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Thread: The Problem with Heroes

  
  1. #1
    Demon Spawn Lord Onatu's Avatar
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    Exclamation The Problem with Heroes

    Its come to my attention from reading through these threads that many people suggest ways for Heroes to be attracted to your Dungeon.
    To me this is wrong.
    I remember DK1. Heroes could not be attracted to your dungeon no mater what (not sure about DK2 cause I often killed every hero I saw. That game made me very evil).

    I may have grabbed the wrong end of the stick and if so I'm sorry, but if the right end is in my grasp then I think I'm allowed to say 'I DON'T THINK HEROES SHOULD BE ATTRACTABLE.'
    They are the heroes. You are the bastard that killed their Avatar, their King and their Princes. They hate you, why the hell would they want to willingly join you?

    Torturing and converting is a different matter. With time an patience, and a lot of use of the healing spell, you can convert near enough anyone.
    Some heroes should turn very easy and remain loyal, some take forever and may very quickly mutiny on you (and keep doing so no matter how many time you re-turn them). But attracting them seems like a NO NO to me.

    In fact there are two that can be. The Thief, as boy does he want money, and the Witch.
    Anyway, that’s my thoughts. Hope their okay.

  2. #2
    Elite Dragon Mothrayas's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Problem with Heroes

    There are ideas to make Heroes a playable faction in the game; that's what all 'attracting Heroes' refers to.

    The Awakening


  3. #3
    Demon Spawn Lord Onatu's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Problem with Heroes

    I see.
    Well I guess I need to catch up with my game ideas. I'm like the new and unseen new guy of the team. Who misses appointments and classes.

  4. #4
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Problem with Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Onatu View Post
    Its come to my attention from reading through these threads that many people suggest ways for Heroes to be attracted to your Dungeon.
    To me this is wrong.
    Oh noes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Onatu View Post
    I remember DK1. Heroes could not be attracted to your dungeon no mater what (not sure about DK2 cause I often killed every hero I saw. That game made me very evil).
    The lighter-hearted game made you more evil? O.o

    DK2 had something called Mercenaries. Those were in a later version though. They're only attracted through Mercenary Portals, and they still fight with your own Creatures so it kills the point of getting them a bit. :/

    Also, they're only in 3 Skirmish/Multiplayer maps. The editor can't make them, it is too incomplete.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Onatu View Post
    I may have grabbed the wrong end of the stick and if so I'm sorry, but if the right end is in my grasp then I think I'm allowed to say 'I DON'T THINK HEROES SHOULD BE ATTRACTABLE.'


    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Onatu View Post
    They are the heroes. You are the bastard that killed their Avatar, their King and their Princes. They hate you, why the hell would they want to willingly join you?
    Story logic - Killing the freedom of the Dungeon Keeper player since Dungeon Keeper 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Onatu View Post
    Torturing and converting is a different matter. With time an patience, and a lot of use of the healing spell, you can convert near enough anyone.
    Even you? >:3

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Onatu View Post
    In fact there are two that can be. The Thief, as boy does he want money, and the Witch.
    Witch is basically the Priestess, as named in the game. You can't go by script names for everyone. For example, DwarfA, Bug, and Horny are examples of script names not equalling the real name of the Mountain Dwarf, Beetle, and Horned Reaper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Onatu View Post
    Anyway, that’s my thoughts. Hope their okay.
    Why? Have they been coughing a lot? Do they needs to see a doctor? D:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Onatu View Post
    Well I guess I need to catch up with my game ideas. I'm like the new and unseen new guy of the team. Who misses appointments and classes.
    Oh so you are the new guy on the story that kyle mentioned. What an interesting way to meet you, during WftO Debate Time! I'm the other guy working on the story. Nice to meet you... FALCON PUNCH >:3
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  5. #5
    WFTO Developer Dizzi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Problem with Heroes

    having hero as a playable faction is quite awsome to be honest. think of multiplayer! 1v1 good vs evil. I would like capturing enemy monsters and summoning monsters in a "holy" temple. it's worth considering. heroes are seen as stronger than monsters but that was because bullfrog needed to give the player challenge in single player. can always have split data for single and multiplayer.

  6. #6
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Problem with Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzi View Post
    having hero as a playable faction is quite awsome to be honest. think of multiplayer! 1v1 good vs evil. I would like capturing enemy monsters and summoning monsters in a "holy" temple. it's worth considering. heroes are seen as stronger than monsters but that was because bullfrog needed to give the player challenge in single player. can always have split data for single and multiplayer.
    Yes it would definately be fun. It'd be like playing a Hero Fortress map, except the Heroes are controlled by a player. I would really want to play something like that.

    Though I don't think nerfing the Heroes will necessarily make them balanced compared to Creatures. I agree they are stronger, but they also have different unit types which is what makes the two sides so unique. (and more fun to play with)

    Therefore, it really is difficult to judge what the new stats would be to make sure everything is at equal, especially with different maps with different creature availability and such. In DKI and in DKII, the Creature side had the advantage of numbers. I think that's the way to go in terms of balancing, we make the Hero Players have less Units compared to the Keeper Players.
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  7. #7
    WFTO Developer Dizzi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Problem with Heroes

    Yea, true. We can have it like that. So, 1 hero = 2 creatures, as an example. But, how well would sacrificing work?
    If heroes are out numbered, maybe they should have more aoe type skills rather than super strength. Otherwise, the heroes will be very strong early game with pretty much equal numbers as keepers. unless they get slower attract speed.

  8. #8
    Imp
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    Default Re: The Problem with Heroes

    Hmm....even KK has trolls....

  9. #9
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Problem with Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzi View Post
    Yea, true. We can have it like that. So, 1 hero = 2 creatures, as an example. But, how well would sacrificing work?
    If heroes are out numbered, maybe they should have more aoe type skills rather than super strength. Otherwise, the heroes will be very strong early game with pretty much equal numbers as keepers. unless they get slower attract speed.
    You have a point. Perhaps we could set it up so that each Player has their own attraction speed, then we could do that idea. I think that granting each Player their own attraction speed would be a nice addition in single player maps, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Herrekar View Post
    Hmm....even KK has trolls....
    You one of them?
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  10. #10
    Imp
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    Default Re: The Problem with Heroes

    Listen, toughguy, if you think youre something huge, i urge you to play a month of EVE Online. The trolls there are brutal, relentless and the majority of them are actually intelligent, so youre really not impressing me atm. Regardless, this is offtopic, but you couldve presented your standing by acting like less of an asshole to the guy. Fact is, yes he got his facts wrong, but there is something known to civilised beings as tact. You lack it...utterly...that or you just think youre a big deal for some reason. However you yourself also made a very stupid claim regarding storyline logic. Without logic, present day fans will not be motivated to play a game, get with the date and adapt. If you cant do it, well, then thats your problem. Also if you cant write a story with logic in it, then youre not really much of a writer, are you, cupcake?

    nuff'sed

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