PDA

View Full Version : A Fresh start!



QwentyJ
April 6th, 2010, 18:04
Good morning/day/evening Evil Ladies & harsh men, wherever you may be.

I should probably introduce myself. I'm Qwenty - I've been around since the early-ish days of KK on the original forum. Alas, I have not had the recent opportunities as I would have liked to be able to have posted on this forum due to work commitments. However, times have changed and I find myself with a bit more time to do things.

What I would like to announce is as follows: work on WTFO on the KK forum will continue. I have looked around and there are people who would like to carry on with their work on this version and for whatever reason would not like to with the OpenDungeon board.

Without wishing into the personal reasons again, I have been working on a storyline and a campaign for a long time. Ballwinkle is carrying on with some coding work; achieving excellent work on the mining aspect of DK. A New Room and Sire have also expressed interest in formatting web design, organisation, getting on EA's case, story design amongst other things (tell me if I got that right, boys! ;) ).

If you would like to continue on this path, then please do feel free to add your names to the list.

We are all aware that progress will be slow, as these things always are. However, it's important (I feel) that the desire burns bright, despite the lengthy haul we may well find ourselves in. The one difference I want to make absolutely known is we will be making key decisions along the way. For what we may lack in some areas (programming, art work, sound, etc.), we will make up for in others. We need and intend to maintain a codex, which will be updated with what we have decided via pollling. With these updates becoming coda. We are all aware what idleness and lengthy absences can do to a community, which is why it is important that we all team up, put the visors down and keep this dream alive.

On this basis, Dotted has appointed me in an emergency office of Moderator so as to get things back on track again in this MB. This is just for the meanwhile and I intend to submit myself to you for a vote once again when things are a little more stable. We will all have appointments and I am in the process of continuing to write the story for the game. We will all (whatever we are working on within the project) keep people updated as to what we're doing.

That I suppose, is it for the meanwhile. Any of you who would like to help, or to discuss what's happened, where this is going, or to voice your concerns, please use this thread to do so and myself and my team thusfar will attempt to answer your queries.

The 2nd edition WTFO team thusfar is as follows:

QwentyJ - Emergency PJ & Story/Campaign
Ballwinkle - Coding and Development
Sire - Characters, Gameplay, Organisation and web design
A New Room - Voicework, Legal, fixer, Hassler of EA.

If you would like to speak to us in private, pm us and we will pass on to you our details.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. We hope to hear your thoughts.

Qwenty.

Patrician
April 6th, 2010, 23:27
I admire your persistance, QwentyJ! As dotted has probably told you, KK is 100% behind you. I'll certainly try and offer as much advice and assistance as I can.

Keep the faith! :horny:

Blue Eagle
April 7th, 2010, 02:04
It is the community spirit that will, along with patience and determination, keep this project going through to completion. I have been around for a while on and off and continuously posting ideas and discussion, and shall continue to do so.
At the moment the most important things are to keep the community updated as was said, to work as such that the project remains public by showing demos, artwork and sound effects and to maintain the enthusiasm that will keep this project going.

I would encourage anybody dropping by, whether or not you've been here before, if you have any ideas, comments, discussion posts or anything that might help do feel free to post, we might be evil but we're not dangerous, really ^_^ .

Talking of hassling EA, has there been anything from them at all?

Blutonium
April 7th, 2010, 08:56
when my models are done you can use them freely. all you guys need to do is get an engine running

QwentyJ
April 7th, 2010, 15:36
I admire your persistance, QwentyJ! As dotted has probably told you, KK is 100% behind you. I'll certainly try and offer as much advice and assistance as I can.

Keep the faith! :horny:


It is the community spirit that will, along with patience and determination, keep this project going through to completion. I have been around for a while on and off and continuously posting ideas and discussion, and shall continue to do so.
At the moment the most important things are to keep the community updated as was said, to work as such that the project remains public by showing demos, artwork and sound effects and to maintain the enthusiasm that will keep this project going.

I would encourage anybody dropping by, whether or not you've been here before, if you have any ideas, comments, discussion posts or anything that might help do feel free to post, we might be evil but we're not dangerous, really ^_^ .

Talking of hassling EA, has there been anything from them at all?


when my models are done you can use them freely. all you guys need to do is get an engine running

Thanks guys. All the help is certainly appreciated and I'm sure that within the week, we can sort out the new team. And I'll update that as soon as possible. That's also fantastic news Bluts; hope the work is going well.

I think the last news I saw about e-mail was on that thread we had below about finding a developer and the subject gradually morphed onto that. TBH, it will take a lengthy time to get anything from them at all and the only thing we can do is to continously bombard them with word-age until they finally relent (This is the DK way of doing things).

I don't see any particular reason why we should abandon our campaign, but I think we all need to realise this will take a long time! My sincere thanks to you all if you wish to accompany us on this journey.

kyle
April 7th, 2010, 16:04
I agree fully with everything above. Anyways i have been speaking with some agent and he pointed me towards a email address. It has some writing above it that might be a bit of a problem.



We recognize and appreciate the effort that goes into game and product ideas and submissions. We have thousands of employees worldwide who are constantly generating and developing games and new game features. Some of these ideas see the light of day, but many do not. Because of our creative scope, we seldom look at product ideas or game concepts from people outside of Electronic Arts.

We will review third-party products, but only after they have been built to a fully-playable prototype (a working game). If you have such a prototype or if you have further questions, please contact [email protected] for more information about our submission process.

QwentyJ
April 7th, 2010, 16:12
Welcome to Kyle, who will be harrassing EA for the time being, due to ANR's work commitments for the enxt 5-6 weeks.

Monsterbaby
April 7th, 2010, 19:54
I agree fully with everything above. Anyways i have been speaking with some agent and he pointed me towards a email address. It has some writing above it that might be a bit of a problem.



In my oppinion it doesn't sound that bad, especially the review thing. It doesn't look like they care that much about people doing new concepts of their games, afterall why would they care, when they don't know how to make original stuff anymore, and just crap??

Afterall, why would anyone want a game reviewed by EA, I'm sure if they'll like it,, they will just steal it and make money of it, and the people who made it, won't end up with a penny.

But thats my view.

But the resond still sounded nice. Better than expected anyway.

kyle
April 7th, 2010, 20:03
Its not a response, its a message above there email address.

MaxHayman
April 7th, 2010, 20:06
In my oppinion it doesn't sound that bad, especially the review thing. It doesn't look like they care that much about people doing new concepts of their games, afterall why would they care, when they don't know how to make original stuff anymore, and just crap??

Afterall, why would anyone want a game reviewed by EA, I'm sure if they'll like it,, they will just steal it and make money of it, and the people who made it, won't end up with a penny.

But thats my view.

But the resond still sounded nice. Better than expected anyway.

Well, the reason they might say that could be that people email them and never finish their games, so its a waste of their time.

Monsterbaby
April 7th, 2010, 22:17
Ah okay. I thought you had recieved the message.

Of course stuff should be completely done, to have some meat on the bone, otherwise they would probably be spammed with 10000000 suggestions every day, or hate mail or whatever.

Also, the reason stuff probably should be done, is because EA, don't know themselves how to make a "done" game. It is all pretty much boring remakes they do.

But anyway I feel like this is going a bit thowards offtopic for this thread, and I know I've been taking it to the level as well. :dwarf:

kyle
April 7th, 2010, 22:23
LolWut?

Anyways, i will send them an email if we get a good prototype going first. Otherwise im just wasting time.

A New Room
April 7th, 2010, 22:52
I will send them an email if we get a good prototype going first. Otherwise im just wasting time.I like this plan! http://forum.keeperklan.com/images/keeperklan/icons/icon14.gif
Sending them an email now would be like agreeing to give a presentation on chickens, armed with only a hard boiled egg.


Rage Against the EA I do believe there are already 2 (http://forum.keeperklan.com/analogy-for-ea-games-t889.html) threads (http://forum.keeperklan.com/sims-shithole-this-forum-t859.html) for that :/

QwentyJ
April 8th, 2010, 01:37
Thing is, EA are notoriously unreliable for giving any sort of customer rapport. I just think it's a wise idea to sound them out, given the fact that they could take ages to reply to us, hence the longer we get onto them, the quicker we get an answer. That and we will keep going up the chanin of people to answer to.

kyle
April 8th, 2010, 02:26
As much as I like annoying EA, doing so at the moment will most likley not bring any results. They specifically state that they will test them after there is a playable prototype. A better plan would be to just get something simple up and running to let EA know that we are serious about this.

A New Room
April 8th, 2010, 02:30
Thing is they don't, and probably won't, have to answer to us at all...

MaxHayman
April 8th, 2010, 02:31
As much as I like annoying EA, doing so at the moment will most likley not bring any results. They specifically state that they will test them after there is a playable prototype. A better plan would be to just get something simple up and running to let EA know that we are serious about this.

The lets do that, and quit going on about EA. They dont seem to care at all, so lets leave them alone :p

kyle
April 8th, 2010, 03:02
There is only one problem I see about not having EA's permission. I can't imagine ballwinkle having to do all the programming himself, I put up a help wanted ad on gamedev.net and that was attracting some attention until a moderator told me he was locking the thread until we have written permission from EA. So where do we find additional help.

Evi
April 8th, 2010, 03:17
You know, sometimes I wished I had a real computer skill so I can help with making WFTO.

Well, until my next School year, where I get to take a graphics class, all I am good for currently is for making Suggestions.

A New Room
April 8th, 2010, 11:02
There is only one problem I see about not having EA's permission. I can't imagine ballwinkle having to do all the programming himself, I put up a help wanted ad on gamedev.net and that was attracting some attention until a moderator told me he was locking the thread until we have written permission from EA. So where do we find additional help.

That should be a hurdle that is dealt with once we have finalised as much of the general concept of the game.

Previously the mentality was that we'll decide on everything when we have a working engine, only probelm is there is nothing gets decided.

So far we know we are making a DK type game, but what elements are going to be taken from previous games? Finalising in a realistic fashion on each point will hopefully give us a better layman's perspective on what a WfO engine actually needs to do.

Or at least that is how I see it... :/

MaxHayman
April 8th, 2010, 11:26
At the moment, i think we should aim to make a game that is as much playable as it can be.

QwentyJ
April 8th, 2010, 16:47
There is only one problem I see about not having EA's permission. I can't imagine ballwinkle having to do all the programming himself, I put up a help wanted ad on gamedev.net and that was attracting some attention until a moderator told me he was locking the thread until we have written permission from EA. So where do we find additional help.

If Ballwinkle is going to do the majority of the programming for the moment, then it's only right that he do it in incremental steps, thus not burdening his workload and/or keeping the work fresh. I don't have a problem with that, brcause we know the time scale at the moment is going to fairly long-term.

Was it one moderator or more than one? Surely he must have known that
trying to get anything from EA is like trying to draw blood from a stone?! I guess we can just keep pushing the boundaries over there, draw interest with another thread until it gets ear-marked by a moderator there and then note the applicants and ask them to join over here? Just a (albeit slightly cheeky) suggestion?

As for additional help. well that depends on us really; we've got to find them ourselves. I've got my cousin who's good with stuff like this, alas, his ensuing barrage of moving house and soon to be getting engaged nature won't help proceedings. Therefore I would ask if anyone would like to volunteer on a recruitment based role?


That should be a hurdle that is dealt with once we have finalised as much of the general concept of the game.

Previously the mentality was that we'll decide on everything when we have a working engine, only probelm is there is nothing gets decided.

So far we know we are making a DK type game, but what elements are going to be taken from previous games? Finalising in a realistic fashion on each point will hopefully give us a better layman's perspective on what a WfO engine actually needs to do.

Or at least that is how I see it... :/

Exactly, if we all give what we can offer, then I can see the project stepping up. Relying on the one thing that we will be slowly offering is not good enough. What we need to get to is a basic core.

Story-Line
Gameplay & Design
Art
Models
Sounds & Music
Coding & Development

At the moment, that's what I consider a basic core. We have the perrmission of Bluto for basic 3D Models, we have the storyline being developd, Ball-W is ploughing through some dev work, ANR will be ready to start on Voicework in a month and a half's time, so that just leaves Art and Gameplay issues. We've got a new artist joining shortly and we'll wait and see on Synth, though natch, if he would like to be in, that would be a massive boost. Sire will be brainstorming the gameplay issues and general design of the game.

All of these we will discuss at length next week. There's still a few holes we need plugged and I guess the more people who would like to help with Lore and with Game mechanics would be useful.

Hapuga
April 8th, 2010, 17:29
To avoid another failure I suggest you create a schedule. Each person will write his plans and goals for a week, and what was completed last week. This will help you track each others progress. It is also very helpful for dividing responsibilities and avoiding uncertainties.

Second thing that you should do: create an absence board. If someone is going to be absent for a certain period of time, he/she goes there and posts a message with description and absence period.

Third, you should all get each others contacts, like MSN, Skype, ICQ or whatever you may use. online problem discussion will get you much further than just a regular forum conversation.

Fourth, you should be realistic about your future goal. A goal itself is ambiguous and frightening. Such goals as "lets make a game" are not leading anywhere. Be able to divide a huge goals into lesser goals. Small goals are much easier to achieve and are not that scary to undertake.

Fifth, you should be able to manage your time effectively. When the goal is set, create a timeline and try to guess how much time each task will take, like "this month we have to do THIS much". Track your progress and try to improve. Objectives should be relatively similar each time period, else you won't be able to compare your progress to past performance effectively.

Sixth, know your numbers. You should know who is on the project, whos doing what, and in what numbers. If programmers are missing, search for substitute and continue working on your part. A flexible team is an effective team, and your flexibility depends on ability to face and adopt under different circumstances.

"Duh, thats so obvious!" you may say. Well, about 80% of teams and groups fail to follow these simple guidelines and fail eventually.

Best of luck.

Metal Gear Rex
April 8th, 2010, 17:34
It really bothers me:

I'd like to see WftO released alot, (As well as Open Dungeons, as they're both Dungeon Keeper to me) but when we were all together, how come nobody supported us like this?

It felt hopeless really, suddenly it seems like a possibility. But everyone is now doing the work, it irritates me that they weren't there before to help us out.

Hapuga, I've never seen such an organized list. Its so large, how could we miss it if we were ignoring you?

QwentyJ
April 8th, 2010, 18:11
Guys, guys, guys. Let's be civil about this. This thread is not for argueing, ok? No flamewars please?

kyle
April 8th, 2010, 18:37
I dont think thats an argument, Hapuga is right. WTFO in the first place was a huge sloppy mess that nobody knew what was going on, we had two freaking programmers working on two different engines. I speak with Kopavel very frequently and he always told me that he would need help and the other programmers were either confused on what they had to do or just not doing anything. I offered to make some form of timetable but I think I realised that WTFO at that point was hopeless to fix. This brand new start is what we need to reach our goal. Lets not fuck it up.

Sire
April 9th, 2010, 05:55
As I have said in other places, I'm currently on vacation.

Since my job is stuff that I'm already doing (Test Realm, Suggestion Idea List), then I think I'm set besides a few extra bits of contribution and a possible website.

Edit:
I also 95% agree with Hapuga as well. Those simple guidelines will get a team pretty far if everyone has their orders and follows them.

Babax
April 9th, 2010, 06:29
Guys, guys, guys. Let's be civil about this. This thread is not for argueing, ok? No flamewars please?

Was here for some time. I`m not a programmer, nither artist, so my participation in project can take place in testing and advertising. I also participate in several open source projects, so if there`ll be some technical problems with engine realisation I can try to attract quite skillfull programmers from the projects I`ve been participationg for help.

Also I`ll do some posting on dev-forums, so the number of coders/modellers/animators in your team grow bigger :P

And what about "where to start", IMHO try to re-create DK1-styled gameplay for start, since you`ll have the example (DK1) to compare your project to. Once it done - you can move any way you`d like for futher success :P

Best of luck!

Monsterbaby
April 9th, 2010, 09:59
I agree with Hapuga too, just not with the deadline idea. Since this is a spare time project, people cannot keep deadlines. I think assignements should be handed out in such a way, that people can pick what they wish to do, of one big assignment list. Ex: The people doing models and art on the game, share one list, and they can pick stuff from the list, they feel like having time to do, and skill to do. Of course it should not be in such a way, that as soon as things are published, someone puts his / her name on everything, and it doesn't get done. So people should probably hook themselves up with 2-4 things at a time, depending on its size, at a time, and of course try to get it done in a proper time. But asking to have a specific deadline, I doubt this can be done with this project, when it is based on our spare time. Maybe on few things, indicators is needed, "like it you could have this done in 2 weeks, that would be great!" - But no deadlines!

Hapuga
April 9th, 2010, 10:17
Deadlines are a required element to keep the project in order. This is essential because deadlines are keeping the whole thing in place.

Having deadlines does not mean having strict deadlines. You may have flexible deadlines, but you have to have those or your project will turn into a pile of disorganized trash.

Somehow people think that deadlines are necessarily something that is out there, shining like a red light, something inevitable and driving everyone crazy. Totally wrong, biased thinking. Deadlines are intervals that help you divide your work in logical, coherent parts.

An example of a flexible deadline would be "creating a concept of a new model and making approximately X amount of work on a model this month."

If the deadline is not met, you may want to increase your input.

A strict deadline is "create a concept for a model by tuesday 21:00, make a first draft of a model by wednesday 16:00 and make a final draft by sunday 24:00." Thats a kind of deadlines you have at universities and work.


If the deadline is not met, you are in trouble.

Monsterbaby
April 9th, 2010, 10:22
Then we are talking about very flexible deadlines here :demon:

Anyway, I really hope we can gather whatever we have in one box so far, to get a clear view on what has been decided and made. If any.

kyle
April 9th, 2010, 12:11
Hmm, we could use a design document. I think we could anyway...

Sire
April 9th, 2010, 12:23
While I'm still out here and using my hotel internet time, I made a post for the developers and see if we can get a new layout for WFTO and archive all the old stuff, salvaging a few things if they are popular or important. Also included is a proposed plan of action. Hopefully the developers can discuss this while I'm off doing something else.


Proposed Plan of Action:
1: Get new forum layout for WFTO.
2: Decide on how we will do War for the Overworld (Storyline reasons, do we continue off of DK I, DK II, both, or do we make our own universe? Decide via poll.)
3: Archive all old infomation and, using common sense and polls, keep the important and popular ideas.
4: Create an official or semi-official list of what will make it automatically for War for the Overworld (Imps, Bile Demons, Dark Mistresses, Knights, Lord/ Lady of the Land, etc). Of course, this will be subject to change as we go further in the development process.
5: Add set values for the official / semi-official ideas so the new suggestions have a standard to go by.
6: Assign everyone goals to meet weekly, every 2 weeks, and/or monthly.


New Forum Layout:

War for the Overworld (Catagory)
Discussion
--The Assembly (Public polls are created here.)
Suggestions (We will vote for the prefix system or the separate forums.
Development (Private) -- (Same as the currently have, a private forums for the developers)
--Applicants (Where the new people come in I guess.)
Archives (Holds all old threads here.)
--Old Discussion
--Old Suggestions

Important Threads

[Discussion]
Semi-Official Stuff (Holds the ideas that have a really good chance in making it to WFTO. Each post here will have the values for each suggestion or idea.)
Hyrdoblast's Concept Art (Holds all of Hydroblast's Concept Art here.)
Research and Reference v2 (New thread since we are starting from ground up, a few old pictures may be imported from the old one.)

[Suggestions]
Suggestion Idea List v2 (New list, maintained by me. More or less has the same function as the old one.)
Suggestion Box (Non-members can send ideas using this method.)
Official Standards [READ FIRST] (Sets the common standards for suggestions, a normalized layout and what each value is approximate to. This can also be where the find the official number values for the semi-official ideas.)

There shall be threads explaining the function of The Assembly and the Archives as well.

I hope this is a step in the right direction.
And with this post, I head off once more. I'll see if I can check in on this 15 hours from now...

kyle
April 9th, 2010, 12:31
Nice list, I espicially agree with the reforming the forum, i always thought it needed that done. To bad im not a developer, so i can not see the developer room :(

Kopavel
April 9th, 2010, 13:35
Am I excluded from developers?

QwentyJ
April 9th, 2010, 13:37
Am I excluded from developers?
That's entirely up to you? Do you want a job within the new team?

Monsterbaby
April 9th, 2010, 15:07
Nice list, I espicially agree with the reforming the forum, i always thought it needed that done. To bad im not a developer, so i can not see the developer room :(

It is a good idea to keep some things inbetween the developers only, so suggestions or interference won't happen to slow down the process. I of course believe it should be open in such a way people can check work in progress stuff, as we have on the current forum.

Hapuga
April 9th, 2010, 15:12
I may assist you with translation works, some forum supervising and general project management. I am sufficient at mapmaking also. I am a bit busy atm but I will have much more free time in may.

Metal Gear Rex
April 9th, 2010, 15:17
While I'm still out here and using my hotel internet time, I made a post for the developers and see if we can get a new layout for WFTO and archive all the old stuff, salvaging a few things if they are popular or important. Also included is a proposed plan of action. Hopefully the developers can discuss this while I'm off doing something else.





I hope this is a step in the right direction.
And with this post, I head off once more. I'll see if I can check in on this 15 hours from now...

Heehee, you just put Hydroblast there cause he's your cosin :P

But seriously speaking, I like that design. It looks very well done.

A New Room
April 9th, 2010, 16:03
Development (Private) -- (Same as the currently have, a private forums for the developers)

You told them about the secret forum! Now they are going to launch expedition parties in search of it's wonderful treasures! :eek:

I assume you will be telling them next about the door hidden inside the first "K" in "Keeper Klan", that leads to the locations of the Loch Ness Monster, Big Foot and my Lost Set of Keys?!

Good lord man! What were you thinking?!



Nice list, I espicially agree with the reforming the forum, i always thought it needed that done. To bad im not a developer, so i can not see the developer room :(

It is a good idea to keep some things inbetween the developers only, so suggestions or interference won't happen to slow down the process. I of course believe it should be open in such a way people can check work in progress stuff, as we have on the current forum.

I'm sure that most things to do with progress that are discussed in the developer thread will make their way out side of it in some way or another. :)

Hopefully not in some strange broken telephone manner. I would really hate for "We are making good progress" to end up as "Tea is best serve out of gods' noses"

kyle
April 9th, 2010, 16:31
I dislike the words, progress is good ;)

I prefer to know what there working on and any problems that they might be met with.

MaxHayman
April 9th, 2010, 19:11
We can have a nice forum, but development should be first.

Monsterbaby
April 9th, 2010, 21:22
I dont see why we should change forum, when this one works better than great, and all which is needed is just a bit of cleanup in the Dev. section and a chance in tne user rights for the forum, etc. It can be fixed, and it should be. No reason to move somewhere else. I like the place here, with nice profiles, where there is room for fun and extra stuff.

kyle
April 9th, 2010, 21:33
monsterbaby, he was reffering to the forum categorys not the forum itself.

Sire
April 10th, 2010, 00:08
I say have a solid foundation to start from first, then development can start.

kyle
April 10th, 2010, 15:04
So, I am pretty keen to know if any thing has been put into action. Like a schedule or something.

Sire
April 10th, 2010, 16:32
Currently, I am waiting for my proposed plan of action to take place (still don't know if the rest of the developers like it save for one.)

I would like the new layout to be in place before the important questions start being asked. This way, we don't have to move around the threads that much when the new layout comes around. (I am still wondering if I got mod powers in the WFTO sections, if I do then I should be able to move the threads around myself when I get back [tomorrow night].)
Then, we start asking where do we start our storyline (DK I, DK II, Both, or make our own). That way we can decide what units to use and how to create the backstory. Another important question is the use of Horned Reapers (DK I units, DK II super unit, or both). And the final one I can currently think of is how we will cast Keeper Spells. Do we use gold or the mana system?
After that, we create a standard for suggestions (actual number values or compare it to an existing unit) and have a semi-official list of units that will be in WFTO so it can be easier to balance.
After the foundation has been laid, then for the most part true progress can begin, as well as member suggestions can take place within the standard.

1: New Layout
2: Important Questions (Storyline, Horned Reapers, Keeper Spell currency)
3: Set values and semi-official list of ideas to be used.
4: Get working!

* * *

If you want to know my personal progress, I'm still on vacation and will be back tomorrow night. I am really hoping for the new layout so we can get the polls up and running and start making some progress, alas, I don't know if the rest of the developers approve of the new layout save for one.
My current task (I believe) is to inform the public of what the heck is going on, as well as my current duties (Suggestion Idea List, Test Realm Manager, etc). Storyline and perhaps a bit of gameplay will start to take a role after we get this foundation in place.

Hapuga
April 10th, 2010, 17:01
Pretty much agree. I would suggest to make an invisible subsection for development. Not everything we do should be seen by all KK members and visitors. This is essential for avoiding spam, annoying questions, disagreements and other stuff like that.

Monsterbaby
April 10th, 2010, 17:14
Pretty much agree. I would suggest to make an invisible subsection for development. Not everything we do should be seen by all KK members and visitors. This is essential for avoiding spam, annoying questions, disagreements and other stuff like that.


Don't forget the most important one of all. Interference!!!

Hapuga
April 10th, 2010, 17:33
Exactly.

P.S.
get on skype =)

Mothrayas
April 10th, 2010, 17:36
Pretty much agree. I would suggest to make an invisible subsection for development. Not everything we do should be seen by all KK members and visitors. This is essential for avoiding spam, annoying questions, disagreements and other stuff like that.


Don't forget the most important one of all. Interference!!!

It could of course also be made visible, but read-only for non-WftO developers. That way random people can't interfere and spam in there, but they would still know what's actually going on.

Hapuga
April 10th, 2010, 17:49
I'd respectfully disagree. It's always better to feed the public with chunks of info than letting them see all the work and arguing process. I already imagine the amount of PM's we'll get if we let it be open with messages like "nonono, you should do this and this instead!" :D

Synesthesia
April 10th, 2010, 18:05
I vote for sub forums in the new layout. They're much better for keeping things well organised, well labelled and easy to find imo.

Something like this:

http://www.pdportraits.co.uk/index_files/Layoutwfto.jpg

dotted
April 10th, 2010, 18:08
I'd respectfully disagree. It's always better to feed the public with chunks of info than letting them see all the work and arguing process. I already imagine the amount of PM's we'll get if we let it be open with messages like "nonono, you should do this and this instead!" :D

That statement is wrong on so many levels. OpenTTD gets by just fine for example (http://wiki.openttd.org/Requested_features). However since the SVN is public, all developement will pretty much be public aswell.

Hapuga
April 10th, 2010, 18:15
That statement is wrong on so many levels. OpenTTD gets by just fine for example (http://wiki.openttd.org/Requested_features). However since the SVN is public, all developement will pretty much be public aswell.

Then why do most of developers have their forums closed? They all are morons and idiots, right?

I dont really care how it will be, I only suggest something that in my opinion is the best way to do.

kyle
April 10th, 2010, 18:34
Synthesia's here!

I thought you where gone forever :(

I like syn's layout, I remember an other topic where syn suggested something like that but it was not put in place.

A New Room
April 10th, 2010, 18:49
I vote for sub forums in the new layout. They're much better for keeping things well organised, well labelled and easy to find imo.A very good idea.

Though it should be kept fairly basic, the last thing you want is to go trawling through a large amount of subs just to post something. (Ie. Simple: Bakery>pies>apple. Overly complex: Bakery>pastry goods>pies>fruit & veg>fruit>apple).

kyle
April 10th, 2010, 18:53
Like this?

Category: Rooms
Boards: library

Synesthesia
April 10th, 2010, 22:12
So how long are we gonna wait for an answer from EA? I'm beginning to think we should rename everything and replace copyrighted creatures with our own designs. I know we'd be losing a few characters that we know and love but if it means we don't have to worry about EA shutting us down in the future it'd be a big weight off our shoulders and well worth it imo.

kyle
April 10th, 2010, 22:15
Well, Losing alotof creatures will take away from the DKness but it can probally be done if it has too. As for EA I looked around and they said they will make a decision on third - party products once they have a playable prototype in front of them. So I am slightly stumpedon that one.

Hapuga
April 10th, 2010, 22:35
I think the least possible thing EA will ever do is go looking for some fan-made games based on 10 year old universe by a bunch of enthusiasts.

Use some logic.

They are losing millions of dollars on pirated torrent games. Yet, the do nothing to prevent it.

And SUDDENLY!! they are going to ban some immature team of 15-20 year old kids who are trying to make some sort of a playable game.


Duh.

kyle
April 10th, 2010, 22:47
Regardless of what was said above, We have gotta try. I am trying my best to find a better way to contact EA. I was given this number to contact so can be directed further.

Hapuga
April 10th, 2010, 22:50
Unfortunately, my experience showed that EA are neither interested nor concerned about any questions their (potential) customers may have about their games/titles.

I had to wait for 2 weeks to get a response from their staff. And the response was..... "post on the forum!" Now, if you didn't see their forum, go and take a look at it. It's basically a huge junkyard with 50% messages being something like "EA HELLLLOOOO!" and "DO THEY EVER READ THIS!??" and other interesting material.

That's your permission.

Metal Gear Rex
April 10th, 2010, 22:53
So how long are we gonna wait for an answer from EA? I'm beginning to think we should rename everything and replace copyrighted creatures with our own designs. I know we'd be losing a few characters that we know and love but if it means we don't have to worry about EA shutting us down in the future it'd be a big weight off our shoulders and well worth it imo.

That is one of the things going on with OD, yet as we all stand here, not too many agree with it.

I'd say try and get some kind of permission from EA, otherwise if we decide to change everything, then we might as well move in with OD so we have one large team, instead of two smaller ones.

However I'd honestly like to see that avoided if possible. I really would like to see WftO as a definate DK3.

kyle
April 10th, 2010, 22:54
I know what you mean. I got that number from an advisor and I had to really ask him alot to give me it, He said to me, post your suggestion on the forums. After me telling him the entire situation. So I am just gonna try contact someone who can give me an answer.

Hapuga
April 10th, 2010, 22:58
The only way to get a permission is to phone them directly.

Other ways are in vein. They simply ignore you. Both by mailing, website service and forum posting. They don't give a shit.

Someone has to call them.

Here's all the required information:

http://www.ea.com/2/legal-notices

kyle
April 10th, 2010, 23:01
I got a number from that guy, Im not far away from getting the number to contact them i think (Like some sort of freaking quest). If I do get the number, i don't belive I should be the one to phone them ( Even though it's my job to hassle them) I might just fuck it up.

EDIT: Oh well, I can't believe i missed that.

Hapuga
April 10th, 2010, 23:02
Coward. send me the number then, I'll phone them if the line is free of charge.

kyle
April 10th, 2010, 23:04
You callin me a coward!
I just don't want them to say no because I end up not knowing what to say propperly.

Hapuga
April 10th, 2010, 23:06
You callin me a coward!
I just don't want them to say no because I end up not knowing what to say propperly.

So how did you apply for the negotiating position then? Here we go again.

Just give me all the contacts, I'll call them.

kyle
April 10th, 2010, 23:09
I wasn't planning to call them at his point.

If you want the number here it is: 650-628-1001

might add that this is a techinical help line, the advisor told me these people could direct me further.

Hapuga
April 10th, 2010, 23:10
okay, fair enough. I'll call them tomorrow.

EDIT

I'll post a complete dialogue with them in a separate thread.

EDIT 2

The thing that really maddens me that nobody did that, and so much time have passed since the first talks about legal issues. Well, a right saying indeed: "If you want something done, do it yourself."

MaxHayman
April 10th, 2010, 23:56
Why is everyone getting raged over permission from EA. We have been discussing DK3 on KeeperKlan for years now, they haven't said anything. As they have said they want a PLAYABLE GAME. My personal opinion is that no action should be taken towards EA Games, unless:

1) We get a working prototype.
2) They contact us.

And the project leader should decide what happens.

A New Room
April 11th, 2010, 00:35
I agree with Ballwinkle, and I believe most of the WftO team would as well. There is no need to panic...

It is not like we have a clock running here. The only reason EA would have reason to order a shut down at this point would be if we start needlessly pestering them. :p

There is no rush, everyone stay calm...

kyle
April 11th, 2010, 00:43
*Panics*

but what if we get far and the EA's like GTFO

Everyone will rage hard.

A New Room
April 11th, 2010, 00:54
I dunno there is a lot of "if" in that sentence of yours... :P

If that does happen: then we will have their attention and be able to talk to them hopefully. Simple as that. :)

kyle
April 11th, 2010, 00:56
I guess that makes sense.

Sire
April 11th, 2010, 06:27
I'm really hoping for the layout to be finished before I get home much later today...
If you guys don't have enough time to do so, I can be an admin for a day or two so I can set everything up (provided the following layout still stands, this layout is how I'm planning on doing my proposed plan of action). Prior admin experience is Invision Power Boards and Zetaboards.


New Forum Layout:

War for the Overworld (Catagory)
Discussion
--The Assembly (Public polls are created here.)
Suggestions (We will vote for the prefix system or the separate forums.)
Development (Private) -- (Same as the currently have, a private forums for the developers)
--Applicants (Where the new people come in I guess.)
Archives (Holds all old threads here.)
--Old Discussion
--Old Suggestions

Important Threads

[Discussion]
Semi-Official Stuff (Holds the ideas that have a really good chance in making it to WFTO. Each post here will have the values for each suggestion or idea.)
Hyrdoblast's Concept Art (Holds all of Hydroblast's Concept Art here.)
Research and Reference v2 (New thread since we are starting from ground up, a few old pictures may be imported from the old one.)

[Suggestions]
Suggestion Idea List v2 (New list, maintained by me. More or less has the same function as the old one.)
Suggestion Box (Non-members can send ideas using this method.)
Official Standards [READ FIRST] (Sets the common standards for suggestions, a normalized layout and what each value is approximate to. This can also be where the find the official number values for the semi-official ideas.)

There shall be threads explaining the function of The Assembly and the Archives as well.

dotted
April 11th, 2010, 08:12
okay, fair enough. I'll call them tomorrow.

EDIT

I'll post a complete dialogue with them in a separate thread.

EDIT 2

The thing that really maddens me that nobody did that, and so much time have passed since the first talks about legal issues. Well, a right saying indeed: "If you want something done, do it yourself."

Make sure you get the permission in written form, it absolutely must be in writing or it will be useless.


Why is everyone getting raged over permission from EA. We have been discussing DK3 on KeeperKlan for years now, they haven't said anything. As they have said they want a PLAYABLE GAME. My personal opinion is that no action should be taken towards EA Games, unless:

1) We get a working prototype.
2) They contact us.

And the project leader should decide what happens.

EA is not gonna do and probably can't do anything aslong as it is just discussions. And in anycase development doesn't really have to wait for EA's permission, that can easily be done in the background.

And to be honest i doubt the whole prototype thing, is for this kind of request.


I'm really hoping for the layout to be finished before I get home much later today...
If you guys don't have enough time to do so, I can be an admin for a day or two so I can set everything up (provided the following layout still stands, this layout is how I'm planning on doing my proposed plan of action). Prior admin experience is Invision Power Boards and Zetaboards.
As i haven't been ordered to change anything I'm not gonna do it, don't rely on me reading your discussions and make changes. Get QwentyJ to PM with whatever changes that needs to be done. Giving you admin is completely out of the question, thats for sure.

Hapuga
April 11th, 2010, 09:08
Make sure you get the permission in written form, it absolutely must be in writing or it will be useless.

Of course, that is beyond question. I will have some sort of official document either by mail or by email.

kyle
April 11th, 2010, 17:37
Where is Qwenty, he hasn't been on in a while?

QwentyJ
April 11th, 2010, 17:40
Where is Qwenty, he hasn't been on in a while?

I'm here, just had internet problems for most of the weekend! :mad:

I'm going to have a nice spring clean of the forum tonight! ^_^

kyle
April 11th, 2010, 17:42
Oh thank god your safe, I feared the worst and thought dinosaurs had taken you away :(

EDIT: So are you changing the layout, if so whos layout are you gonna use?

QwentyJ
April 11th, 2010, 17:50
Oh thank god your safe, I feared the worst and thought dinosaurs had taken you away :(

EDIT: So are you changing the layout, if so whos layout are you gonna use?
Depends on your use of the term layout - I'm just going to some stickying and non stickying pretty much. I was going to delete a lot of threads, but as there's probably a lot of good info on these sorts of threads, in reflection it might not be best to delete them just yet. When we have the lore finally written down, then I think we can move on.

kyle
April 11th, 2010, 18:08
A thread for the lore would be good.

QwentyJ
April 11th, 2010, 18:49
A thread for the lore would be good.
Indeed it will be. I'm going to close the confimred features thread in the suggestions room and give that to Sire to take all the good stuff from that while we get to work on a new one.

Synesthesia
April 11th, 2010, 19:07
That suggestions page is in desperate need of organisation. Is it possible to colour to the thread prefix text? like red for creatures, green for rooms, blue for magic, yellow for traps, etc? It'd make things a bit easier to identify until we get things organised properly (preferably with sub-forums).

Sire
April 11th, 2010, 21:12
@ dotted

Ok, I'll sit back and await for further orders here. Alas, I feel the need to do more of something here, like helping out cleaning threads. (Can't really do that without official authorization and the power to do so.)

Monsterbaby
April 12th, 2010, 10:33
That suggestions page is in desperate need of organisation. Is it possible to colour to the thread prefix text? like red for creatures, green for rooms, blue for magic, yellow for traps, etc? It'd make things a bit easier to identify until we get things organised properly (preferably with sub-forums).

It would help a lot on it too.

I'm just wondering, when the developers should start pull Suggestions from the sugg. forum to the developer forum?

And I'm also thinking when artists should start work on concept art, is it when the suggestion sounds nice, or when it has been "picked" out by someone, by feel or when it gets to the developer forum?

Stuff like that would be nice to know too I think, to get work a bit more constructive and easier to have an overview of what should in the game, and what should not.

Hapuga
April 12th, 2010, 11:14
It all should be steadily evolving from each other.

That's how prof. companies make games. they make some concepts, then they create a possible engine draft or adjust an existing engine. then they create some basic models, and test the basic mechanisms in it. If they like what they see, they start polishing the models and the engine. When they have a strong core, they start writing the plot in detail.

On extremely rare occasions, devs have an initial idea in their head and they implement it. Usually, in process of making a game devs test numerous ideas. Sometimes finished games look completely different from what devs thought it would be when the just started working on it.

This is why I initially disliked the idea of detailed mechanics without having the engine. It may sound really cool on words, but when you implement it it may be shit.

For example, when I make a map for any game, I always start with an overall layout. A very vague, unclear landscape. I then point out for myself some "critical locations" as I call them. Then I slowly start adding details.
Same with Art. any good artist will tell you that before you make a picture, you first have to create a whole draft. And only then, start working on details. I am not an artist, but I like to draw when I have time, I may have a nice drawing, but it takes me way too much time to do it, just because I do not follow this rule =) I work on different chunks, and sometimes those dont fit.

As such, it is CRITICAL to have programmers, who are able to quickly adjust to the required situation, who are able to quickly implement some basic elements and test those.

Once again, it is not an "if - then" approach. It is all at the same time, growing steadily into one solid piece of art, which we hope it will be.

dotted
April 12th, 2010, 12:31
It all should be steadily evolving from each other.

That's how prof. companies make games. they make some concepts, then they create a possible engine draft or adjust an existing engine. then they create some basic models, and test the basic mechanisms in it. If they like what they see, they start polishing the models and the engine. When they have a strong core, they start writing the plot in detail.

On extremely rare occasions, devs have an initial idea in their head and they implement it. Usually, in process of making a game devs test numerous ideas. Sometimes finished games look completely different from what devs thought it would be when the just started working on it.

This is why I initially disliked the idea of detailed mechanics without having the engine. It may sound really cool on words, but when you implement it it may be shit.
Well the problem is we are not a proffessional game company and currently is an open source project which alone seperates you entirely from professional game companies in my opinion. And writing writing a strong core before writing the plot is a recipe for disaster. Modern Warfare 2 is a very good example of this, the singleplayer campaign plot is absolute awful. But i guess thats how games are these days, not trying to tell a story but just caveman entertainment. Personally i think it would be great if they could be a real story behind WFTO instead of something stuck together based on what we have currently made.


For example, when I make a map for any game, I always start with an overall layout. A very vague, unclear landscape. I then point out for myself some "critical locations" as I call them. Then I slowly start adding details.
Same with Art. any good artist will tell you that before you make a picture, you first have to create a whole draft. And only then, start working on details. I am not an artist, but I like to draw when I have time, I may have a nice drawing, but it takes me way too much time to do it, just because I do not follow this rule =) I work on different chunks, and sometimes those dont fit.

As such, it is CRITICAL to have programmers, who are able to quickly adjust to the required situation, who are able to quickly implement some basic elements and test those.

Once again, it is not an "if - then" approach. It is all at the same time, growing steadily into one solid piece of art, which we hope it will be.
The problem is programming has nothing to do with art or level design in the way it is created. You might risk ending up not being able to implement certain ideas as it would require a major rewrite of code in the engine. That in the end of cource depends on the design of the engine itself, and it is my understanding that NBKE could use several improvements on that part.

However this gave me an idea for a new thread that may or may not be able to help WFTO.

QwentyJ
April 12th, 2010, 13:10
It all should be steadily evolving from each other.

That's how prof. companies make games. they make some concepts, then they create a possible engine draft or adjust an existing engine. then they create some basic models, and test the basic mechanisms in it. If they like what they see, they start polishing the models and the engine. When they have a strong core, they start writing the plot in detail.

On extremely rare occasions, devs have an initial idea in their head and they implement it. Usually, in process of making a game devs test numerous ideas. Sometimes finished games look completely different from what devs thought it would be when the just started working on it.

This is why I initially disliked the idea of detailed mechanics without having the engine. It may sound really cool on words, but when you implement it it may be shit.

For example, when I make a map for any game, I always start with an overall layout. A very vague, unclear landscape. I then point out for myself some "critical locations" as I call them. Then I slowly start adding details.
Same with Art. any good artist will tell you that before you make a picture, you first have to create a whole draft. And only then, start working on details. I am not an artist, but I like to draw when I have time, I may have a nice drawing, but it takes me way too much time to do it, just because I do not follow this rule =) I work on different chunks, and sometimes those dont fit.

As such, it is CRITICAL to have programmers, who are able to quickly adjust to the required situation, who are able to quickly implement some basic elements and test those.

Once again, it is not an "if - then" approach. It is all at the same time, growing steadily into one solid piece of art, which we hope it will be.

Once you get a defined article though, there is always the ability to finely tune and hone things afterwards. Games are no excpetion. If we can push out a demo, and there are things we don't like/could be added - there will be the ability to do that.

Hapuga
April 12th, 2010, 13:44
And writing writing a strong core before writing the plot is a recipe for disaster. Modern Warfare 2 is a very good example of this, the singleplayer campaign plot is absolute awful. But i guess thats how games are these days, not trying to tell a story but just caveman entertainment. Personally i think it would be great if they could be a real story behind WFTO instead of something stuck together based on what we have currently made.


I did not mean the "story" as such. I had gameplay elements in mind, not the setting. A good story will always be a plus, thats why I suggested to gather as much lore as possible. It is time to move away a bit from just sitting in a dungeon and bashing other keepers and goodies.

Like the same issue with multilayer dungeon. We cannot discuss it until we at least test the whole idea. Or we may be ending up going back from afar, and thats no fun at all =)




The problem is programming has nothing to do with art or level design in the way it is created. You might risk ending up not being able to implement certain ideas as it would require a major rewrite of code in the engine. That in the end of cource depends on the design of the engine itself, and it is my understanding that NBKE could use several improvements on that part.

However this gave me an idea for a new thread that may or may not be able to help WFTO.

It is not about the programming, dotted. It is about coming all at once as a single piece, rather than waiting for some team to do their job. Its about how flexible our team is and how well the information is transferred inside.

Agzarah
April 12th, 2010, 15:27
i have to agree here

everything needs to work as one and at the same time.

there is no point coming up with an idea, spending weeks and months fine tuning it into the single greatest invention since sliced bread only to find that once implemented it completely sucks.

you need some form of working engine, in which the ideas while still in an alpha stage can be implemented and tested, and then you can actually see how it looks and perfoms..


the idea/model comes first
then it needs to be implemented
and then changed to fit/dropped entirely
and finaly fine tuned


Same applies to the engine... if development gets too far without ideas being tested in it, the engine may then be discovered to not work to our needs quite how we intended, and must also then be re-writen - wasitng time..
as Hapuga says, both need to flow as one and be created together

it is no good having one side of a project perfected while the other does not work

QwentyJ
April 12th, 2010, 16:10
i have to agree here

everything needs to work as one and at the same time.

there is no point coming up with an idea, spending weeks and months fine tuning it into the single greatest invention since sliced bread only to find that once implemented it completely sucks.

you need some form of working engine, in which the ideas while still in an alpha stage can be implemented and tested, and then you can actually see how it looks and perfoms..


the idea/model comes first
then it needs to be implemented
and then changed to fit/dropped entirely
and finaly fine tuned


Same applies to the engine... if development gets too far without ideas being tested in it, the engine may then be discovered to not work to our needs quite how we intended, and must also then be re-writen - wasitng time..
as Hapuga says, both need to flow as one and be created together

it is no good having one side of a project perfected while the other does not work

Look, there is no point arguing on this, but I'll say what I have to say anyway. In some quarters, we won't get any work because people are busy/we don't have any people. I'd rather have some work done with a view to finding someone rather than fannying about trying to sync everything. This way makes much more sense. Hence why we're trying to get as many people on board as possible when we can. If we have to wait for recruitment, then so be it. At the moment, it doesn't like we will have to wait, so it's okay. When the team is finalised, then tasks will be approportioned.

Agzarah
April 12th, 2010, 16:26
sorry - i didnt mean for it to come across as an argument
just merely trying to put the idea cross that you dont want one branch zooming ahead in development leaving the rest behind, to discover that what was done isnt right.

if for example we dont have any actual coders and are unable to test ideas, then instead of fine tuning them potentially wasting time, get them to a stage where they can be tested when available, and then move onto something else.

constantly productive and moving forwards, but never over productive and going sideways

QwentyJ
April 12th, 2010, 16:32
sorry - i didnt mean for it to come across as an argument
just merely trying to put the idea cross that you dont want one branch zooming ahead in development leaving the rest behind, to discover that what was done isnt right.

if for example we dont have any actual coders and are unable to test ideas, then instead of fine tuning them potentially wasting time, get them to a stage where they can be tested when available, and then move onto something else.

constantly productive and moving forwards, but never over productive and going sideways

ATM, things are working well, so I'm not worried.

I don't think there is any danger of anyone moving too fast. The fact that most of us won't allow that and for the fact that things can be tested for bugs and tweaked.

It's like a checklist, but not being ticked off one by one. All the component parts will fit together. I just hope for a little solidarity.

Monsterbaby
April 14th, 2010, 09:57
I don't really see it's working "well". So far, nothing has changed.

I'd say take the clean up suggestion list, and discuss it here. I don't see why people outside the developers team, should be in the process of deciding things. Everything ends on up in a big mess. Let them come with the suggestions and we decide what gets used or not, by votes or reason I don't care. It is a big bump in the way, if we let too many have influence on what gets decided on this project I'd say... Already now, things are started to become really unorganized and blurred again, and we haven't even started yet!

Please get off the road and go some other direction, because this is gonig no where! People are on the developer team for a reason.

dotted
April 14th, 2010, 10:12
I don't really see it's working "well". So far, nothing has changed.

I'd say take the clean up suggestion list, and discuss it here. I don't see why people outside the developers team, should be in the process of deciding things. Everything ends on up in a big mess. Let them come with the suggestions and we decide what gets used or not, by votes or reason I don't care. It is a big bump in the way, if we let too many have influence on what gets decided on this project I'd say... Already now, things are started to become really unorganized and blurred again, and we haven't even started yet!

Please get off the road and go some other direction, because this is gonig no where! People are on the developer team for a reason.

Well we tried that an failed. What probably needs to be done would be to figure out what roles our creatures needs to have. A tank creature, a healing creature, etc. OD is doing this, and thats what I've realized has been a problem since people where just making up stuff up without any goal other than having a new creature. At least i think this would make it easier.

Closing the off the development futher than it has already has been i believe is the wrong move. We all know what happened to NBKE and its OGRE port. We have absolutely no idea what is going on with those two projects and can only presume they are dead.

Sire
April 14th, 2010, 12:47
Laying a foundation takes time. I rather spend an extra week or two of trying to improve it than rush off and get things done.

Of course, we could always take the Developer-Only route, where not many things are made public and everything is decided by developers. Either way, the developers need solid decisions so we know what's what for the basics.

I'm just a person here. It's up to you guys to decide what to do, it only seems I'm the one throwing out ideas, even when I was on vacation.

* * *

One thing I really believe that needs to be done is clean the Suggestions and start worrying about how we will carry out the other things. I'll create a private poll to see what the developers think.

QwentyJ
April 14th, 2010, 13:08
I don't really see it's working "well". So far, nothing has changed.

I'd say take the clean up suggestion list, and discuss it here. I don't see why people outside the developers team, should be in the process of deciding things. Everything ends on up in a big mess. Let them come with the suggestions and we decide what gets used or not, by votes or reason I don't care. It is a big bump in the way, if we let too many have influence on what gets decided on this project I'd say... Already now, things are started to become really unorganized and blurred again, and we haven't even started yet!

Please get off the road and go some other direction, because this is gonig no where! People are on the developer team for a reason.

I think you couldn't be more wrong. We're taking a step at a time! We're going through each bit of the old suggestions list one by one. How is that in any way, shape or form unorganised?

Monsterbaby
April 14th, 2010, 13:21
The idea of cleaning up the list is nice and a good move, but I still don't understand the idea of having a developer team, if everybody else on the forum takes part in the descisions, by voting on what they like the best. It just makes it less organized in my eyes. The more people involved, the more people starts argueing. My experiences of having too many people oppinions involved in a project, is only turning out to be a bad and very complicated thing to deal with. I don't understand why the people (whomever that might be) leading this thing. Clean the list, and say "heres the final result!, this is what it is so far" and move on. Instead of having people voting and yet still some people are discussion, whats on the list and whats not, and blablabla, all the talking ain't going no where, right now.

Some people should have GOD-Mode on the project.

dotted
April 14th, 2010, 13:46
The idea of cleaning up the list is nice and a good move, but I still don't understand the idea of having a developer team, if everybody else on the forum takes part in the descisions, by voting on what they like the best. It just makes it less organized in my eyes. The more people involved, the more people starts argueing. My experiences of having too many people oppinions involved in a project, is only turning out to be a bad and very complicated thing to deal with. I don't understand why the people (whomever that might be) leading this thing. Clean the list, and say "heres the final result!, this is what it is so far" and move on. Instead of having people voting and yet still some people are discussion, whats on the list and whats not, and blablabla, all the talking ain't going no where, right now.

Some people should have GOD-Mode on the project.
Well the dev team are the guys actually making the stuff, programming, models sounds and so on.

And godmode wont work unless you can make everyone accept all his decisions. Arguments are way better, if they can kept civil.

Monsterbaby
April 14th, 2010, 13:55
Well the dev team are the guys actually making the stuff, programming, models sounds and so on.

And godmode wont work unless you can make everyone accept all his decisions. Arguments are way better, if they can kept civil.

Arguments are better yes - and based on Arguments God-Modes should decide things. It goes really bad if different people decide different things.

And it gives it a better overview, if it is one or two people deciding stuff. "okay guys, we take this and that, based on blablabla" - there will never be a 100% agreement on anything, and no matter what, some people will always be unpleased and dissatisfied with the descision, but thats just how it is. And thats how it is in pretty much any industry. There is a boss somewhere, making the final descisions.

And it is not only in the Suggestion Cleanup list I'm thinking about this. I'm kind of thinking in general. I would love if someone made a descision, and thats the end of it, instead of nothing is really getting decided, just a couple of people agreeing on one thing, and then nothing else happens.
'
... and again, I'm not trolling or bitching on the suggestion cleanup list. It is STILL a good idea -_-

Sire
April 14th, 2010, 21:44
My decision for the Suggestion Cleanup list and participation from the public is so that things do get done. The public will always be around, even if the developers have another matter on their hands.

When the votes comes in, the decision is made, and another important milestone is passed. The public voting thing really is only for the foundations, afterwards, it will be up to the developers for the most part.

I say be patient and wait for the times to pass.

kyle
April 14th, 2010, 21:46
I think sire has put things in perspective for me, lets just get the work done and then leave the Dev's to it.

Sire
April 19th, 2010, 01:11
Well if anyone wants news, I currently do not have any to report. Nothing is currently being talked about besides the poll that (if I remember correctly) was to be closed Friday.

Sire
April 23rd, 2010, 00:19
As before, I still have nothing to report.

Course, it doesn't help that I'm on another anime binge watching Clannad. I know that anime won't have any takers around here...

QwentyJ
April 23rd, 2010, 00:53
As before, I still have nothing to report.

Course, it doesn't help that I'm on another anime binge watching Clannad. I know that anime won't have any takers around here...

Truth be told - I think everyone's cracking down doing work! How's your programming coming along?

Duke will be doing updates soon! So we'll see what happens by Sunday.

Sire
April 23rd, 2010, 01:12
Programming?

If you mean the Web Design, I never started on it yet because of no orders. (I also found other things to do and did not take the initiative to start).

If you want me to start, then I may be able to scrap something together this weekend.

A New Room
April 23rd, 2010, 01:34
In about 2 weeks I'll be able to help with pretty much anything that needs to be done. Ie writing, sounds stuff, helping with the deciding, losing sleep over problems that need to be worked out etc. Pretty much anything that doesn't require me to learn a new language :P

Hapuga
April 23rd, 2010, 07:31
How is it going with the permission from the EA?

dotted
April 23rd, 2010, 07:52
How is it going with the permission from the EA?

It's not, since licensing hasn't been resolved.

kyle
April 23rd, 2010, 14:29
There always seems to be more problems.

QwentyJ
April 23rd, 2010, 16:14
There's a licence thread on the dev board where opinion would be grateful, guys!


Programming?

If you mean the Web Design, I never started on it yet because of no orders. (I also found other things to do and did not take the initiative to start).

If you want me to start, then I may be able to scrap something together this weekend.


Sorry dude, got you mixed up with Ballwinkle!

Don't feel in any rush to do anything, so take your time on it, but if you can, are they any suggestions you would make to aid the web design of the WFTO web pages, i.e. http://code.google.com/p/wfto/?