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Thread: 0.38c flying creature bug. and imp issue.

  
  1. #21

    Default Re: 0.38c flying creature bug. and imp issue.

    As long as we're discussing cheap methods of play at the moment, I would like to add one.
    Using Site of Evil, along with Destroy Walls, is an easy and safe way to map out unknown area without leaving your dungeon open to attacks. Site of evil any ol' place with regular rock, destroy a block with Destroy Walls, drop an Imp in on the unclaimed land, and dig away.
    Come to think of it, you can also nuke things with lightning while using Sight of evil, so you can clear a room before going into it...

  2. #22
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    Default Re: 0.38c flying creature bug. and imp issue.

    About the sight of evil spell, that was mentioned before. I agree that you shouldn't be able to cast spells through that.

  3. #23
    Dragon DragonsLover's Avatar
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    Default Re: 0.38c flying creature bug. and imp issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by HellsFait
    Whenever a group of flying creatures spawns from the hero portal, they get stuck in the ceiling. I really should have gotten a save, but unfortunately...I'm dumb and didn't get it.

    The creatures can be killed, but you either need a dragon, because the AI dragon can shoot his fire straight up apparently, or you need to be very accurate with a long range attack. I just use a spider and spam hail from a-far, but it's hard to hit them when they're half way INSIDE the damn roof.
    That's not the only problem though, the creatures that are stuck in the ceiling are able to move...sort of, and they can attack if you're close enough.

    I've only seen this happen with Flies and Fairies.
    This is a known bug that existed since the beginning. This is a thing that should be fixed indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by HellsFait
    Imps are mildly brain damaged...and hate doors. I can't re-create this one faithfully, but when there is a large area to claim, the imps will miss a square, and just leave it. Despite there being no other jobs to do, the damn imp will stand there smoking ON THE UNCLAIMED TILE, I slap him...nothing, I had one bad case where I had to take the square manually, because no imp wanted to do the job.
    Quote Originally Posted by MGR
    This is also a known problem in the original DK1. I'm not exactly sure on the details, but I think it happens later game or something.
    Nope. This bug hasn't been in the original game. I have never seen such thing after all those years. It's really an issue in KeeperFX since I got the same thing as well, on the last level of the original campaign. There was a square that imps couldn't claim, even by dropping them next to it. I guess it's related to doors. As you may probably know, doors are made of two things : a "physical" door composed of textured blocks and a "thing" door that is represented as an invisible thing that tells creatures that there's an obstacle. It may happen that when a door is destroyed, the "thing" remains while the physical one has been destroyed. To fix that thing, destroy one of the walls that support the door and imps will stop ignoring the tile and be able to claim it.

    Quote Originally Posted by HellsFait
    Now about the doors. I've seen my imps charge across a map, to attack a door. No reason why from what I could tell, but they all just ignored what I told them to do, and wanted that door GONE. I had to build my own door and lock it to get them to stop.
    It may happens when there's a bag of gold on an unclaimed tile or when there's a claimed tile of YOUR dungeon far away on the other side. This generally happens on "Elf's dance" with the Blue Keeper. Imps will start attacking the door since your dungeon is connected in the tunnel at the far west of the map. In these cases, you have no choice to either leave them destroy the door, use a Lava trap and wait for the enemy imp to trigger it or place a locked door.

    Quote Originally Posted by HellsFait
    One more while I'm thinking about it. Imps won't carry bodies to the graveyard by themselves. Not that I've seen anyway, every time something died, I had to drop my imps on the dead guys to get them to take the bodies. There could be an imp standing right on top of the dead thing, it won't do a damn thing with it, but, once I tell an imp to take one body, it will go back for more until the job is done.
    I already reported that one myself. And I'm not glad to see that it hasn't been fixed in Keeper FX 38c as well...

    Quote Originally Posted by MGR
    Yet from there they can be tortured, in which there's a problem as they give away a lot of enemy information.
    You can alter the Imp's "Torture time" value and they'll stop giving informations quickly BUT they will also won't be able to join you quickly and therefore, you'll have a greater chance to make ghosts of them. For now, it's balanced, but you have choice between making them as ghosts or making them to reveal information and join you extremely quickly. You decide.

    And about Imps being made of magic or gold, I really consider them to be created by magic. Sure, we use gold and not mana, but we use gold to PAY the spell. And spells, that's magic. Therefore, I agree with Airandius: I prefer the DK2's way. Since Imps are created by magic, then when they die, they should "magically" disappear. That way, they can't be captured and they can't be used to create vampires. Same thing should apply to Skeletons, but it's less dramatical.

    Anyway, where's the f***ing problem? I don't care how Imps are made, sustained, if they're made of gold of mana, that's not the point. Here, it's about GAMEPLAY. It's about "finding a way to avoid using Imps bodies for feeding the Graveyard, the Prison and the Torture Chamber to avoid the easiness of Vampires and Ghosts creation, but also to avoid them to easily reveal the enemy's dungeon". Nothing else.
    Last edited by DragonsLover; March 5th, 2011 at 21:52.
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  4. #24
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: 0.38c flying creature bug. and imp issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsLover View Post
    Nope. This bug hasn't been in the original game. I have never seen such thing after all those years. It's really an issue in KeeperFX since I got the same thing as well, on the last level of the original campaign. There was a square that imps couldn't claim, even by dropping them next to it. I guess it's related to doors. As you may probably know, doors are made of two things : a "physical" door composed of textured blocks and a "thing" door that is represented as an invisible thing that tells creatures that there's an obstacle. It may happen that when a door is destroyed, the "thing" remains while the physical one has been destroyed. To fix that thing, destroy one of the walls that support the door and imps will stop ignoring the tile and be able to claim it.
    I've encountered a similar error before in Deeper Dungeons a few times, and I think I recall reading about something similar but it would appear we're not talking abuot the same bug.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsLover View Post
    It may happens when there's a bag of gold on an unclaimed tile or when there's a claimed tile of YOUR dungeon far away on the other side. This generally happens on "Elf's dance" with the Blue Keeper. Imps will start attacking the door since your dungeon is connected in the tunnel at the far west of the map. In these cases, you have no choice to either leave them destroy the door, use a Lava trap and wait for the enemy imp to trigger it or place a locked door.
    Or we can go with the theory that Imps HATE doors for blocking their paths

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsLover View Post
    You can alter the Imp's "Torture time" value and they'll stop giving informations quickly BUT they will also won't be able to join you quickly and therefore, you'll have a greater chance to make ghosts of them. For now, it's balanced, but you have choice between making them as ghosts or making them to reveal information and join you extremely quickly. You decide.
    That doesn't sound very balanced to me :/

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsLover View Post
    And about Imps being made of magic or gold, I really consider them to be created by magic. Sure, we use gold and not mana, but we use gold to PAY the spell. And spells, that's magic. Therefore, I agree with Airandius: I prefer the DK2's way. Since Imps are created by magic, then when they die, they should "magically" disappear. That way, they can't be captured and they can't be used to create vampires. Same thing should apply to Skeletons, but it's less dramatical.
    Erm, it was a joke at the end of a post. But it seems nobody got it, oh well.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsLover View Post
    Anyway, where's the f***ing problem? I don't care how Imps are made, sustained, if they're made of gold of mana, that's not the point. Here, it's about GAMEPLAY. It's about "finding a way to avoid using Imps bodies for feeding the Graveyard, the Prison and the Torture Chamber to avoid the easiness of Vampires and Ghosts creation, but also to avoid them to easily reveal the enemy's dungeon". Nothing else.
    Yes I know, I already pointed that part out earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Anyways, to prevent this discussion from going really off topic, (regretably started by me though you choose what you decide to reply to) let's just leave it as something that doesn't matter because the fact is, there's an abusive strategy with Imp bodies being able to create Vampires. This should be fixed by Imp bodies not being dragable or something similar, perhaps some special property like "UNDRAGABLE_BODY".

    And if abusive strategies isn't enough reason for this to be done, this also occurs often by accident when encountering Lightning Traps.
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