View Poll Results: Should the Rouge Go Into WftO? (See below for info on options)

Voters
13. This poll is closed
  • Yes the Rouge Should Come into WftO

    6 46.15%
  • I like the Rouge but he Doesn't Have Priority in WftO

    3 23.08%
  • Don't have the Rouge in WftO

    4 30.77%
  • I Don't Care

    0 0%
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Thread: Rogue

  
  1. #11
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rogue

    The worst thing about the rogue is that its invisibility was bugged. As soon as it went off, the rogue recharged it. As a result, you could almost wipe out the whole enemy army with 1 rogue, because enemy creatures did not notice your rogue.
    That should obviously be avoided.
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  2. #12
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Hapuga View Post
    The worst thing about the rogue is that its invisibility was bugged. As soon as it went off, the rogue recharged it. As a result, you could almost wipe out the whole enemy army with 1 rogue, because enemy creatures did not notice your rogue.
    That should obviously be avoided.
    Rouge + DK2 Settings = Broken

    Well obviously. I don't even know why they even did that, it is completely broken. That's why if that is ever done (As it is possible in the original) then usually it is melee only (If you use Speed, Fireball, etc, then you're visible) and the recharge time is going to be longer than the effect time. And the effect time usually isn't very long to begin with. That's if Melee doesn't reveal, but I'm not sure if that will be the case. I'd probably have to prove it can be done and balanced before anybody even considers is considering how people got into an off-topic debate last time I mentioned it for my patch.

    One of the things they mentioned was the Keeper Spell and abusing it but that can be avoided in WftO as we can have multiple Invisibility Spells for WftO. (Like how DK2 had multiple clones of spells) I guess some will reveal with melee but the Rouge/Thief's won't. (Or maybe the Thief's alone)
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  3. #13

    Default Re: Rouge

    Rougues are actually very usefull if properly used many people see him perform in combat once the say he's crap but his main use is to spy and sabatoge enemy troops not go toe to toe. His job is to be controlled and used for important missions breaking open a prison when nobodys looking or just showing you the interior of an enemy base also as a side note you can posses the rouge and use him to assasinate the lord of the land in campaign, or a young elite in multiplayer remember just get him alone with his quarry unless your good at dodgeing attacks
    Last edited by ragegun; September 30th, 2010 at 15:46.

  4. #14
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rouge

    Quote Originally Posted by ragegun View Post
    Rougues are actually very usefull if properly used many people see him perform in combat once the say he's crap but his main use is to spy and sabatoge enemy troops not go toe to toe. His job is to be controlled and used for important missions breaking open a prison when nobodys looking or just showing you the interior of an enemy base also as a side note you can posses the rouge and use him to assasinate the lord of the land in campaign, or a young elite in multiplayer remember just get him alone with his quarry unless your good at dodgeing attacks
    You don't seem to get the problem here. Yes he can be used to assasinate the Lord of the Land, and computer Players. That's because the invisibility was completely broken. You can't compare it. He's not as useless in melee battle as the Thief is, but the main problem is that he's too similar to the Thief. It has nothing to do with him being trully useless, more like the fact that he's a clone and pushes out more useful creatures. That's why he shouldn't have true priority unless some answer comes up...

    ...now I'm pretty sure MeinCookie or someone listed some answers but I've been too lazy to reply... or busy... whichever you look at it :P
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  5. #15
    Vampire MeinCookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rouge

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    He is going to be tweaked anyway. These could possibly work/work in his favor:

    1.) He can scout invisibly... that has to be worth something.
    2.) Give him a really high attack bonus when attacking from stealth... like the Dark Elf Sniper attack. That would make up for his general shittyness in all later combat by giving him an immediate initial combat bonus.
    3.) Maybe give him Grenade? His stealth isn't as good as thief so you may as well put him in a more special forces shock and awe kind of bracket.
    They were just ideas... there are a thousand other things that could be done to improved thr rogue, i'm sure.
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  6. #16
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rouge

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    They were just ideas... there are a thousand other things that could be done to improved thr rogue, i'm sure.
    Yeah there are many ideas. Problem is that a lot of them aren't very good. For example, we could give him a gun.
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  7. #17
    Vampire MeinCookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rouge

    Obviously. That goes without saying, but there are still an infinite number of ways within that to balance him and make him worthwhile within WftO structure... it is just a matter of finding one which people like.

    Perhaps he gains a light regenerative effect on health in his incarnation of invisibility?

    Perhaps his invisibility lasts indefinitely, unless he passes too close to another creature?

    Perhaps he can stalk enemy creatures in the same was a succubus or mistress does allies, slowly draining their health while providing himself with faultless invisibility and the opportunity to explore enemy dungeons? Maybe he can even leech their pay and add it to your coffers?

    Perhaps he can have several poison attacks to supplement his knife and make him more effective in combat?

    Perhaps they can be used to bobby trap enemy doors and traps, so when they come under attack the lose significantly more damage?

    Perhaps they can invisibly hang around enemy miners, reducing their efficiency and filling their own pockets with gold siphoned off?

    Perhaps they gain an attack buff in fighting on someone else territory/dungeon, as opposed to your own?



    Not all these ideas are good, but you only need a few good ideas to make him into a good creature. Even creatures not so well liked, as the Maiden of the Nest, deserve a few hours brainstorming to analyze their potential.
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  8. #18
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rouge

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Obviously. That goes without saying, but there are still an infinite number of ways within that to balance him and make him worthwhile within WftO structure... it is just a matter of finding one which people like.
    Aww but it was a joke :c

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Perhaps he gains a light regenerative effect on health in his incarnation of invisibility?
    No. I really don't get the logic in that... even for a fantasy game...

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Perhaps his invisibility lasts indefinitely, unless he passes too close to another creature?
    I think the Thief should have such traits, as he's supposed to be better with invisibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Perhaps he can stalk enemy creatures in the same was a succubus or mistress does allies, slowly draining their health while providing himself with faultless invisibility and the opportunity to explore enemy dungeons? Maybe he can even leech their pay and add it to your coffers?
    Nothing with gold, but I do like the idea of assassinating. The Thief should be the one going for gold. How about he follows the creature until he's sleeping or he gets tired or hungry. Then while sleeping, he attacks him for a REALLY high damage. Maybe like 3x or 4x his normal melee damage? His melee damage will be above the Thief's btw. If he's hungry or sleepy, he'll try to run out of the enemy dungeon... or just attack the stalked creature. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Perhaps he can have several poison attacks to supplement his knife and make him more effective in combat?
    Yeah... but more so in the effects of stalking. I'm not sure, but the Thief might also have such abilities as it fits both of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Perhaps they can be used to bobby trap enemy doors and traps, so when they come under attack the lose significantly more damage?
    Yeah I like that. The Thief may have such abilities but he either if so, perhaps they're not as strong. These traps could be detected by other Thieves/Rouges, as well as anybody else who can detect traps like Trolls.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Perhaps they can invisibly hang around enemy miners, reducing their efficiency and filling their own pockets with gold siphoned off?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Perhaps they gain an attack buff in fighting on someone else territory/dungeon, as opposed to your own?
    Nah.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Not all these ideas are good, but you only need a few good ideas to make him into a good creature. Even creatures not so well liked, as the Maiden of the Nest, deserve a few hours brainstorming to analyze their potential.
    Yeah some of them suck. I gave my opinion on them though :P
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  9. #19

    Default Re: Rouge

    The Rogue should be given more utility as a thief, spy and assassin. You can make it so he can attempt to assassinate sleeping creatures in enemy dungeons. Hell, it might be acceptable for a Rogue to die as long as he assassinates a few very dangerous enemies before a big battle. Not to mention scouting and mapping the enemy dungeon. Another way the Rogue could be more useful is if the AI creature would steal gold from the enemy dungeons all by himself without you having to control him.

  10. #20
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rouge

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Lord Proteus View Post
    The Rogue should be given more utility as a thief, spy and assassin. You can make it so he can attempt to assassinate sleeping creatures in enemy dungeons. Hell, it might be acceptable for a Rogue to die as long as he assassinates a few very dangerous enemies before a big battle. Not to mention scouting and mapping the enemy dungeon. Another way the Rogue could be more useful is if the AI creature would steal gold from the enemy dungeons all by himself without you having to control him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Nothing with gold, but I do like the idea of assassinating. The Thief should be the one going for gold. How about he follows the creature until he's sleeping or he gets tired or hungry. Then while sleeping, he attacks him for a REALLY high damage. Maybe like 3x or 4x his normal melee damage? His melee damage will be above the Thief's btw. If he's hungry or sleepy, he'll try to run out of the enemy dungeon... or just attack the stalked creature. :P
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