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chrisssj2
February 11th, 2010, 10:36
I mean i don't have any bugs problem or whatever.

Does it add anything new? Like improved grahpics, a.i or multiplayer?

Would it be worth for someone like me?

DragonsLover
February 11th, 2010, 10:43
KeeperFX has a better compatibility with today's computers and OS. It also has some additional features like: a campaign selection list, selection of Keeper to play in Skirmish mode, new script commands in levels and temple sacrifice recipes, correction of bugs, reduction of speed for the Deeper Dungeons level selection list (yes, Deeper Dungeons is included) and some more. Just check the changelog (http://keeper.lubie.org/html/dk_keeperfx_read.php) of the program on Mefisto's website for all the things that have been changed.

dotted
February 11th, 2010, 10:52
I mean i don't have any bugs problem or whatever.

Does it add anything new? Like improved grahpics, a.i or multiplayer?

Would it be worth for someone like me?

I don't think the graphics will change, but multiplayer support bas been started, although not even close to even work yet.

But KeeperFX also adds additional levels and campaigns so it's up to you. But tbh nothing stops you from having both the original and KeeperFX installed.

Krizzie
February 11th, 2010, 10:58
Well it does support higher resolutions, but they aren't stable yet.

chrisssj2
February 11th, 2010, 11:00
Yeah that's true but the game crashes after it loads any level as i stated in another topic,(with a logfile). So Im wondering if it's worth to fix it.

New levels, are they any good?

Anycase it seems Im just as good off with orginial DK 1. Since my dk1 works.

thanks.

A New Room
February 11th, 2010, 11:05
The main reason I think FX is better, aside from the fact DK doesn't work for me any more, is because it is still being worked on to fix bugs and improve on things that Bullfrog didn't have time for.

chrisssj2
February 11th, 2010, 11:16
I tried the 1024 x 768 res
The colours are purple white strangish... So yeah doesn't still work.

By the way i just tried to import save game from keeper into the keeperfx

but it crashed... And im not going to play all over .. :(

Isn't there a cheat or something or other workaround for me?

ty

Krizzie
February 11th, 2010, 11:18
You should set the game to 640x480 instead of 640x400, that solves 99% of the crashes.

How to do this is shown in the readme file of keeperfx.

chrisssj2
February 11th, 2010, 21:41
Btw keeperfx also doesnt have deeper dungeons I see.

A New Room
February 11th, 2010, 21:43
Its in free play levels I think...

Pizu_Meaku
February 12th, 2010, 20:19
Lets just call KeeperFX one big BETA to awesomeness which Mesfitsolis got us all believe in :) for reasons.

chrisssj2
February 15th, 2010, 22:34
the new .035 version still doesn't support resolutions above 640x480 :( but nice campaigns :)

A New Room
February 15th, 2010, 22:41
I played KeeperFX on a large HD screen, it was awesome...

Krizzie
February 16th, 2010, 09:24
the new .035 version still doesn't support resolutions above 640x480 :( but nice campaigns :)

I play it on a 24" (1920x1200) screen and it looks just fine on 640x480. ;) Don't expect modern graphics from a game that is over 10 years old. ;)

I tried 1024x768, which looked the same only the HUD was smaller and you had more view of the land. But the smaller HUD makes it annoying to play. And the game is not stable enough to play for longer periods of time.

chrisssj2
February 16th, 2010, 10:11
not to mention the purpleish colours xD

Babax
April 2nd, 2010, 19:34
not to mention the purpleish colours xD

Purpleish colors can be fixed by setting desktop color to 16 bit. colors instead of 32 bit. This usually helps with the color trouble (same with Total Annihilation was). Or try compatibility mode with 256 colors.

And by the way - it would be good to have a HD textures thread, where we can see how to extract the textures from DK and create HD copy of them. Any ideas?

DragonsLover
April 3rd, 2010, 01:19
For now, it's already possible to extract and replace textures, and Synesthesia already did an awesome job for some textures of the game, but I'm wondering if there's some kind of limitation with size and resolution of the textures.

Madkill
April 3rd, 2010, 04:37
Where's a link to those textures by the way?

Babax
April 3rd, 2010, 09:53
For now, it's already possible to extract and replace textures, and Synesthesia already did an awesome job for some textures of the game, but I'm wondering if there's some kind of limitation with size and resolution of the textures.

Link please :P

DragonsLover
April 3rd, 2010, 20:12
I have included all the DK1 textures in a zip file using the darkest (and default) colour palette. I extracted them using DKTools v0.9.5.0 (http://dungeon-keeper.net/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=79&func=fileinfo&id=92). You can also, if you want, edit single tiles with the program.

Each tile is 32 x 32.

Babax
April 4th, 2010, 19:52
I have included all the DK1 textures in a zip file using the darkest (and default) colour palette. I extracted them using DKTools v0.9.5.0 (http://dungeon-keeper.net/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=79&func=fileinfo&id=92). You can also, if you want, edit single tiles with the program.

Each tile is 32 x 32.

Thanks. Are theese the original ones? It seems so. Can they be modified to 64x64 pixel textures? Can I use Hi-color pallete?

DragonsLover
April 5th, 2010, 07:09
Yes they are original.

As for if they can be modified to 64 x 64, yes, you can, but the game couldn't support them I guess. Only Mefisto could tell if it's possible. As for using High Colour palette, it's a big NO as the textures use the colour palette of the game which is limited to 256.

Babax
April 5th, 2010, 09:24
....

I guess Mefisto can also tell if there is opportunity to support 16 bit color for textures in the future?

mefistotelis
April 5th, 2010, 12:48
No texture-related code is currently rewritten. And I'm not planning to get into it any time soon.

Currently, both size and colour depth of textures are fixed and can't be changed.

Babax
April 5th, 2010, 14:37
No texture-related code is currently rewritten. And I'm not planning to get into it any time soon.

Currently, both size and colour depth of textures are fixed and can't be changed.

Thanks for your reply. I guess there is no way that texture-related parts of code can be taken from IKSLM DK source and implemented in KeeperFX.

natchoguy
April 5th, 2010, 15:11
Sorry for the off-topicness but it was mentioned in a thread how to fix the in-game half-screen problem. What was the solution again?

Mothrayas
April 5th, 2010, 15:17
Thanks for your reply. I guess there is no way that texture-related parts of code can be taken from IKSLM DK source and implemented in KeeperFX.

Actually, they can, but mefistotelis would need to rewrite the texture code for that and like he posted he isn't planning to do that anytime soon.

p_hansson
April 11th, 2010, 20:42
The difficulty is not in writing modern 3D API code that does much nicer looking rendering than the DK software renderer; the problem is the huge number of dependencies from DK code on the existing renderer. To replace the renderer means you'll have to not only have to write an improved version, but you have to also update a lot (1000s of lines) of unrelated legacy code that depends on the present renderer having exactly a certain interface.

Either way, much DK code hasn't even been rewritten yet from machine/assembler representation...

dragonfist
October 21st, 2010, 05:42
And even if a coder of KeeperFX would be able to do it, I would protest.
The drawing in Dungeon Keeper are perfect. You can not enhance them, by replacing the technology. Contrary, the game is coded from 256 in everything. The sculpture is so very well done, that you would have to develop a complete new color balance and theme. Meaning, you start to make a new game. Just think about the problem, to fit every pixel into balance with every sprite in the 3D space it is in. Where you can turn, zoom in and zoom out. In NBK maybe you can have a look on how the Sprites look. However well they may be done, the Sprites are not at home in the original textures. Repairing this artistic side, after destroying it by introducing new technology, is very hard without even knowing what concepts the Artist used, to get all colors and shapes seamless into one virtual reality. I have never seen a Polygon shape drawing game achieving that. But maybe some one has, every game creator tries to achieve it.

All games went to polygon buildings after Dungeon Keeper. But from an artist point of view, this is some what nonsense. In Dungeon Keeper the technology is invisible, and implemented, and that is how a good game looks like. Sides from other corners, can make the same 3D shapes, as now the movements of the Sprites are made in Dungeon Keeper. That's only from 2 sides in the original '95 game. If the same sprites where used from renderings something like 32 sides, made from the renderings of the 3D shapes in 3DStudio Max whatever, it would be possible to make a better 3D engine as the polygon building objects, that have to calculate corners in a shape. That's a lot more calculations are rendering polygons 12 times a second! Okay, telling the computer to give 1 image.

New Peter Molyneux game was Black and White.
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6596/11ahq.jpg
Ugly polygons more visible than living skin expression.

Color enhancement is impossible, once the colors are perfect.
Every change will make the image worse.
Pixel rendered sprites are a lot faster, than polygon rendered sprites. I played the demo of Black and White 2, that has mainly the graphics improved to acceptable standard, but it is extremely slow, although my computer can handle it, compared to the huge speed where in Dungeon keeper is played. And I bought Dungeon Keeper 2 years ago, but I just don't play it, because the graphics suck. Casino? Open space for a room is perfect, because it inspires people to think about what room there is possible.

Mothrayas
October 22nd, 2010, 15:35
mostly irrelevant crap with obnoxious image

Who says we need to get whole new polygon based 3D textures with whole new colors (the latter of which apparently means, a whole new game) when the primary purpose of this is just a quality improvement? Sure, DK1's textures may be nicely done, but a resolution and color improvement can only make it better without the need for whole different colors and all that crap. DK1 textures are pixelly and clearly have a restricted pallette, far from the "perfect" you seem to imply it to be.

Philipp
October 22nd, 2010, 17:40
Skirmish mode, new script commands in levels and temple sacrifice recipes

Is there a list of all (new) temple sacrifice recipes anywhere?

Metal Gear Rex
October 22nd, 2010, 21:32
Is there a list of all (new) temple sacrifice recipes anywhere?

Sacrifice data can be found inside of "rules.cfg" at the very bottom of the file. Said file is found inside of FX Data of your KeeperFX game folder.


MkGoodHero = HORNY SPIDER BILE_DEMON DARK_MISTRESS
MkCreature = HORNY DRAGON HELL_HOUND ORC
MkCreature = BILE_DEMON ORC ORC DEMONSPAWN
MkGoodHero = SKELETON SKELETON SKELETON
MkCreature = ORC TROLL TROLL
MkCreature = TROLL DEMONSPAWN SPIDER
MkCreature = TENTACLE BUG ORC
MkCreature = TENTACLE TROLL SPIDER
MkCreature = HELL_HOUND DRAGON FLY
MkCreature = HELL_HOUND DEMONSPAWN BUG
MkCreature = BUG DARK_MISTRESS DRAGON
MkCreature = FLY DRAGON HELL_HOUND
MkCreature = IMP DARK_MISTRESS HELL_HOUND
MkCreature = DEMONSPAWN TROLL BUG
PosSpellAll = SPEED FLY HELL_HOUND
PosSpellAll = INVISIBILITY TROLL FLY
PosSpellAll = HEAL ORC SPIDER
PosSpellAll = REBOUND DARK_MISTRESS BUG
PosSpellAll = ARMOUR BILE_DEMON BUG
PosSpellAll = FLY DEMONSPAWN FLY
NegSpellAll = FREEZE VAMPIRE SPIDER
NegSpellAll = SLOW VAMPIRE DEMONSPAWN

This time they actually belong inside of a spoiler, dotted :P

But yeah, in case you don't know or anything, VIEW AT YOUR OWN RISK. (Not sure if there's anybody who doesn't know though)

dragonfist
October 23rd, 2010, 20:53
DK1 textures are pixelly and clearly have a restricted pallette, far from the "perfect" you seem to imply it to be.Yes, and pixelly the polygon renderings are not. This is also their difference. But the human eye, locates fading objects from color, light and dark, not from lines. Polygons is a line based way of drawing, vector-based if you want, that assigns 3d objects into a not existing 3d illusion on a 2d screen. The way pixels portray shapes, gives a living impression, that is used by the great masters as Rembrandt, while other less great painters from his time, would use a line as a separation between objects in paintings. A rectangular pixel is the same shape as the monitor or plasma screen, while in Dungeon Keeper many pixels are transparent, as with some spell cast renderings, ghost, speed spell. The several layers the pixels are decided to by the computer, in order to make use of the 2d screen that interfaces the human to this stone, are all logical, more logical than than a polygon line, that will take extra works to make transparent, because transparency will give a new image there. Less freedom.

I'll have a look whether I can find an example.


http://www.rembrandtpainting.net/slf_prtrts/slf_prtrts_imgs/slfprtrt_as_zeus.jpg
Brushstrokelly Self portrait by Rembrandt

There are many more paintings you can observe, with which I try to make my point, over here;
http://www.rembrandtpainting.net/slf_prtrts/zeuxis.htm
The strokes of the brush are visible, but not any lines.
Still this painting is much better, than the ones I saw from other painters in his time.

This is just an opinion, that I share with Rembrandt, based on research, while other painters in his time, shared the opinion of vector based painting in lines, as opposed to surfaces. Pixels are surfaces, while polygons are lines between points, although mathematical shapes may also be used. Pixels are rectangular, any line there will disappear, and by that the drawing is done in the mind of the observer of the drawing, not by the computer.

Mothrayas
October 23rd, 2010, 21:19
other irrelevant crap about pixels and paintings by Rembrandt, including a GIANT IMAGE

Ever heard about linking to images?