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View Full Version : Don't you think it's time we had a new DK1 Editor?



darkkingkongman
August 12th, 2015, 21:11
Okay I know that they're three dk1 editors as it is. But wouldn't it be great if we had a new editor similar to the dk2 editor? Would make making maps quicker and less complex than using Adikted.

YourMaster
August 12th, 2015, 22:10
Not to sound like a jerk, but: Yes, great. Now what? Will you make one?

The community here is so small that among us there aren't a whole lot of software developers who can take on such a massive project, especially since a few that might have left to do WftO.
Now there are some people developing KeeperFX in their spare time, are you saying they should stop work on KeeperFX and spend time on this editor instead?
Keep in mind that if rewriting KeeperFX is complete new features could more easily be added, high resolution sprites can be introduced, current limitations(like the number of IF-statements in a map or total number of creatures in a game) can be addressed and fundamental problems like the pathfinding bug can be solved. All this can and should enable map-makers to do stuff in maps that are currently impossible.

If there was a new editor (or simply a GUI written on top of Adikted), this would only make mapmaking easier/faster at best, and would not lead to additional possibilities. It is hard to who is still working on maps - hardly any are still released - but my guess is that most of the people who are can either work with Adikted easily enough, or want to make maps that can be done with the official editor no problem. Those people would rather get some new features to work with rather than a better editor.

Besides, I think the actual time spent in the editor is just a small part of the time spent on making a map. Designing, scripting, playtesting, balancing it all out, fixing it, fighting against the game limitations all take a lot more time. Unless a map is simply drawn and hardly scripted, in which case there are quite a bit of those maps already. I would prefer quality over quantity, but at the moment nobody has any suggestions for some really great maps (https://keeperklan.com/threads/4528-10-best-community-maps).

Woudo
August 13th, 2015, 05:55
What's wrong with Adikted? I've yet to have a situation where I couldn't do something and Adikted was the one at fault.


Designing, scripting, playtesting, balancing it all out, fixing it, fighting against the game limitations all take a lot more time.
Yeah, fuck this shit right here. It's hard to make complex maps when you're constantly battling the pathfinding bug, the IF/Tunneler/Party limits and the limited script availability.

darkkingkongman
August 13th, 2015, 06:26
It was only a suggestion...

YourMaster
August 13th, 2015, 08:06
Yeah, and nobody is angry for you for making that suggestion,....

And for me it was an honest question, it sure is great to want things, but how do you want to accomplish this?

Woudo
August 13th, 2015, 08:50
I'm angry at both of you for having long names that don't lend themselves to a decent nickname.

YourMaster
August 13th, 2015, 10:51
Well, Dark - king kong - man, could be called 'Ape', and just call me Bob.

Metal Gear Rex
August 13th, 2015, 20:34
You know, this is exactly what I needed to get me into the DK1 mapmaking scene. A good old fashion DK2 map editor, but for DK1.

*snaps fingers*

Get to it, Bobby. Your Ape friend can tag along too.

YourMaster
August 13th, 2015, 20:37
Don't call me bobby. I selected Bob because it is a 3 letter name, so don't add 2 more letters. If I could have 5 letters I would have gone with 'Prince' instead.

Hades
August 14th, 2015, 20:23
Adikted does its job. Sure the learning curve is steep but once you get the hang of it, you're sweet.

0etelaer
April 26th, 2016, 10:38
The question should be, will Adikted get updated?


Bugs may be an exaggeration, but I had downloaded several maps made in Adikted that didn't work, because the creator would forget to update the map before he or she uploaded it.

Implementing a way to have all maps saved 100% working.
A warning sign would already be helpful. :)
It would improve the map created in general, but also make creating maps less annoying.


The Adikted script editor is also not working very well, because it doesn't recognize newer discovered commands.
For example, it doesn't read RANDOM, so I can't use it to test scripts.
Back to notepad and manual debugging. :(

Repairing the script debugger from the documentation available now, doesn't look like hard task to me, although will take some time.


One can not see how columns are changed in column mode, although I wouldn't know how to solve that. :confused:


Height is very irritating, placing things do not recognize height in the blocks. With temple or guard house, it becomes a problem.


Further Adikted is fine. :rolleyes:
It is many times better than the Dungeon Keeper map maker.

YourMaster
April 26th, 2016, 13:13
All signs point to no.

The original author seems to have long abandoned it. Mefistotelis - the keeperfx creator - has made an important update a few years ago but as it seems to mostly function he has focused on KeeperFX. Unfortunately he seems to have lost motivation to work on KeeperFX as well and after making some wonderful new additions for the next release also introduced some mayor bugs and just left it there. I hope at some point he returns at least for a little bit, reverts the changes that didn't work well and release a 0.4.7 version before he fully abandons the project.
With this in mind, it doesn't seem likely that he'll just decide to work on AdiKted again.

But who know, perhaps tomorrow a developer stops by here and he'll decide to work on the editor.

0etelaer
April 27th, 2016, 03:49
Yes, I know. Mefistoteles already said some years ago, that he didn't want to work on Adikted any more.
And I don't mind, because I very much disagree on several choices he made in KeeperFX.

Making new codes made KeeperFX incompatible to Dungeon Keeper. If Mefistoteles would update Adikted now, he would implement his KeeperFX codes also, and I would than choose to use the earlier version of Adikted any ways, if I ever make a map again.

I highly disagree with changing the game, in whatever way, and get irritated every time for the small changes in gameplay mefistoteles made in my older version of KeeperFX. KeeperFX should be a way to install Dungeon Keeper in the newer computers, and if the hanging of the game could be solved that would also be awe some, but making a new game is not the purpose of KeeperFX. He'd than better than go to call it MefistolesFX, or something like that.

Woudo
April 27th, 2016, 04:31
I've never used the script editor in Adikted because.. why? You can just open up the .txt file with notepad++ and go from there. Whenever I open Notepad++, it also opens COPY-PASTE which has all the room/creature/trap availabilities that I can then quickly modify. Usually have a bunch of other level scripts open as well so I can lift other scripts like parties and party triggers.
A map with a keeper focus that only has a few hero parties takes literally 2-3 minutes to script this way.

I wish Mef would come back at least briefly for this pathfinding bug as well.

0etelaer
April 27th, 2016, 08:52
Dzjeear had made a standard file to script on, in order to increase the speed of scripting.
I would post it on my Dungeon Keeper website, that has gone now because that hosting company would stop hosting websites.
The wallpaper at http://keeper.lubiki.pl looked like the wbesite I had made, Dungkeep at Geocities.
I've been using notepad++ also for several years now. I use it for many things, mostly for .css coding.

I prefer to make scripts on windows notepad though, and I was also not content with the standard that Dzjeear used.
I once made a better one, I thought so, but really did not use it much.
I like to use notepad, because I can put the background color to gray, in order to save my eyes and have less aggression from the screen.
And use other scripts to copy and paste from, and the documentation.
It takes some time longer to script, but I need time to calculate things out also, just my way of doing it.
I sometimes switch to notepad++ from notepad, but work mostly on notepad and from the keeper/levels directory.

A debugger, in a program that is open anyway, is helpful though
So I still think implementing the commands discovered by fans, after Adikted was updated before this new DK community started, would NOT be a waste of time.

Great that there is a DK community now, however small, there was none for several years just after DK2 was published.

YourMaster
April 27th, 2016, 09:09
I've made a small plugin (https://keeperklan.com/threads/4802-DK-Level-script-plugin-for-Notepad) for notepad++ I use myself, which helps in speed of scripting and preventing mistakes because it has context highlighting and autocomplete.