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Duke Ragereaver
March 1st, 2010, 07:59
Here can you give suggestions to the RPG. If you think that will improve the quality, do not hestiate to post!

My own suggestion: I was thinking, should we take some WFTO suggestions and allow them in the RPG, mainly Creatures and Heroes ones? The only downside is it may not be considered faithful anymore to the DK games.

Metal Gear Rex
March 1st, 2010, 08:09
That actually would be really nice! We have to pick popular creatures though, like the Pixie, due to possible rejections of other ideas (*Sniffle* Byebye Maiden)

Also, I suggest we make the Hell Hound available by the Scavanger Room like he was in the orignal game now that the Scavanger Room is available, and the Tentacle could be attracted by just a Temple, due to the definiation of "Near water" as in how near?

Duke Ragereaver
March 1st, 2010, 08:33
That actually would be really nice! We have to pick popular creatures though, like the Pixie, due to possible rejections of other ideas (*Sniffle* Byebye Maiden)

Well, I don't think any Creature has universal support. For example, I don't really like the Pixie to be honest so my neutrality with picking WFTO stuff can automaticly be disputed. An other solution is to allow creature by popular vote, but I don't really like the thought of 20-30 polls either.

Anyway, I've quickly looked through the Creature and Heroes list, and came up with these. I may post spells and stuff later.

Creatures


Pixie (http://forum.keeperklan.com/pixie-t61.html)
Archlich (http://forum.keeperklan.com/archlich-t536.html) (could be too powerful for roleplayers)
The Berserker (http://forum.keeperklan.com/berserker-t141.html)
Chub Toad (http://forum.keeperklan.com/chub-toad-t529.html)
Ogre (http://forum.keeperklan.com/ogre-t549.html)
Grave Rider (http://forum.keeperklan.com/grave-rider-t696.html?t=696)
Zombie (http://forum.keeperklan.com/zombie-t417.html)
Succubus (http://forum.keeperklan.com/succubus-t387.html)
Medusa (http://forum.keeperklan.com/medusa-t427.html)


Heroes


Lancer (http://forum.keeperklan.com/lancer-t248.html)
Peasant (http://forum.keeperklan.com/peasant-t623.html)
Crossbowman (http://forum.keeperklan.com/crossbowman-t651.html)
Juggernaut (http://forum.keeperklan.com/juggernaut-t714.html)
Druid (http://forum.keeperklan.com/druid-t727.html)



Also, I suggest we make the Hell Hound available by the Scavanger Room like he was in the orignal game now that the Scavanger Room is available, and the Tentacle could be attracted by just a Temple, due to the definiation of "Near water" as in how near?

I still don't think the RPG Keepers will construct (with the possible exception of you?) a Scavenger Room sooner than a Temple. I do also see the Tentacle and Hellhound was 2 opposites here, fire and water.

I define ''near'' as within eyesight.

Metal Gear Rex
March 1st, 2010, 08:48
Well, I don't think any Creature has universal support. For example, I don't really like the Pixie to be honest so my neutrality with picking WFTO stuff can automaticly be disputed. An other solution is to allow creature by popular vote, but I don't really like the thought of 20-30 polls either.

Anyway, I've quickly looked through the Creature and Heroes list, and came up with these. I may post spells and stuff later.

Creatures


Pixie (http://forum.keeperklan.com/pixie-t61.html)
Archlich (http://forum.keeperklan.com/archlich-t536.html) (could be too powerful for roleplayers)
The Berserker (http://forum.keeperklan.com/berserker-t141.html)
Chub Toad (http://forum.keeperklan.com/chub-toad-t529.html)
Ogre (http://forum.keeperklan.com/ogre-t549.html)
Grave Rider (http://forum.keeperklan.com/grave-rider-t696.html?t=696)
Zombie (http://forum.keeperklan.com/zombie-t417.html)
Succubus (http://forum.keeperklan.com/succubus-t387.html)
Medusa (http://forum.keeperklan.com/medusa-t427.html)


Heroes


Lancer (http://forum.keeperklan.com/lancer-t248.html)
Peasant (http://forum.keeperklan.com/peasant-t623.html)
Crossbowman (http://forum.keeperklan.com/crossbowman-t651.html)
Juggernaut (http://forum.keeperklan.com/juggernaut-t714.html)
Druid (http://forum.keeperklan.com/druid-t727.html)


Hah! My Orge, Lancer, and Zombie made it! :D

PS: Zombie could be one body in the graveyard instead of five like Vampire.


I still don't think the RPG Keepers will construct (with the possible exception of you?) a Scavenger Room sooner than a Temple. I do also see the Tentacle and Hellhound was 2 opposites here, fire and water.

I define ''near'' as within eyesight.

Ah okay, lolz yeah with all my transferings (Crystice) I'm gonna need it! I should get it soon along with some offensive spells/defensive hurting spells.

Duke Ragereaver
March 1st, 2010, 08:58
Hah! My Orge, Lancer, and Zombie made it! :D

PS: Zombie could be one body in the graveyard instead of five like Vampire.


I just did a quick search through the list, there are alot of ones that are left out so it's in no way complete.

I'd like to hear more opinions before I will even consider the thing of doing it; it's big and have big consequences for the RPG.

MeinCookie
March 1st, 2010, 09:02
Can we include my Gargoyle (http://forum.keeperklan.com/gargoyle-t645.html) suggestion? :D

Metal Gear Rex
March 1st, 2010, 09:12
I just did a quick search through the list, there are alot of ones that are left out so it's in no way complete.

I'd like to hear more opinions before I will even consider the thing of doing it; it's big and have big consequences for the RPG.

Oh right, of course.

We need to make sure they are overall balanced for the equal thing, and accepted by most if not all too... and some other things I'm missing.


Can we include my Gargoyle (http://forum.keeperklan.com/gargoyle-t645.html) suggestion? :D

Well I think Gargoyle is nice but none of that matters if it is undecided on if these should join or not. Hopefully some people will post their opinions tommarrow since this is a rather big oppertunity, I hope all goes well.

Oh and a new suggestion. We sticky this, and name it "Awakening Suggestion Thread" so I don't get confused with my own Suggestion Thread in my RPG when I spy on people-er-let's leave that last part out... :D

MeinCookie
March 1st, 2010, 09:36
Agreed... It would nice to have suggestion creatures in there.

But any entrants would have to be very well developed and limited in their appearances :eek:. Perhaps no more than one WtfO creature per person and three per a realm? It'll be worked out...

Now what was I doing before this thread came along? :confused:

Mothrayas
March 1st, 2010, 16:05
Can I say I don't like this idea?

obliven1993
March 1st, 2010, 21:12
Well, I don't think any Creature has universal support. For example, I don't really like the Pixie to be honest so my neutrality with picking WFTO stuff can automaticly be disputed. An other solution is to allow creature by popular vote, but I don't really like the thought of 20-30 polls either.

Anyway, I've quickly looked through the Creature and Heroes list, and came up with these. I may post spells and stuff later.

Creatures


Pixie (http://forum.keeperklan.com/pixie-t61.html)
Archlich (http://forum.keeperklan.com/archlich-t536.html) (could be too powerful for roleplayers)
The Berserker (http://forum.keeperklan.com/berserker-t141.html)
Chub Toad (http://forum.keeperklan.com/chub-toad-t529.html)
Ogre (http://forum.keeperklan.com/ogre-t549.html)
Grave Rider (http://forum.keeperklan.com/grave-rider-t696.html?t=696)
Zombie (http://forum.keeperklan.com/zombie-t417.html)
Succubus (http://forum.keeperklan.com/succubus-t387.html)
Medusa (http://forum.keeperklan.com/medusa-t427.html)


Heroes


Lancer (http://forum.keeperklan.com/lancer-t248.html)
Peasant (http://forum.keeperklan.com/peasant-t623.html)
Crossbowman (http://forum.keeperklan.com/crossbowman-t651.html)
Juggernaut (http://forum.keeperklan.com/juggernaut-t714.html)
Druid (http://forum.keeperklan.com/druid-t727.html)




I still don't think the RPG Keepers will construct (with the possible exception of you?) a Scavenger Room sooner than a Temple. I do also see the Tentacle and Hellhound was 2 opposites here, fire and water.

I define ''near'' as within eyesight.

*flips glasses out of front of eyes* the succubus? YAY! the idea which me and evi worked on...and the pixie too!

Evi
March 1st, 2010, 21:36
I support this suggestion! :D

MeinCookie
March 2nd, 2010, 08:53
I also do, i guess, but in a limited way. With your polls, will all members vote or just role-players?

Metal Gear Rex
March 2nd, 2010, 08:59
I also do, i guess, but in a limited way. With your polls, will all members vote or just role-players?

Well I guess Duke would make it public then, to see who's voting. Then we could determine if Role Players are voting only. Actually, Duke, I like the Poll idea.

Simply have a gathering of a bunch of creatures, then have a multi option poll of 10 options, 9 of them are the creatures and the last should be something like a no option for all of the above.

Oh do I have to make it offitial? Yes I support this strongly!

Duke Ragereaver
March 7th, 2010, 09:48
Well I guess Duke would make it public then, to see who's voting. Then we could determine if Role Players are voting only. Actually, Duke, I like the Poll idea.

Simply have a gathering of a bunch of creatures, then have a multi option poll of 10 options, 9 of them are the creatures and the last should be something like a no option for all of the above.

Oh do I have to make it offitial? Yes I support this strongly!

I'l make a poll about it first to look if there is enough support for it. From there we'l see.

Metal Gear Rex
March 30th, 2012, 19:10
What do people think of splitting the Fly into the Fly and the Firefly? The differences would be with the Fly being much faster while the Firefly being significantly stronger, or even (slightly) more magical. It'd be pretty similar to having the Human Archer and Elven Archer as separate classes, except with more differences compared to the current Human/Elven Archer.

On that note, what do people think of me changing the Elven Archer to be more magical but the Human Archer being faster/more accurate? Since they're both playable, I think there should be some defined differences for the default/generic variation of both classes instead of the Elven Archer being just generally greater than the Human Archer.

ARMofORION
March 30th, 2012, 20:48
What do people think of splitting the Fly into the Fly and the Firefly? The differences would be with the Fly being much faster while the Firefly being significantly stronger, or even (slightly) more magical. It'd be pretty similar to having the Human Archer and Elven Archer as separate classes, except with more differences compared to the current Human/Elven Archer.

On that note, what do people think of me changing the Elven Archer to be more magical but the Human Archer being faster/more accurate? Since they're both playable, I think there should be some defined differences for the default/generic variation of both classes instead of the Elven Archer being just generally greater than the Human Archer.

Agree on both.
Edit: Swap magic on Human and Faster/Accurate on Elven.

MeinCookie
March 30th, 2012, 23:10
Agreed on firefly.

Metal Gear Rex
March 30th, 2012, 23:18
Edit: Swap magic on Human and Faster/Accurate on Elven.

I think Elven should hold the magic. Elven Archers in DK2 generally seemed to be a bit magical with the effects they had with their Arrows. (Or Guided Arrow at least)


Agreed on firefly.

But not on the Archers? :warlock:

MeinCookie
March 30th, 2012, 23:22
That too, you just have to make it clear on creature pages the general differentiation between creatures.

Metal Gear Rex
March 30th, 2012, 23:28
That too, you just have to make it clear on creature pages the general differentiation between creatures.

I will do so. After the results of the MotN/DA/HR, I will be adding characteristics for all Creatures and updating the characteristics on the Heroes.

Metal Gear Rex
April 2nd, 2012, 13:29
So does anyone have any rejection of the Fly/Firefly and Human/Elven Archer suggestion? It's not that big of a change so if no one disproves, then I'll add it at the end of the day.

As I was looking through the Traps and Doors, I noticed the various Traps we didn't have. Lava Trap, Trigger Trap, and the Word of Power/Inferno Trap. I understand that the former two were rather overpowered and useless respectfully, but why was the third one not included? Would people desire to add an Inferno Trap?

Also, I would like to add a Lava and Trigger Trap. For the Lava Trap, the changes that would be made would be that it cannot be built adjacent to any wall nor a fellow Lava Trap. Its lava is also significantly weaker than normal lava. (And keep in mind that it takes up only a single tile so more agile Creatures could jump over it) As for the Trigger Trap, perhaps all Traps adjacent to it remain invisible until it is triggered? (Might be effective with say a Boulder Trap)

(And as an extra note, the Spike Trap got neglected when icons were being passed out)

Skarok
April 2nd, 2012, 13:33
Nothing against more variety would be a nice addition.

I'd like an inferno and trigger tap, though I'm undecided about the lave one. Trigger trap would also be more useful if they wouldn't get destroyed by a boulder trap that rolls over them, they'd be really useful then, actually.

Metal Gear Rex
April 2nd, 2012, 13:37
Nothing against more variety would be a nice addition.

I'd like an inferno and trigger tap, though I'm undecided about the lave one. Trigger trap would also be more useful if they wouldn't get destroyed by a boulder trap that rolls over them, they'd be really useful then, actually.

Well Boulder Traps are pretty one time use so it would have to be replaced anyways. I'm thinking of also making the Trigger Trap a one time use but making it very easy to mass produce. I mean, once the Traps are revealed, the Trigger Trap isn't very useful anymore is it?

MeinCookie
April 2nd, 2012, 13:38
Now might be a time to note that there are trigger traps already in RCI. They were part of NK's original map plan and they remain, meaning that they are somewhat already approved since that map was approved. Guess what? They ain't useless =D. Even your own workshop experience experiment included them.

If you ask me they are part of the RP, its just that old pages are out of date.

ARMofORION
April 2nd, 2012, 13:41
Well Boulder Traps are pretty one time use so it would have to be replaced anyways. I'm thinking of also making the Trigger Trap a one time use but making it very easy to mass produce. I mean, once the Traps are revealed, the Trigger Trap isn't very useful anymore is it?
Weak but easily built.

Metal Gear Rex
April 2nd, 2012, 13:41
If you ask me they are part of the RP, its just that old pages are out of date.

Probably. Duke never touched the RPG Rules Trap/Doors post. Never.


Weak but easily built.

Of course. Trigger Traps were never that strong and don't look that strong to begin with.

Metal Gear Rex
April 3rd, 2012, 01:14
Alright, so I've added the Firefly and I've also updated the Spell Sets of all Creatures. I'll get the Heroes updated later.

Metal Gear Rex
April 6th, 2012, 01:49
So as of now... Inferno Trap and Trigger Trap both seem pretty good to go but Lava Trap is questionable.

I'm going to make a decision on Friday night, so you have by then to give me your opinion.

ARMofORION
April 6th, 2012, 01:58
So as of now... Inferno Trap and Trigger Trap both seem pretty good to go but Lava Trap is questionable.

I'm going to make a decision on Friday night, so you have by then to give me your opinion.

Lava trap: fragile and difficult to make (Takes the longest to be built), limit on how many can be produced by a workshop by size (3X3=1 lava, 5X5=3, ect.)
Lava is weaker, and cannot be triggered by stealthy or flying creatures.

Metal Gear Rex
April 6th, 2012, 02:05
Lava trap: fragile and difficult to make (Takes the longest to be built), limit on how many can be produced by a workshop by size (3X3=1 lava, 5X5=3, ect.)
Lava is weaker, and cannot be triggered by stealthy or flying creatures.

I don't think some of those limitations will work, but they may be too limiting when combined with my earlier suggested ideas. However, I agree that Flying should not trigger it. Stealthy Creatures, I think it depends on the Creature. Just about any trap can be bypassed if a Creature is stealthy enough.


For the Lava Trap, the changes that would be made would be that it cannot be built adjacent to any wall nor a fellow Lava Trap. Its lava is also significantly weaker than normal lava. (And keep in mind that it takes up only a single tile so more agile Creatures could jump over it)

ARMofORION
April 6th, 2012, 02:08
By stealthy I'm referring to Rogues and Thieves. They can just walk over it, and it will not trigger.

Metal Gear Rex
April 6th, 2012, 02:19
By stealthy I'm referring to Rogues and Thieves. They can just walk over it, and it will not trigger.

Perhaps, but only if they're stealthily walking. And not running around like... Vermillion.

ARMofORION
April 6th, 2012, 02:22
Perhaps, but only if they're stealthily walking. And not running around like... Vermillion.

No, not if they are running like a crazied, rabid and insane person.

Metal Gear Rex
April 7th, 2012, 00:35
Trigger Trap and Inferno Trap are accepted. Lava Trap will have to wait another day.

Metal Gear Rex
April 17th, 2012, 17:59
Here's some ideas I've been thinking about lately...

Reduce the Effects of Speed Monster from 200% to 150%?
Speed Monster is a very powerful buff, both in battle and out. In DK1, I can very easily argue that it is overpowered, and the same applies to the Awakening. It doubles a Unit's abilities, allowing them to attack twice as fast, move across a battlefield twice as fast, research, manufacture... you get the idea. I'm certain we can all agree on the Multiply Creature special being broken... Speed Monster is pretty much the same as that. A doubling buff is essentially the same as having a second copy of the Creature.

A reduction from a 100% boost to a 50% boost should make the ability more fair. Fair enough that I think we could also move Speed Group from the NPC Only Spells to the Normal Spells.



More Usefulness for the Hold Audience and Call-to-Arms Keeper Spells?
Both of these Spells seem pretty worthless in the Awakening... Call-to-Arms had its usefulness in the games but in the Awakening, Keepers can easily order Creatures to head out to battle and move to a specific point. I was thinking of various ideas such as allowing the Call-to-Arms to create some sort of "Field" that extends 2-4 tiles around the Call-to-Arms flag, allowing the Keeper to cast "defensive" spells such as Lightning or Inferno in there. Alternatively, Keeper and/or Protective magic cast within the Field will have a slightly increased effect, perhaps a boost of 10-20%? One last idea would be that there is a reduction in Mana Cost, if we do end up implementing that idea.

As for Hold Audience, it never really was useful in the original game and is even more useless in the Awakening as Keepers can easily pick up and drop Creatures from Point A to Point B. I couldn't get many ideas for this one... perhaps it could act as an instant teleportation for all Creatures to any part of the Player's dungeon? Just a thought, though it isn't much better than the current usage, admittedly. Does anyone else have an idea?



Implement a Mana System?
Lastly, for the Spell related suggestions anyways, should we create some sort of Mana System? It would allow for Keeper RPers to have a better feel for what Spells they can cast when, and could create a drawback to excessive Traps. This is more so something that needs a response from the fellow Keepers, Mothrayas and MeinCookie, as it doesn't really effect normal Creatures in any noticeable/direct way. I also will be posting my own Mana System after experimenting in Northland. It will essentially serve more as a set of Guidelines rather than be an "official" Mana System that is forced to follow.



Tunnellers Detecting Secret Doors
Just an extra perk to Tunnellers and to give Heroes a way to counter the Secret Door. Tunnellers detecting Secret Doors. Well, it makes logical sense, that's for sure. I can't see a real reason why not. Any rejects on this idea?



Room Size Impact
I was thinking that we could expand (or implement, rather) emphasis on Room Size, now that all the Realms are measured by tiles. At the moment, there's no difference between Kuroki's miniature Workshop and Tesonu's oversized Workshop. There's practically no point in expanding beyond a 3x3 room, and I think that should be changed.

Ideas related to how Room Size could have an effect is simply with capacity. 3x3 Prison allows 2 Prisoners, 4x4 allows 5, etc.

Additionally, it could also effect efficiency in other rooms, such as the Library. If the Library is too small, there's a decrease in efficiency. Alternatively, if it is significantly large, there's a small increase. I think this would be measured by how many "furniture" pieces there are, not counting the ones on the walls. With a 3x3 Room and only one furniture piece, the efficiency would be 76%. With every additional piece of furniture, it increases by 3% until we end up with 100% with 9 furniture pieces. A 5x5 room in other words. Going beyond that would increase the efficiency by 2%, stopping at 115% with 17 or more furniture pieces. (16 furniture pieces = 6x6 room)

We'd end up with something like this:


17+ = 115%
16 = 114%
15 = 112%
14 = 110%
13 = 108%
12 = 106%
11 = 104%
10 = 102%
9 = 100%
8 = 97%
7 = 94%
6 = 91%
5 = 88%
4 = 85%
3 = 82%
2 = 79%
1 = 76%

Room Efficiency would admittedly be difficult for others to measure unless they have some sort of system of work like what Moth and I have established. At the least, it would only truly apply to the Library, Workshop, and Training Room. Research in the Library is done by Keepers anyways, in which case only Moth, Cookie, and I have to worry about that. I would like to really implement this idea, even if it is only used by a few RPers. (A few is a lot here anyways :P)

MeinCookie
April 17th, 2012, 21:33
Hold Audience could teleport units to any room owned by a player, and stun/WoP/damage any enemy troops there on calldown?

A bit dubious about changing the Call-to-Arms if only because Rattus has one right at Kuroki's heart =/

Agree on Tunnelers.

I think a Mana system might be a thing best implemented by personal preference among Keepers.

Also you're room sizes doesn't account for the Combat Pit. Rooms like Lair and CP need to have an equivalent rating in terms of capacity/available squares.

Metal Gear Rex
April 17th, 2012, 22:16
Hold Audience could teleport units to any room owned by a player, and stun/WoP/damage any enemy troops there on calldown?

Rather questionable. Seems too useful and powerful, in addition to being easily exploitable.

Here's a new idea. What if Hold Audience actually froze all Creatures within a certain radius for a certain period of time? It would effect both enemies and allies, making it a defensive only ability in that a Keeper's own Creatures won't be able to engage combat with them as they would also freeze in time. Keeper can't interact in this area either. (Meaning he won't be able to pick up a Creature of his that froze itself) This would have a large mana cost and would have some sort of cool down of 100 posts, preventing it from being spammable.

Hold Audience was supposed to be some sort of "Final Defense" or "Last Resort" move. I figure that this new idea would accomplish something similar, but with a different approach. It buys a Keeper time to reunite his Creatures and mobilize to form one last defense. This extra time could also be used to try and finish up something in an emergency, like a Trap or a Spell that would aid in battle.

Thoughts?


A bit dubious about changing the Call-to-Arms if only because Rattus has one right at Kuroki's heart =/

Well I don't think we should put down an idea simply because it would have a negative effect on Kuroki currently :P Remember that it won't actually effect him unless there's a battle going on there. That and, you can counter with your own Call-to-Arms spell.


I think a Mana system might be a thing best implemented by personal preference among Keepers.

I see. So depending on what Moth says, if anything, I may just end up going with my original plan.


Also you're room sizes doesn't account for the Combat Pit. Rooms like Lair and CP need to have an equivalent rating in terms of capacity/available squares.

Combat Pit would be similar to the Prison. In other words, its capacity would work the same way as it did in DK2. For every Pit tile, one Creature is allowed. Lair nor Hatchery I don't think should be effected too much, if at all. They're very simple and basic rooms.

* * * * *

While writing out the Hold Audience idea, I got an idea regarding the Armageddon Spell. Perhaps this could allow for the Armageddon Spell to join the Awakening.

Basically, what Armageddon will do is teleport all of the Keeper's Creatures, regardless of their location, to some sort of alternative and empty realm. Followed are all enemy Units, but only the ones that are on the Keeper's land. From there, the Creatures will fight with each other until one side wins, and then the victors will be transported to the castor's Dungeon Heart.

The Castor's Creatures will receive some sort of buff. They'll either be fully healed, receive a minor Speed/Protect buff or even a Rebound buff. (It will be the same for all Creatures, it just needs to be defined what the exact buff is) All buffs will be temporary, obviously. They won't last as long as they normally would, but will give the Castor's Creatures an edge/advantage earlier in the fight.

The disadvantage? The Keeper is cut off from his Creatures, so he cannot aid them in any way. This includes giving advice. Being as they're away from the Keeper's Land, there is no Trap or Door to help the Creatures either. The effects of Teleportation, Resurrection, and Invisibility are nullified. There is no terrain to take advantage of, nor can there be any retreat. This is a final stand, a last resort.

Like Hold Audience, there will be a large Mana Cost to cast and it cannot be re-cast for 100 or so posts. It's a more "complex" spell, but I find it especially interesting that way.

What do others think of it?

Metal Gear Rex
April 20th, 2012, 04:16
Ah, I nearly forgot another idea I had. How about the Fairy obtains two High Power Spells? They're pretty fragile so they'd probably need the power to make up for it.

MeinCookie
April 20th, 2012, 04:56
Fragility applies to many creatures including Mistresses, some insects, all sorts. Although admitedly Fairy is the most magical. I support, but do consider them too.

Metal Gear Rex
April 20th, 2012, 05:06
Fragility applies to many creatures including Mistresses, some insects, all sorts. Although admitedly Fairy is the most magical. I support, but do consider them too.

Dark Mistresses aren't as fragile, and they have some physical strength as well. (Though admittedly, not as magical) Plus they're fast. Beetles and Spiders receive their Awakening buffs so I wouldn't consider them fragile, with Spiders possessing the best magic of the three. Flies are the only real ones that are fragile but they make up for it by being the fastest out of any Creature.

So yeah... I don't think the others deserve such a feat. Mostly because they don't really have the magical properties and would only support one High Power spell :P

MeinCookie
April 20th, 2012, 05:11
Okay, I'm cool with that :D.

Searingflame2
April 20th, 2012, 05:17
Here's my take on a few things; not much in the history of the RPG outside of player creatures (and their numbers/skill sets) has been strictly regulated, and I don't think too much regulation is necessary.

We don't need to put a number on Speed Monster, for example. We can just agree that double speed is a bit much and we should keep it fair.

We don't need to specify that Hold Audience and Call to Arms give specific percentage bonuses or last a certain amount of time - we can just agree that they're useful. A creature in neutral or enemy territory nearby call to arms could fight a bit better, as reflected by Rpers not having their creature lose heaps of HP in what should be a fairly even fight (I still think most of us sell our creatures short =P) or, on the flipside, having Rattus' creatures kicking a bit more ass.
Hold Audience could do something similar; a creature wide teleport and increase in morale which subsequently results in better fighting.


I agree with MeinCookie on mana; self regulation. If a particular keeper wants to work on a basis by which spells can only be cast every X posts, or Y mana is regained per post and each spell costs Z mana, it doesn't really matter so long as it is relatively balanced.

Tunnelers, sure. There needs to be some kind of counter, and tunnelers are as good as any. Alternatively, I think a hero with Sight could provide the same spotting mechanism as they're able to see things 'as they more truly are'. But Tunnelers are intimately familiar with rock, and could be said to have sight of it.

Room efficiency I can agree on, but it is, again, something we don't need to put a number on. Perhaps we could implement suggestions that, say, Grot in RCI temporarily runs out of crafting resources and maybe lacks a certain tool, wheras creatures in Tesonu's dungeon have totally bitching resources and have more tools and work stations than they know what to do with.
I think we can leave most room efficiency stuff to player discretion.

Mothrayas
April 20th, 2012, 06:05
I pretty much agree with Searingflame2 on all points. I don't think we should be regulating too much, it takes away from the core that is RPing.

Metal Gear Rex
April 20th, 2012, 06:47
Here's my take on a few things; not much in the history of the RPG outside of player creatures (and their numbers/skill sets) has been strictly regulated, and I don't think too much regulation is necessary.

We don't need to put a number on Speed Monster, for example. We can just agree that double speed is a bit much and we should keep it fair.

We don't need to specify that Hold Audience and Call to Arms give specific percentage bonuses or last a certain amount of time - we can just agree that they're useful. A creature in neutral or enemy territory nearby call to arms could fight a bit better, as reflected by Rpers not having their creature lose heaps of HP in what should be a fairly even fight (I still think most of us sell our creatures short =P) or, on the flipside, having Rattus' creatures kicking a bit more ass.
Hold Audience could do something similar; a creature wide teleport and increase in morale which subsequently results in better fighting.

Actually, we do need to give these sorts of things some sort of universal definition. If we don't, then it will only create confusion and disorder as each ability's effect will differ from Player to Player. Imagine the confusion Speed Monster would create if one Player defines it as a small boost, such as ~20%, compared to someone who considers it to be a larger boost, say ~60%. If they're facing an enemy with Speed Monster, I'm certain it will create some conflicts if Person A believes that Person B is godmodding when he is dodging the enemy's attacks, because Person A thinks Speed Monster is closer to a 60% boost while Person B thinks of it as a 20% boost.

It is best to give it a definition of 50% as it is easier for everyone to understand the same meaning. A vague definition such as a "Moderate Boost in Speed" will also likely create confusion because different people will define "Moderate" differently. We already are creating some sort of "regulation" on Speed Monster, in that we all currently define it as doubling a Unit's Speed. All I'm really doing with Speed is suggesting that we change the current definition.

As for Hold Audience and Call-to-Arms, we cannot simply say that they're useful without defining how they are useful. If we don't, we'll likely run into the same problems described above.

And yes, I do agree that I think most people sell their Creatures short. I think it is because they desire to make most battles "hard fought" in order to make them interesting and exciting. I definitely noticed it in Northland when we fought all those Level 1 Rogues, I found myself also doing it admittedly... (Though Crystice is a Warlock so she might have difficulty fighting a Creature one-on-one if they're melee) I've been trying to avoid this, making battles more "fair" in that they vary in difficulty depending on situation and the strength and ability of all Units involved.

Actually if memory serves correct, I think I previously lost a slight bit of interest in the Awakening because I kept seeing this too much. But I can't really remember for certain.


I agree with MeinCookie on mana; self regulation. If a particular keeper wants to work on a basis by which spells can only be cast every X posts, or Y mana is regained per post and each spell costs Z mana, it doesn't really matter so long as it is relatively balanced.

You sound like MeinCookie and I were saying different things :P We both wanted it to be defined by the Keeper of a realm if they desired to use it. I merely wanted to post up a set of guidelines to help other Keepers create their own Mana System.


Tunnelers, sure. There needs to be some kind of counter, and tunnelers are as good as any. Alternatively, I think a hero with Sight could provide the same spotting mechanism as they're able to see things 'as they more truly are'. But Tunnelers are intimately familiar with rock, and could be said to have sight of it.

I'm not sure about Sight doing this. I think it is generally just supposed to allow a new vision that allows one to see the invisible, so if it is defined as that, then it wouldn't really allow one to detect Secret Doors. In fact, I don't think most Creatures would possess the knowledge to know the difference between a Secret Door's design and a standard Wall, so even with Sight, they still might not be able to see it.

However, I would be willing to allow such minor personal modifications to the Spell in order to create such a function. That is something that is not new to the RP, being done often with Archers to create "Elemental Arrows" and is done with Vermillion's Sight. But of course, such modifications would need to be approved by me first. This type of modification to Sight I would imagine fitting on scouts or manufacturers, but not, for example, Warlocks for somewhat obvious reasons.


Room efficiency I can agree on, but it is, again, something we don't need to put a number on. Perhaps we could implement suggestions that, say, Grot in RCI temporarily runs out of crafting resources and maybe lacks a certain tool, wheras creatures in Tesonu's dungeon have totally bitching resources and have more tools and work stations than they know what to do with.

I think we can leave most room efficiency stuff to player discretion.

Right now, what I'm primarily focusing on suggesting regarding Room Efficiency is that we agree to have some sort of Room Efficiency in order to overcome the current problem of all room sizes having the same effect. I was just giving out some ideas earlier on what the effects of Room Efficiency would be like. I think once at least most of us agrees on having Room Efficiency, I can start a new thread about it as I think it is one of the largest suggestions and may require a larger discussion.

I don't think we should use a strict value for most things regarding Room Efficiency, but I think that for certain rooms, we definitely should. The Torture Chamber comes to mind when I say this, and I think for very obvious reasons as to why. Can't torture 10 Prisoners if there's only room for 5 Torture devices.

* * * * *

I think you may be misinterpretating what I'm generally trying to suggest. This may admittedly be my own fault for using specific values, but I'm utilizing actual values to make sure everyone is on the same page in how large or small an effect is.

I don't want strict regulations for everything, though I think we should try and use these sorts of values when it comes to defining the effects of something. It makes it easier for everyone to understand how something works and for everyone to know that everyone else is thinking the same thing. But I don't expect everyone to follow through strictly either, and would instead allow bending of these definitions. However, we need a specific definition to begin with or else we won't know the limits of how far we can bend a certain rule in or against our favor.

Searingflame2
April 21st, 2012, 05:30
As for Hold Audience and Call-to-Arms, we cannot simply say that they're useful without defining how they are useful. If we don't, we'll likely run into the same problems described above.

I was too vague ^.^, I kind of discredited my suggestion as not really a suggestion due to how I prefaced it.

A creature in neutral or enemy territory nearby a call to arms could fight better, as reflected by Rp'ers having their creatures kick a bit more ass without it being a Pyrrhic victory. Or, on the flipside, having Rattus' creatures shredding a bit more (though based on the current direction of the fight...)
Hold Audience could be the same, but the 'flag' is always the heart and an instantaneous teleport without any kind of drop stun occurs. Cue more player creature ownage.

So that's the idea; they fight better near it or after having Hold Audience used. HOW MUCH better, however, is up to RP discretion. We don't need to say they're 20% better or any of that doohikie.

Metal Gear Rex
April 21st, 2012, 07:27
I was too vague ^.^, I kind of discredited my suggestion as not really a suggestion due to how I prefaced it.

A creature in neutral or enemy territory nearby a call to arms could fight better, as reflected by Rp'ers having their creatures kick a bit more ass without it being a Pyrrhic victory. Or, on the flipside, having Rattus' creatures shredding a bit more (though based on the current direction of the fight...)
Hold Audience could be the same, but the 'flag' is always the heart and an instantaneous teleport without any kind of drop stun occurs. Cue more player creature ownage.

So in other words, more like a boost in morality because the Creatures feel like they're being guided or watched or something by the Keeper, which then causes them to fight harder? Might be interesting. In that case, I suppose it really depends on both the Keeper and Creature on how much of a boost they gain.


So that's the idea; they fight better near it or after having Hold Audience used. HOW MUCH better, however, is up to RP discretion. We don't need to say they're 20% better or any of that doohikie.

Well as I said before, 20% is to give an idea on the size of the boost so that RPers know how far they can stretch things. 20% AKA a small boost. I would prefer a value compared to a term for a reason I explained before, in that people might have different personal standards and definitions for various terms. That would result in unintentionally creating widely differing effects from RPer to RPer.

However, being as we seem to be coming to some sort of agreement with a concept/definition of a moral boost, the effects will be defined by the Keeper and Creature. So we don't really need to worry about defining the size amount of a boost as it is going to intentionally vary widely from Creature to Creature.

Searingflame2
April 21st, 2012, 07:55
Fair enough on the percentages. I've been reading you too literally.

I like the idea of the creature/keeper exchange modifying the effects a lot. Perhaps such a thing could give additional purpose to the currently rather superficial creature statuses, alignment and keeper approval?

I imagine that Pope Oliran would gain a significant bonus from Kuroki, as they're both on the lawful-good side of the spectrum and would most probably get along swimmingly, whereas our good Pope in the hands of say, a perverted psycho, wouldn't feel quite so confident at his keeper's presence. But that's quite a big can to open, so feel free to leave it closed if you disagree. Just my ramblings.

Metal Gear Rex
April 21st, 2012, 08:02
I like the idea of the creature/keeper exchange modifying the effects a lot. Perhaps such a thing could give additional purpose to the currently rather superficial creature statuses, alignment and keeper approval?

I imagine that Pope Oliran would gain a significant bonus from Kuroki, as they're both on the lawful-good side of the spectrum and would most probably get along swimmingly, whereas our good Pope in the hands of say, a perverted psycho, wouldn't feel quite so confident at his keeper's presence. But that's quite a big can to open, so feel free to leave it closed if you disagree. Just my ramblings.

Perhaps. But I think we should just leave it to the judgement of each RPer. Whatever they take into account/factor in will be up to them as some things matter more to different creatures. And of course, they will know their own Creatures better than anyone else. At least, I hope they do.

KSS
April 21st, 2012, 12:08
I think when a maiden is going to die yeah like she gets her human part torn off and then she like grows into a normal spider so basicly your just put back alot.

Metal Gear Rex
April 30th, 2012, 06:52
Tunneller Secret Door and Fairy High Power Suggestions implemented. Call-to-Arms will now be defined as having a morale boost in size defined by the individual RPer, effected by the individual Creature and their Keeper, so long as they remain near the Call-to-Arms flag. Hold Audience will have a similar definition, with a marginally larger morale boost than Call-to-Arms.

I'd like more feedback on the other suggestions from different RPers before I come to any sort of conclusion on them.

Also, I have a new suggestion. What if the Guard transformed into the Royal Guard upon reaching Elite Status, similar to the Demon Spawn turning into a Dragon in that it is optional.

Searingflame2
April 30th, 2012, 07:27
Whilst still in the heroes service, I can see that working, as it represents a sort of 'promotion' and it is feasible that they could be given new armour. However, in a keeper's service, I think it would represent a raise in a hierarchy that does not exist, and it isn't a keeper's place to administer armour. Ergo, I'm both for and against it. The thing is, I don't really see heroes serving the heroes level up, as we kill them too quick.

Metal Gear Rex
September 10th, 2012, 22:33
What do people think of privileges given to active and reliable RPers? Said privileges would involve allowing the RPer to have 5-8 creatures in a single realm. The point of this is to allow the more active members help out in times like these where people are, due to real life reasons, unable to retain activity. This helps with situations like the one Northland is in currently, where there is a large battle coming up and sufficient creatures are needed in order for it to proceed. Without that, things will go badly and it may be better not to proceed. That then leads to inactivity in the realm.

I don't want to give it to everyone to prevent any one realm from receiving too much attention, and that obviously will defeat the purpose. I'll only give it to certain named members. Right now I would only choose MeinCookie and myself to be given such privileges.

I mentioned this in the chat before and have been thinking about it. I think it's a pretty good idea to help out in times of inactivity.

MeinCookie
September 11th, 2012, 06:45
I doubt I would take advantage of it. Maximum creature limit is 8, and for the moment transfering my veterans/combat creatures would involve a level drop which defeats the point in moving them (except to Faircoast which has a Scavanger Room allowing them to, for the moment, move without penalty). Furthermore I only have two creatures in NL, which means I'll have no problem moving a few creatures across/entering new creatures when the situation permits.

That isn't a quibble, that is just a fact.

My one concern is that, while yes some people are more active then others and none deny this, unless to you specify what consitutes rights to have said privileges it feels a bit too much like playing favorites. Especially as we are the only ones to have actually maxed out a realm with creatures :D. Some sort of criteria should be established perhaps? Or maybe extra creatures could be approved by Realm Leaders on a creature by creature basis?

Metal Gear Rex
September 11th, 2012, 07:03
I doubt I would take advantage of it. Maximum creature limit is 8, and for the moment transfering my veterans/combat creatures would involve a level drop which defeats the point in moving them (except to Faircoast which has a Scavanger Room allowing them to, for the moment, move without penalty). Furthermore I only have two creatures in NL, which means I'll have no problem moving a few creatures across/entering new creatures when the situation permits.

I thought of that and while you could move over two more to Northland, that would only leave us with 8 active creatures unless Orion gets his problems solved that he mentioned in the chat. It's possible for me to try and get Evi more involved but judging from the current circumstances, I don't think it will be likely unless we move very slowly. I'm not sure about Skarok because to be honest, he seems on and off at times, though he says he's made progress on posts he was going to make in Faircoast at least.


My one concern is that, while yes some people are more active then others and none deny this, unless to you specify what consitutes rights to have said privileges it feels a bit too much like playing favorites. Especially as we are the only ones to have actually maxed out a realm with creatures :D. Some sort of criteria should be established perhaps? Or maybe extra creatures could be approved by Realm Leaders on a creature by creature basis?

It's hard to say without stating the obvious, but I'm more so looking for people who stand out compared to the rest in terms of activity, which makes the definition more relative rather than absolute or fixed. Right now the people who come to mind are me, you, and Dramon. But Dramon only has one creature so I felt it to be pointless to mention him. If activity were to pick up and everyone became as active as us, then we would pretty much lose said privileges. (I don't think we should immediately force our extra creatures out of a realm, instead we would simply lose the ability to add a 5th or so creature to a single realm after we remove the additional creatures)

Metal Gear Rex
December 28th, 2012, 10:56
New Door Suggestion:
Sorta a door suggestion... This is something I thought of while revising the Traps and Doors post. (Doors are done, btw. Traps will be finished shortly) It's basically a stronger variation of the Barricade, and also helps establish the normal Barricade as being kinda weak. I'll post the stats of both for the sake of comparison.

Wooden Barricade
Health: Low
Manufacture Value: Low
Description:
Though technically not a door, the Barricade can slow down enemies considerably and act as cover for support while they last.

Iron Barricade
Health: Average
Manufacture Value: Above Average
Description:
The Iron Barricade is superior to the traditional Wooden Barricade, providing a longer lasting defense against enemy intruders. Its one weakness is that it takes a considerable drop in production rate.

MeinCookie
December 28th, 2012, 20:07
I like it. I greatly like it. The Hero/Stone Barricade should be implemented and should be akin to the Iron and not the Wooden one, imo. I might see If I can create some appropriate map icons for them later to differentiate.

Also... reading back... can Guards turn into Royal Guards? Was that approved?

Metal Gear Rex
December 28th, 2012, 21:04
I like it. I greatly like it. The Hero/Stone Barricade should be implemented and should be akin to the Iron and not the Wooden one, imo. I might see If I can create some appropriate map icons for them later to differentiate.

I forgot about the Hero Barricade. And I was just doing some editing to the Traps and Doors in my patch this morning. I suppose the Iron Barricade would, appearance wise, be the Hero Barricade pretty much. Now go and make a map icon for it.


Also... reading back... can Guards turn into Royal Guards? Was that approved?


Whilst still in the heroes service, I can see that working, as it represents a sort of 'promotion' and it is feasible that they could be given new armour. However, in a keeper's service, I think it would represent a raise in a hierarchy that does not exist, and it isn't a keeper's place to administer armour. Ergo, I'm both for and against it. The thing is, I don't really see heroes serving the heroes level up, as we kill them too quick.

This was pretty much the response. I'm not really for it anymore either. There's not much point to it. The only value in it is simply the name change. Better armor is something they're supposed to manufacture themselves. Higher skill level comes naturally. As far as ranking goes, that's decided by the Keeper.

MeinCookie
December 29th, 2012, 03:23
http://i.imgur.com/HzdLX.png

Thoughts?


EDIT ~ Another possible Icon if you want to emphasise the "Iron" more or split Hero and Iron into two.

http://i.imgur.com/rA69p.png

EDIT II ~ If you are looking for ways to create more variety, have you considered the possibility of Magic Barricades?

Metal Gear Rex
December 29th, 2012, 08:12
http://i.imgur.com/HzdLX.png

Thoughts?


EDIT ~ Another possible Icon if you want to emphasise the "Iron" more or split Hero and Iron into two.

http://i.imgur.com/rA69p.png

Let's go with the former. The latter has more details than necessary, which will only make it look bad when the icon is downsized to fit on a map's tile.


EDIT II ~ If you are looking for ways to create more variety, have you considered the possibility of Magic Barricades?

I think that may be taking things too far. Not to mention, it's physical units that tend to attack Barricades more often. If a Barricade were to reduce the damage taken like a Magic Door, well it would be pretty insanely powerful.

MeinCookie
December 29th, 2012, 08:34
I think that may be taking things too far. Not to mention, it's physical units that tend to attack Barricades more often. If a Barricade were to reduce the damage taken like a Magic Door, well it would be pretty insanely powerful.

That being said, it is physical units that tend to attack doors also. In somes ways that is the point - it necessitates a change in tactics to overcome with effective ease. Furthermore - how effective melee and magic attacks respectively are can be moderated to be less (or indeed more) extreme than with the Magic Door.

Metal Gear Rex
December 29th, 2012, 08:59
That being said, it is physical units that tend to attack doors also. In somes ways that is the point - it necessitates a change in tactics to overcome with effective ease. Furthermore - how effective melee and magic attacks respectively are can be moderated to be less (or indeed more) extreme than with the Magic Door.

It's very different compared to a door. With a door, it stops all fighting. No side can attack each other, granted they're being separated by the door. If they're not, then they probably shouldn't be attacking the door to begin with. Additionally, magical ranged units attack doors as well. Arguably even more so since you can only fit so many melee units on that one tile. Ranged units can fire at different areas of the door, even higher up where normal melee units don't reach.

A Barricade is a defense in the middle of the fight. It stops enemy movement for a time, and also provides cover for support. The downside is that it also stops Player movement, and enemy support can still fire over it. With a Magic Barricade, it will heavily reduce that physical damage, hindering an enemy's ability to progress. If placed strategically, it becomes incredibly powerful.

The only way to easily destroy it is to have the magical support attack it, and that is where the problem lies. If the support has to take up its time to attack the Barricades, then it allows free hits for the Player side. So in addition to greatly hindering physical units, better than any other Barricade, it can now indirectly nullify enemy support by provoking them to attack the Barricade so their Melee units can get by. Not to mention, it's fairly possible that the enemy has no magical capabilities, or at least, a lack of it. In such cases, the Magical Barricade will become superior. Situational, perhaps, but it is still very likely and has occurred several times before.

Sure, effectiveness can be tweaked. But to what end? If physical damage reduction is reduced to the point where physical units can reasonably handle it, then what point is there to using the Magic Barricade rather than the Iron Barricade? If Magical attacks destroy it so heavily that it doesn't hinder their ability to support by much, then why bother using the Magic Barricade at all if it has such a great weakness?

Perhaps there are some settings that could get the Magic Barricade to work, but they would be very strict. They would be so strict to the point that they will practically require actual number calculations to be done correctly, which is obviously not the way we do things. Not to mention, Iron Barricades are going to be providing a sufficient amount of defense already. Do we really need to create another tier beyond that?

MeinCookie
December 29th, 2012, 09:07
No. You are right. I agree with you.

Metal Gear Rex
December 29th, 2012, 09:10
That being said, I would still like to wait until I hear the thoughts of at least one more person before I'm convinced the Iron Barricade is a good idea.

NerdyTB
December 29th, 2012, 10:09
I think Iron barricades are an excellent idea. They would allow a Keeper to seal a passageway or part of a room off in a way that two ranged defenders could easily fend off one, possibly two, melee attackers trying to destroy the barricade. This also means that traps such as the Sentry and Lightning trap wouldn't need as many defenders protecting it, allowing creatures to attack the enemy instead of preventing anyone from destroying static damaging defenses.

MeinCookie
December 30th, 2012, 12:06
So, I did some more work... experimenting to see if I could create a more interesting design.

Graven:
http://i.imgur.com/HzdLX.png

Crypt:
http://i.imgur.com/pQzfy.png

Inlay:
http://i.imgur.com/O9Ezc.png

Castilian:
http://i.imgur.com/A3QVH.png

Segmented:
http://i.imgur.com/x2bVt.png

Metal Gear Rex
December 30th, 2012, 12:10
Crypt:
http://i.imgur.com/pQzfy.png

This one.

Metal Gear Rex
April 14th, 2013, 06:48
Huh, I realize I never officially added this idea in. Anyways, the Iron Barricade is accepted. I've already added it into the RPG Rules. Now I just need to get around to those Trap description updates... maybe tonight as well.

MeinCookie
April 14th, 2013, 14:24
I have a suggestion... the Faith Trap / Sanctified Trap.

It would basically be a holy/light trap equivalent to the Fear Trap... except that instead of being ineffective against undead creatures it is highly effective against them. whilst being ineffective against holy creatures such as Wizards, Monks, Fairies and any other creature with added holy attributes.

Metal Gear Rex
April 14th, 2013, 15:02
I have a suggestion... the Faith Trap / Sanctified Trap.

It would basically be a holy/light trap equivalent to the Fear Trap... except that instead of being ineffective against undead creatures it is highly effective against them. whilst being ineffective against holy creatures such as Wizards, Monks, Fairies and any other creature with added holy attributes.

So what happens when I combine a Fear Trap and a Faith Trap?

Also I have a lot of ideas taken from other DK projects I did. Like for example, making the Stone Knight into a normal unit, like I did with DKII. Make him be like a super tank, but with really crappy speed and magic. Sort of like the opposite of the Dark Angel.

Then there's that Hail Trap concept I came up with, being a ranged Trap with an AoE effect. Also, the Slow Trap, another ranged Trap that infects enemies with Slow.

And I've always wanted to recreate The Avatar as a normal unit, and actually had a concept for it in the JttAA/DK RPG project. Basically a downgraded Avatar, being the most perfectly rounded unit with magic and physical capabilities. It would have to work into the story though, with the Heroes attempting to recreate The Avatar with their own magic, but just ending up with a bunch of downgraded Avatars, but that's still better than nothing. Then there was a Dark Avatar concept, with the Keeper side stealing that idea.

These are all just ideas I'm throwing out, but does anyone think they are of interest?

MeinCookie
April 14th, 2013, 22:48
Faith Trap and Fear Trap = can't be placed near each other or they cancel each other out. Simple :). Also, it would be more likely to be used solely by the Heroes, so... that could be avoided pretty easily. I always though the Fear Trap wasn't very Heroic.

Stone Knights sounds interesting, but it would probably have to be super rare in appearing.

Hail Trap could be interesting as well. Not sure on slow.

Metal Gear Rex
April 14th, 2013, 23:00
Faith Trap and Fear Trap = can't be placed near each other or they cancel each other out. Simple :). Also, it would be more likely to be used solely by the Heroes, so... that could be avoided pretty easily. I always though the Fear Trap wasn't very Heroic.

Same effect really. It's just that some Creatures will bypass the first, but not the second. A third copy of the first could also be placed down as well. It's easily exploitable. I'm not too fond of the concept either. Part of the advantage of Undead is being immune to Fear Traps. Part of the disadvantage is being vulnerable to Holy Magic.

Metal Gear Rex
April 18th, 2013, 08:07
So Dark Omega has this new idea he wants approved.



http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu284/DarkFire4114/newthing_zps7713d58e.png



I think it sucks and he should burn.

Dark_Omega MK2
April 18th, 2013, 08:08
YES!! MAKE IT HAPPEN!!

Metal Gear Rex
April 18th, 2013, 08:09
No.

Dark_Omega MK2
April 18th, 2013, 08:09
Yes! And also include Candy Knights!

Skarok
April 18th, 2013, 12:42
He has my support. All of it!

Metal Gear Rex
April 18th, 2013, 14:46
I hate both of you.

Dark_Omega MK2
April 28th, 2013, 06:30
Hello guys. This time i have a serious suggestion.

This time i want to direct my attention to Dragons. As a dragon fan, i want me some dragons and i have not seen a single dragon in the RP that is not an NPC. At the moment, the strongest demon spawn "Suria" is currently level 7 and the requirement for evolving into a dragon is level E1. Let's be realistic, even if Rex decided to solely grind, it would take a very long time for him to reach level E1, let alone a normal user to reach certain requirement.

I have to ideas to solve this problem:
1.- Lowering the cap to a level between 6 and 8. This way demon spawns will evolve into dragons at a more reasonable rate, it'll still take a long time, but it is a more realistic rate (considering we have a demon spawn that is close to level 8).
I was proposing 3 diferent levels because:

Level 6 it's the max level of the training room
Level 8 is the max level for combat pit training
Level 7 it's in between, you would be forced to get some combat experienced to evolve.


2.- Having two stages of dragon evolution. At level 6, the demon spawn has the option to evolve into a "not so big" version of the dragon, a "teen" dragon should we say. This teen dragon obviously is not as strong or as tanky as the fully grown dragon and then at level E1 the teen dragon will evolve into a fully grown adult dragon.

I would appreciate commentaries on this matter because as a dragon fan i want to turn Grith into a dragon but with the current requirements it's pretty much impossible and not worth spending so much time into just into it.

Metal Gear Rex
April 29th, 2013, 15:48
Following my acceptance of the Spells, I will also be accepting the Dragon suggestion, following Idea 1, allowing Demon Spawns to hit Dragons at Level 8. Everybody better start hiding. Dragon Suria is coming.


* * * * * * *


Now, I have two new, and much larger suggestions. It's very possible that I will not be able to accept either of them without getting in some practice in the Test Realms, which is very likely to happen unless I hear some serious rejection followed by good reasoning as its support.

* * * *

Now the first involves the Scavenger Room and Level Penalties upon transferring. Talking with MeinCookie has brought to my attention the true pointlessness of both. It doesn't really expand anything or add anything but a restriction, and I think it's pretty clear by this point that I don't like such restrictions unless there's a good reason. But in this case, there isn't.

The biggest support it ever had was the fact that it supposedly prevented higher leveled units from transferring from realm to realm in order to take advantage of events going on in a particular realm. The problem is that it's so easily counterable by the Scavenger Room, making it fairly pointless. The Scavenger Room may be late due to expenses in Research and Gold, but that's when it's needed most. Additionally, a Creature who just leaves his master in service for others so quickly and just jumps around like that doesn't always leave a good impression. Therefore, taking advantage of events can have its own consequences, further ensuring that the Level Penalty is pointless.

So, I want to remove the Transfer Level Penalty entirely. But this also means that something has to be about the Scavenger Room, as it will then have literally no use. I have some ideas, but if these ideas don't work out, I'm prepared to can the Scavenger Room entirely, allowing a refund for Tesonu's research points. Kuroki can suck it.

So my idea is to make the Scavenger Room into a very advanced RP room. This will fit in with its expensiveness. It will be capable of doing any combination of the following:

Dungeon Management: Allows anyone with permission to view everything going on in the dungeon as if the Dungeon Keeper. They can also speak to Creatures personally or privately.
Sabotage: Allows a Creature to project their minds to another enemy in battle of the same species (and not class, so Warlock can scavenge Rogue), distracting or causing them to lose focus in the battle. Can only enter one mind at a time for short periods of time. Counterable by the Temple in the exact same way as in DK1. (Creature Praying protects himself and two others of the same species. When he leaves, he is protected for a time still but the others lose protection)
Scavenge Information: Can be used to listen in on outer realm news. Any sort of event occurring in the Conquest of Heavenarius (http://keeperklan.com/threads/2743-Conquest-of-Heavenarius!) thread can be heard. Can also be used to try and peak into the enemy's dungeon, but the view is limited to the enemy's Scavenger Room.
Scavenge Mana: Pretty Self-Explanatory. Essentially the Temple's Praying mechanic from DKII.
Alternative Entrance: A Creature doesn't always have to enter the Portal. This can be used as a special entrance if a Player desires.

Thoughts on these ideas for the Scavenger Room?

* * * *

Now, for that other suggestion. I do believe I mentioned having some ideas for new Creatures and such. In fact, I even had a suggestion for a new Creature the other day, the Gargoyle. This did end up provoking a lot of thinking on the matter. I ended up deciding/realizing that such new Creatures would have to be truly unique and special in their basic form in order for me to even consider them because they can otherwise simply be created by performing special alterations to an existing Creature. As such, I decided to reject the Gargoyle idea in addition to all of my previously/recently mentioned ideas in this thread. The reason for the Gargoyle's rejection specifically had to be due to its purpose as a flier tank being achievable by the Firefly and the Gargoyle form itself could be done by altering the Dark Angel enough. Elite Dark Angels do look more bird-like. Hell, I could make a Harpy out of a DA if I wanted to. The Turn to Stone ability is easily done through a modified Protect or Invulnerability.

So what brings me to suggesting a new Creature then, if the requirements are so strict? Well, there is one Creature that I once created that stuck in my mind. I didn't have to search for it, I just remembered it. But just to see if there were any more ideas, I did a search for all of the WftO suggestions I ever made, and those I had planned to make, on this forum. I burned through them all pretty fast, deciding that they were all easily achievable with existing units and alterations. All except for one, the same one I remembered. The Naga (http://keeperklan.com/threads/2282-Nagini). Or, as I called it in the thread itself, Nagini, after reading that somewhere to be a term specific for female Nagas.

Why I think this Creature has a chance is simply due to its form. It's not really like anything that exists currently in the Awakening. The closest, I guess, would be a Tentacle, but even that pushes it. The half-human half-snake aspect also further complicates things. I just can't see myself accepting a Naga created by altering existing Creatures simply because it just feels like too much of a stretch.

So, I would like to try and add in a Naga Creature. It's fairly simple to create its basic form without having a DK1 or DK2 model to base it off of as well. I think it would be fairly interesting. But this, again, could end up being something that requires some testing in the Test Realm. But maybe not. I'm not quite sure yet.

* * * *

What do others think of the Scavenger Room modifcations and Naga as a new Creature?

NerdyTB
April 29th, 2013, 20:23
What, accept the Dragon level adjustment before I post? Nah, it's fine.

Anyways, onto the suggestions at hand. The adjustments to the Scavenger Room seem reasonable enough considering how expensive it is. It'll definitely open up RP a whole lot, as well as relieving pressure and responsibilities from Tesonu. The information gathered from it will be invaluable. Alongside its current abilities, I think that the Scavenger Room should also allow heroes that are the same type of any heroes currently scavenging to enter the dungeon without having to be knocked out and converted. This will increase the freedom of RPers of what creatures they want to bring in, but extra work is still needed for those who want to be first of a specific hero. Making it usable as somewhat of a Dungeon ancestry.com phone book would also be interesting, allowing creatures to connect with relatives not in the dungeon.

Now, I was the one who brought up the Gargoyle suggestion with Rex, and as he's already explained, one can be created with existing creatures. The Naga is very interesting, as far as it being a possible creature. Its ability to pass normally through water increases the possibility of waterborne surgical strikes, as it would compliment the Tentacle well. The weakness to light as mentioned in the linked thread also makes sure it's a balanced creature. I see no problems with adding the Naga to the creatures. Also, for ideas of how a Naga would look from a Keeper's perspective, here are some models from Warcraft 3 that can be used as an example.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070826213307/wowwiki/images/2/2c/Nagas.jpg

Metal Gear Rex
April 29th, 2013, 21:21
Alongside its current abilities, I think that the Scavenger Room should also allow heroes that are the same type of any heroes currently scavenging to enter the dungeon without having to be knocked out and converted. This will increase the freedom of RPers of what creatures they want to bring in, but extra work is still needed for those who want to be first of a specific hero.

When I was considering various ideas for the Scavenger Room, this idea occurred to me. Or something similar to it. Or maybe numerous ideas similar to it. I don't remember exactly, but I rejected them for one reason or another. I'd also reject this idea in its raw, presented format because as it is, it clashes with the Torture Chamber. Essentially puts the room out of business. This was the reason why I rejected the idea originally while it was in my head.

But then I had another idea to get them both to work. Basically, the Scavenger Room acts like a Hero Portal, in that Heroes can come through it, but only if the proper rooms are obtained. Meanwhile, the Torture Chamber works exactly as it did in the games in that it allows converts to occur regardless of whether or not the Player can attract them normally.

Therefore, the Torture Chamber has the advantage of bringing in anyone, so long as the RPer can wait for said battle to occur, while the Scavenger Room needs additional rooms to work. This way, it can't be abused, like the way Animus tried to use it. It doesn't encourage early building because it can't instantly gain Heroes of any kind, as that will be the Torture Chamber's usefulness. Of course, the Scavenger Room is still more useful late-game, that's because it's a late game room.


Making it usable as somewhat of a Dungeon ancestry.com phone book would also be interesting, allowing creatures to connect with relatives not in the dungeon.

I think that essentially falls under the "Scavenge Information" idea I had.


Also, for ideas of how a Naga would look from a Keeper's perspective, here are some models from Warcraft 3 that can be used as an example.

My goal is to keep its base design very simplistic. Creating the basic form that is required, but allowing for much flexibility to be had as to remove any sort of additional and/or unnecessary expectations for what it looks like. It's essentially just a half-human half-snake creature with claws. Pretty simple to imagine.

Metal Gear Rex
April 30th, 2013, 21:26
Also, as a note, being as I already decided to scrap the Level Penalties, I will be giving a refund of EXP for anyone who has suffered an EXP loss as a result of Level Penalties. PM me all required information as to where and when it occurred in addition to the amount of EXP lost.

I've already updated Crystice to reflect this as well and can use her as an Example. She moved from Northland (http://keeperklan.com/threads/517-Northland-Iceland/page55?p=37327#post37327) to Frozengard (http://keeperklan.com/threads/53-Frozengard-Wastelands/page40?p=37346#post37346) and went from Level 4.9 to 3.0, losing 35 EXP from 3 to 4 and 40.5 from being 90% of the way to 4 to 5, for a total of 75.5. This has bumped her up to Level 7 with 7.5/110 EXP. Suria has competition.

Metal Gear Rex
September 24th, 2013, 08:25
Here's an idea I've had for... actually a good long while. I think this started since before I became GM. Anywho.

My idea is basically the creation of a room that stores technology to upgrade other rooms. The amount of upgrades the room can store is based on its size. Upgrades are still researched in the Library. We can create a totally new room or we can use the Barracks as a means to impliment the room using existing DK designs. One of the purposes of this room is an expanded use of the Library and need for researchers to compete with manufacturers. Another is to add to the possibility of specializing for certain realms as its highly unlikely to research everything unless you have a large realm in addition to researchers. For the sake of the discussion, I will be referring to this room as the Barracks regardless.

The Barracks can store one upgraded researched item per "middle" tile. (Basically a tile that isn't on the very edge of the room in case that isn't absolutely clear) In order for a room to be upgraded, the downgraded version of the room must be researched and built. Research cannot be done if the Barracks is full. As the Lair and Hatchery upgrades are either minor or purely aesthetic, they are granted automatically as freebies once a Barracks has been built and they do not use up any space.

Lair: Allow Bunk Beds

Hatchery: Generates Turkey and Pig in addition to Chickens

Treasury: Increases Storage by 50%

Training Room: Increases Training EXP by 10-25%

Library: Increases Storage by 50% and Allows Research of Upgradable Spells, which is Stored in the Library as separate items from Normal Spells

Workshop: Increases Storage by 50%

Guard Room: Automatically reinforces walls of adjacent claimed tiles

Bridge: Reduces Cost by 50%

Casino: Glorifies the Casino with many more games and expansions AND/OR allows the Casino to convert into a darker themed Tavern with bar fights and strippers

Barracks: Drops Room Upgrade Research Cost by 10%

Prison: Skeletons can be created from Non-Humanoids

Torture Chamber: Allows Converts to start at Levels 2-3 instead of 1 if they are equal to or beyond those levels.

Graveyard: Reduces Bodies Required for Vampire from 5 to 3 AND/OR reduces EXP loss from Resurrection by 10-20%

Combat Pit: Max Level 8 -> 9-10

Temple: Restores Health to Praying Units as if In Lair, Grants Auto-Purify to Praying Units for a Moderate Duration of Time, and Reduces Sacrifice Level Requirement from 5 to 3.Create Imp: Reduces Imp Cost by 5 Imps

Possession: Allows Enhanced Possession to go beyond the normal limits but at double the Mana Cost and Drain

Call-to-Arms: Removes Mana Drain

Hold Audience: Allows the Keeper to Have Control over Who gets Teleported to the Dungeon Heart

Must-Obey: Doubles both the Effect and the Mana Drain

Sight-of-Evil: Reduces Mana Cost by 50%

Speed Monster: Allows Haste to be Cast

Heal: Allows Purify to be Cast

Protect: Allows Invulnerable to be Cast

Conceal: Allows Mass Conceal to be Cast, Making Everyone Invisible at Half the Price it would Normally Take to Manually Cast

Cave-In: Increases radius from 1x1 to 2x2 tiles for double the cost

Lightning: Doubles Stun Time and Triples Mana Cost

Thunder: Doubles radius for 50% More Mana

Create Gold: Creates 1000-1250 Gold for 50% more Mana

Chicken: Can be Cost on Territory beyond your own for a short duration

Disease: Converts the Mana Cost to Low - Medium in exchange for a Mana Drain based on the number of targets effected by the Disease

Destroy Wall: Reduces Cost by 25%

Inferno: Increases damage by 50% for double the cost

I don't have research values up yet, obviously, but there are a few things I would like to point out. As a general statement, some of these are simply and obviously designed to prove accessibility to certain things, like the Skeleton with the Prison upgrade for example.


Training Room: Increases Training EXP by 10-25%

...

Combat Pit: Max Level 8 -> 9-10

These is geared more towards new Creatures who appear later in the RP when everyone is higher leveled. We are reaching that point, actually. It does make it easier for new Creatures to catch up with everyone else. As for the Combat Pit, I always had the idea that with the Training Room max level increase, the Combat Pit should also receive its own increase. As it is designed to get a Creature to higher levels in a safer and more controlled environment, I figured a max level increase would fit its purpose.

My only concern is that everyone tends to use their own EXP systems so this could potentially be a problem. Though I think the only real problem would come with systems like Cookie's old one where the EXP required to reach every next level was the exact same as the very first level. Such systems are easily abusable in general and I prefer to keep them out regardless so my concerns may be a non-issue.


Torture Chamber: Allows Converts to start at Levels 2-3 instead of 1 if they are equal to or beyond those levels.

This is also geared towards new Creatures as it allows them to start at a higher level. I couldn't actually think of any other use for it that wouldn't be aesthetic like the Hatchery. There are a number of things to note, however.

Levels 2-3 are still pretty low so it doesn't make that big of a difference, but it is still a considerable difference. We are at that point though when those levels don't matter as much.

Gaining advantage of the upgrade is situational. You have to wait for the Creature you want, which may be at a time where its simply faster to bring in a new Creature normally and have it train. Additionally, as a convert, it has certain backgrounds attached to it, which does make it even more situational. As for Heroes though, it is a more universal buff but Heroes have their own restrictions.

It's difficult to abuse this early in a realm as you have to first research and build a Barracks then research and build both a non-upgraded and upgraded Torture Chamber. As the Torture Chamber is a more pricey room, it has the drawback of restricting the Keeper early on by taking focus from other earlier rooms, such as the Workshop. If a Keeper had the means to easily research and build it, then he probably didn't have a strong need for its bonuses to begin with as he likely already had a well trained army. It's an extra perk as are most room upgrades. It is not necessary or meant to be a massive advantage point.

Personally I prefer the Level 3 starting point as opposed to the Level 2 starting point since it makes more of an impact. This is a more late game room after all.


Graveyard: Reduces Bodies Required for Vampire from 5 to 3 AND/OR reduces EXP loss from Resurrection by 10%

I don't think the reduction of EXP loss from Resurrection is all that bad, honestly. Like the Torture Chamber perk, it can't be abused for its own reasons. It makes a small difference, being a perk, so its useful. But its not so useful or significant that you can spam resurrection else you'll just lose a bunch of levels. Pretty self explanatory beyond that, really.

I think the only real question is whether or not the Body reduction is going to be included.


Thunder: Doubles radius for 50% More Mana

Yes, I will be adding Keeper Thunder (aka DK1 Lightning).


Casino: Glorifies the Casino with many more games and expansions AND/OR allows the Casino to convert into a darker themed Tavern with bar fights and strippers

We need more strippers.

Searingflame2
September 24th, 2013, 08:32
Non-humanoid skeletons...

Do they adopt a humanoid skeleton via magic, or are they as they were in life? Insects lack a vertebrate skeleton, can they be raised too?

Metal Gear Rex
September 24th, 2013, 08:37
Do they adopt a humanoid skeleton via magic, or are they as they were in life? Insects lack a vertebrate skeleton, can they be raised too?

Yes.



.........



Or to be more specific, the former. And yes Skeletons can come from Insects too. DKII logic!