Poison Spit and it takes half of 1 level Knight's health in 50 seconds. Second Poison Spit kills Knight (very slowly). So it does 2000 damage in 50 seconds.

Metal Gear Rex
September 19th, 2018, 14:14
As far as I remember, my tests showed that Maiden Poison Spit deals damage over ~50 seconds. And its shot properties have Data 1: 50. So I could assume that this is a duration of the ability. But I can be wrong because DK2 Editor is pretty uninformative.

Update:
Here's a quote from our earlier discussion:

Shot properties' Data stats tend to be ignored entirely, in favor of Creature Spell properties' Data stats, which provide 200 and 10 respectively. I'm not sure what the 10 is then, but if it's 2k damage then it's logical to assume the second data value is the total amount of hits. Poison Spit is an entirely new Process Type, so it's possible they set it to deal damage every 5 seconds until it hits a certain number of times, so the 10. Unless of course the values are bogus and it's hardcoded to do certain stuff, which is also possible.

Unfortunately I can't really test it as I don't have functional 1.7 on me, but I'm sure someone else could by changing the 10 to like 2 and see if it deals 400 damage over 10 seconds, and kills a Level 1 Mistress (2k health) with 5 poisons.