Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: Development - HQX enhancement inside KeeperFX ?

  
  1. #1
    DK.NET Owner Chr!x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    France
    Posts
    46

    Arrow Development - HQX enhancement inside KeeperFX ?

    Hi.

    On DK.NET, someone ask us some questions about using HQX technologies with DK / KeeperFX.

    Considering Google Code sources of this lib, Mefistotelis, is it possible on include HQX enhancement in near KeeperFX release ? Should be easier to add instead of re-making new textures & sprites, and make a closer look to DK original spirit.
    ..:: Dungeon Keeper NETwork ::..
    French (peacefull) Keeper's Community

  2. #2
    Elite Dragon Mothrayas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    1,635

    Default Re: Development - HQX enhancement inside KeeperFX ?

    I'd want to see a comparison image of 640x480 KeeperFX vs HQ2x or HQ3x (1280x960 or 1920x1440 respectively) first. HQX may look nice, but we'd need to see if it works first.

    EDIT: I tried out HQ4x'ing a screenshot, and HQX doesn't seem to make much of a difference.
    Last edited by Mothrayas; February 20th, 2011 at 12:43.

    The Awakening


  3. #3
    WFTO - Lead Producer kyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    936
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: FOG I Kyle PSN ID: CreamedCustard Steam ID: kylemotherwell

    Default Re: Development - HQX enhancement inside KeeperFX ?

    I would love to see a comparison image.

  4. #4
    DK.NET Owner Chr!x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    France
    Posts
    46

    Default Re: Development - HQX enhancement inside KeeperFX ?

    Before :


    After:


    Lest shaper pixel on textures. I think something must be try with this.

    Before :


    After :
    ..:: Dungeon Keeper NETwork ::..
    French (peacefull) Keeper's Community

  5. #5

    Default Re: Development - HQX enhancement inside KeeperFX ?

    Wow, looks really good, would love to see something like this implemented if just for the larger resolutions.

  6. #6
    KeeperFX Author mefistotelis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    1,235

    Default Re: Development - HQX enhancement inside KeeperFX ?

    About the DOSBox screenshots: naming them "before" and "after" is misleading; the 2nd one is just DK in 640x400, and the first one is 320x200 with use of HQ2x.

    Anyway, I can't see any benefits of using the filtering in KeeperFX. What we need for KeeperFX is high resolution sprites, not interpolation. The HQ filtering is great for playing games which do not have higher resolution rendering; KeeperFX has.

  7. #7
    Elite Dragon Mothrayas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    1,635

    Default Re: Development - HQX enhancement inside KeeperFX ?

    Also, HQx only really works well with games with no advanced lighting of any sort and a relatively small color palette - think like Gameboy Advance quality at best. KeeperFX is a step above that, so HQx won't be nearly as effective there.

    EDIT: on the other hand, it may work well for improving sprites. Compare:

    Left: standard 4x resized dragon, right: HQ4x resized dragon

    Last edited by Mothrayas; February 20th, 2011 at 17:13.

    The Awakening


  8. #8
    DK.NET Owner Chr!x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    France
    Posts
    46

    Default Re: Development - HQX enhancement inside KeeperFX ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mefistotelis View Post
    About the DOSBox screenshots: naming them "before" and "after" is misleading; the 2nd one is just DK in 640x400, and the first one is 320x200 with use of HQ2x.
    You're right... partially

    On second screenshot, there is really a scaling effect, despite it's in 640px wide. I write few months ago an article on DKNET for running DK over DosBOX for MacOSX. Inside DOSBOX.CONF, I use "scaler=advmame3x" parameter : "smooths corners and removes jaggies from diagonal lines" (see here for more infos). This parameter is very closer to "hq2x | hq3x" rendering, also supported by DosBOX.

    But if hq2x | hq3x | hq4x rendering aren't very usefull for KeeperFX, may be some other ones exists for enhancing gfx without having to re-create new sprites & textures, nope ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mothrayas View Post
    Left: standard 4x resized dragon, right: HQ4x resized dragon
    How do you get this ? Can you test some other rendering effects instead of this one ?
    Last edited by Chr!x; February 20th, 2011 at 21:37.
    ..:: Dungeon Keeper NETwork ::..
    French (peacefull) Keeper's Community

  9. #9
    Elite Dragon Mothrayas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    1,635

    Default Re: Development - HQX enhancement inside KeeperFX ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chr!x View Post
    You're right... partially

    On second screenshot, there is really a scaling effect, despite it's in 640px wide. I write few months ago an article on DKNET for running DK over DosBOX for MacOSX. Inside DOSBOX.CONF, I use "scaler=advmame3x" parameter : "smooths corners and removes jaggies from diagonal lines" (see here for more infos). This parameter is very closer to "hq2x | hq3x" rendering, also supported by DosBOX.

    But if hq2x | hq3x | hq4x rendering aren't very usefull for KeeperFX, may be some other ones exists for enhancing gfx without having to re-create new sprites & textures, nope ?
    So, we still can't see HQx's effects because you placed two incomparable images as a comparison (one of DK's 320x200 mode and one of DK's 640x400 mode). Can we now get a real comparison of HQx's effects? I doubt HQ2x can turn 320x200 DK into looking identically to 640x400 DK.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chr!x View Post
    How do you get this ? Can you test some other rendering effects instead of this one ?
    Well, I basically took a Dragon sprite and ran it in a HQ4x upscaler.

    I don't have any other specific rendering utilities, but any of them do either this, blur them, or do a combination of both.

    If you want to try out other renders, then try them out yourself.
    Last edited by Mothrayas; February 20th, 2011 at 21:50.

    The Awakening


  10. #10

    Default Re: Development - HQX enhancement inside KeeperFX ?

    I agree with commentators, but let me show you my comparison pics:

    This is original keeper:

    http://i15.fastpic.ru/big/2011/0221/...c4e40b437d.png

    http://i15.fastpic.ru/big/2011/0221/...734d3d7d11.png

    This is keeper with direct 3d patch (same sprites, same textures):

    http://i15.fastpic.ru/big/2011/0221/...fdff270212.png

    http://i15.fastpic.ru/big/2011/0221/...f860fde01f.png

    Please pay special attention to keeper's hand, horned reaper in keeper's hand and user interface (for eample - "rooms tab" icon). I think "modern" versions looks much better.


    This is original Strife in 1600x1200:

    http://i15.fastpic.ru/big/2011/0221/...35d5372d0b.png

    This is Strife with HQ4x in opengl in 1600x1200:

    http://i15.fastpic.ru/big/2011/0221/...76aa6dd75b.png


    So - what we have now:

    1) Direct 3d patch uses same sprites and textures, as original keeper95.exe do.
    2) "Strife" hq4x version uses same sprites and textures, as original version do.
    3) Imho Strife and DK looks much better with direct3d\hq4x renders
    4) Hi res sprites is good idea too.


    Questions:

    1) Can KeeperFX handle direct 3d patch and fix "mouse lags" and other artifacts in it?
    2) If no - can KeeperFX use own opengl or direct 3d algorithms for best usage with future hi res sprites\textures and high basic screen resolutions?

    I think (judging on my screenshots) that better graphics is possible even without hi res sprites. Also, this scaling algorithms can be applied directly to sprites\textures.


    And for those who already uploaded screenshots in this topic:

    Please reupload them in scaled 1600x1200 mode for example
    (because when I see this 640x480 images in my 1600x1200 desktop - they are too small, and it is hard to see the difference, but when I play DK in 1600x1200 in fullscreen - there are much larger "squares" in sprites\textures\user interface\keeper's hand).


    Anyway, big thanks to KeeperFX creators and keeper community - you did a lot of hard and efficient work.

Similar Threads

  1. Getting on the development team
    By dotted in forum War for the Overworld
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: April 8th, 2010, 11:03

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •