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Thread: Ice Archer

  
  1. #11
    Mistress kyle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ice Archer

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Chinese Medieval Uzi - Don't be wrongly attributing their genius or they'll be making you pay when they rulez the world =O

    If this is going to stay a creature then I am tempted to make a hero version/equivalent. I can see that - and it doesn't pose a threat to the dark elf. Is that okay with you MGR?
    I believe that would be the archer.

  2. #12
    Warlock Monsterbaby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ice Archer

    Quote Originally Posted by james.heinichen View Post
    Would love to see anyone come up with some realistic art of how this demon creature might look.

    I need this (or a better) ranged-support unit for the Keeper's side. So far this is easily the most well thought out / balanced creature.

    Gimme soem art,
    Cheers.
    Does that mean this suggestion has been moved to the Accepted suggestions, and it will be in-game? Then we might as well move it asap.

    Also, why does it have to be realistic. Isn't the art approach of this game to keep in within same style as the previous games?

  3. #13

    Default Re: Ice Archer

    Also, why does it have to be realistic. Isn't the art approach of this game to keep in within same style as the previous games?
    I mean that the 'concepts' currently shown give me no real idea of how this creature would look in wfto while still fitting into our set style

    Does that mean this suggestion has been moved to the Accepted suggestions, and it will be in-game?
    No, we just need this kind of creature roll filled.

  4. #14
    Vampire MeinCookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ice Archer

    Quote Originally Posted by kyle View Post
    I believe that would be the archer.
    No more than this is the Dark Elf. Which isn't necessarily a fact.
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  5. #15
    Mistress kyle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ice Archer

    I'm not sure what you meant by that, the archer is a confirmed hero unit is what I meant.

  6. #16
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ice Archer

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Interesting, certainly a valid replacement for the Dark Elf, though I hope that isn't fully necessary. Ice makes for an interesting range mechanic, and its used in such a way as to make this a 'mass suppression' kind of character . My suggestion for the weapon would be something a little bit unique when it comes to DK in the Cho Ko Nu or Chinese Repeating Crossbow rather than more traditional crossbow/bow and arrow forms of archers. Firstly because its bad-ass when it comes to medieval - perfect DK material, and, Secondly, because its the right sort of aura considering the whole suppression orientated focus, Thirdly, because its a downright nifty piece of back to basics tech. It would mean weaker damage, but increased fire-rate would probably balance it out to the same thing and the later ranged abilities could stay one-shot. Also, it makes the Samurai feel a little less alone
    I think that those are somewhat unimportant or less than important details to worry about at this stage for the Ice Archer. However I suppose those details will be remembered and considered in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Onatu View Post
    As always I am here to throw two pence at ya VERY hard.
    The Ice Archer is a great idea, I personally love it. But one things haunts my mind. The need for Creatures to be CREATURES on the Keeper side. The Less humanoid the better, with a few obvious exceptions.
    I think what you mean is less human. There's a difference between human and humanoid. In fact the pictures you posted are kinda humanoid. A lot of Creatures are humanoid but not neccessarily human. I think this thing at least needs to be "humanoid" enough to be able to weild a bow, unless it fires Ice Arrows/Beams from his chest or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Onatu View Post
    I think the Ice Archer should be called the Ice Beast or Ice Demon.
    It doesn't have to have the name "Beast" or "Demon" in the name. I am somewhat getting attached to the name Ice Archer, despite the fact that I still think it isn't the best name, but it still gets the whole "Archer" point across. I don't think those suggested names are any better than Ice Archer to be honest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Onatu View Post
    It should be less humanoid and more demonic. Trying to steer clear of the only ice creature I can think of (The Ice Titans in Disney Hercules) I'd go for something streamlined but not jagged and ice like.

    This is an example:
    http://metroid.retropixel.net/mphunt...nter_noxus.jpg

    Now he looks stremalined, maybe a little too much, and unfortunately a little bug like, but he is clearly not a human and thats the idea.
    I think it should look like regardless of whatever it was before, it is now a beast of ice. I may have attached ice to itself, enhancing itself with the element. Maybe it is ice all the way through, who really cares, although I do like the idea of it melting into nothing if died while being tortured.

    As for its weapon, instead of it having a bow and arrow, or japanese medieval uzi, how about it just having one arm which IS the weapon. Exactly like this:
    http://images.wikia.com/sonic/images/2/21/Zoah.png

    It can fire directly out of its arm alot like Mega Man. It raises arm, points and fires. Simple. It would also allow for it to fire the multitude of other projectiles it gains from its gun arm also.
    Ofcourse this is just my idea, but I really like it myself (obvisually) and had to share it.

    Thoughts?
    I'm actually not sure what to say about the rest of those ideas. I'll think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monsterbaby View Post
    I don't think it would work as being on the evil side.
    Why? Explain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monsterbaby View Post
    The designs you posted, are way too futuristc in my oppinion to fit within the universe.
    To me those were more example to how he might be shaped. Imagine those characters except them being made entirely out of ice. I imagine them actually being kinda sharp and pointy... definately not capable of sleeping in a normal bed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Monsterbaby View Post
    Again - we already have a huge load of creatures. And this one is pretty low on my wish-list. Unless it would be a hero instead.
    I think you still don't quite understand. This is a replacement for the Dark Elf. The Creature count isn't going to go up by one at all. If this makes it in, then the Dark Elf will be scrapped pretty much. Unless of course it has been scrapped already.

    It wouldn't work well as a Hero. For starters, it is a Creature. I don't think Heroes allow Creatures into their army. Secondly, that means the Hero Side may end up with three Archer units, or at least two. There is the Archer that has been decided to go in already, and then the Crossbowman Suggestion which may also make it in.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    If this is going to stay a creature then I am tempted to make a hero version/equivalent.
    The Hero counterpart would be the human Archer. (Human meaning he is the same as in DK1)

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    I can see that - and it doesn't pose a threat to the dark elf.
    But the Ice Archer does pose a threat to the Dark Elf.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Author's Note
    The Ice Archer is the Archer idea I had for the Creature side. Previously the Shadow Elf, but that concept idea got scrapped. This Suggestion would replace the Dark Elf if implimented, in order to have a more unique Archer Support unit. The name is a placeholder, any ideas for a new name? Frost Archer, Crystal Archer, Shiny Archer, and Ice Man are ideas.
    I'm not sure why you're so protective of the Dark Elf. She's very uninteresting, both as a character but also as a unit. She also is very uncreative when compared to the Archer, and nearly a clone of him. The Ice Archer is supposed to replace her, and fix those problems.

    Unfortunately I still feel he's lacking quite a bit of character. It is something I wanted to work on but didn't have so much time for. Still, with what he has as it is, he's definately still a step up from the Dark Elf.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Is that okay with you MGR?
    I don't know what you're asking my permission for. I can't stop you from making a new suggestion. It really depends if your suggestion is any good or not. I see little point though. Even if both the Dark Elf and Ice Archer somehow made it in, there is also the Crossbowman which may serve as an Ice Archer counterpart.

    Quote Originally Posted by james.heinichen View Post
    So far this is easily the most well thought out / balanced creature.
    Well of course, I made it XP

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzi View Post
    lol im shit at drawning but i feel like to draw a sketch
    It better not be stick figures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monsterbaby View Post
    Does that mean this suggestion has been moved to the Accepted suggestions, and it will be in-game? Then we might as well move it asap.
    No, James means that it has been decided that we have some kind of Archer unit.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    No more than this is the Dark Elf. Which isn't necessarily a fact.
    Right now it is either the Dark Elf or the Ice Archer. With the Dark Elf's given problems, and the Ice Archer being the solution to most of those problems, the chances of the Dark Elf making it in instead of the Ice Archer are very slim.

    It is still possible for kyle to pick up James' bad habits then dance in the middle of the streets at night with his pants inside out, drunk, and joined by a cat, and from his drunken rage could kyle go back to WftO and decide to impliment the Dark Elf instead, thus causing the world to end and the cake becoming truth.
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  7. #17
    Demon Spawn Lord Onatu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ice Archer

    Quote Originally Posted by Monsterbaby View Post
    I don't think it would work as being on the evil side.

    The designs you posted, are way too futuristc in my oppinion to fit within the universe.


    Again - we already have a huge load of creatures. And this one is pretty low on my wish-list. Unless it would be a hero instead.
    Sorry I didnt make it clear that they were sugeestions. There is no way I'd want a futuristic looking creature in amongst the Creatures, Heroes and Neutrals of this lil game.
    Besides, I thought that was rather obvious. Sorry for the confusion.

    I will more than likely stand by my idea of a creature not actually holding a bow and arrow but having an arm that is the weapon, but I am shocked to hear that Rex would prefer it more ice like. Dont know why, but that shocked me, lol.

    Personally I hope that this creature, this Ice Archer, does make it in to the game. I loved the Dark Elf, dont get me wrong, but since joining you guys I have seen that there IS ALOT wrong with DK2, its ideas and its Creatures.
    I have seen the light some would say.
    Anyway, I know we have concept artists and every thing, but I never told anyone here I can draw resonably well. Better than the hobo on the street who keeps drawing pictures of stick people giving him money in the hopes that it may inspire us.
    Im gonna sketch two ideas for this Creature. One with a Mega Man styled gun arm and maybe even gun chest, and one without instead having a bow and arrow. Hope ya'll like.

  8. #18
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ice Archer

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Onatu View Post
    I will more than likely stand by my idea of a creature not actually holding a bow and arrow but having an arm that is the weapon,
    I'm not really sure which one I really prefer but without the Bow, I think it slightly ruins the whole "Ice Archer" name. Perhaps we could use the name "Ice Sniper"? Just a thought. But it also might be kinda weird to see him shoot arrows out of his arm. And not DK weird either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Onatu View Post
    but I am shocked to hear that Rex would prefer it more ice like. Dont know why, but that shocked me, lol.
    Weeellll... the original appearance did say "icicle demon". I kinda imagined some kind of demon creature that is fully or heavily covered in ice, which slows him down but also gives him better armor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Onatu View Post
    I have seen the light some would say.
    BS, I bet you just went into the Tavern, got drunk off your ass, then listened to a drunk Monk preach to you about how french fries was better than chicken but somehow misinterpreted it all. Lol, jk XP

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Onatu View Post
    Im gonna sketch two ideas for this Creature. One with a Mega Man styled gun arm and maybe even gun chest, and one without instead having a bow and arrow. Hope ya'll like.
    If you suggest "Ice Blaster" as a new name, I swear to the Dark Gods I will kick you. And blame James because there is a frog on his head.
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  9. #19
    Demon Spawn Lord Onatu's Avatar
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    Smile Ice Archer into Ice Mortar

    You know what Rex... me and you are finally getting along. Come, join me in the Tavern... I shall buy you a drink.

    Okay, here is my general idea. Please critic and tear it apart if it makes ya'll happy. I literally looked at a bunch of monsters online and put together a frankenstien amalgamation. With the hand cannon.



    Firstly I made its back, shoulders and head as god damn spikey as possible. After all, as a wize man once said, it will be very difficult for this creature to lie down. The spikes reduced as I worked my way down its body mostly because lots of spikes make me sad inside to draw. I got down right lazy on the body, especially the arms, and just done a few lines here and there and smudged the rest.
    I wanted it to look evil and so went with the elongated face approach which, if nothing else, gives you loads of room for loads of teeth... and we all know that makes a monster look like a monster right? Right?
    Judging by its body mass it will indeed be a very slow Creature which is its main weakness as the 'archer' unit. Because being able to move quick and fire off all of those projectiles attacks my boy Rex gave it would be unfair.
    Saying that however, it can take a bit of a punishment from physical attacks (have you ever tried punching ice, that shit HURTS) and ofcourse FIRE would make this mass of a Creature retreat like a scared puppy dog.

    I figured its one good hand would be used to slap enemies that got to close, but if you take into account its size and mass, and its elemental make-up, this alone would be pretty devastating to its enemies. So I clawed its hand in the hopes that, if Rex likes this and IF it actually made it into the game as a Creature, it could instead grab its attackers and throw them away from it.
    This would then allow it to continue doing what it does best, firing at the enemy.

    Ofcourse at really close range, and at higher levels, it could freeze its attacker with Freeze or Freeze Bomb and try and smash them itself. But I think that would be a one off thing. This Creature has to be weaker in melee due to its strength in range combat, so maybe it only does this at much levels and in dire situations.
    Hey, it may even grab frozen enemies off the ground and attempt to crush them in hits hand, leaving it vulnerable to attackers, but if its successful destroying an emey completely.

    Its back, unseen here, would just be a mass of spikes all pointing upwards like Shadow the Hedgehog I guess. Gives it the evil look. And you wouldn't wanna stab it in the back, that could seriously hurt.

    Moving to its 'cannon' hand. Imagine the 'viens' on it are a light blue hue, the typical type you would find on a Ice Giant, Jack Frost of Ice Beast picture. They would pulsate lightly, and charge brighter as this beast holds up its arm, points and fires its porjectile. Like an evil Ice Mega Man. Also, on the subject of its projectiles, how about its most basic projectile is not an arrow, but instead a thin shard of ice.
    See below (minus the suprised man):


    Lastly guys, I'd see this Creature lying on top of Rex's Lair idea for it, belly first, and sprawled over the sides.
    Soooo.... sorry for the long chatter, and I know this may have all been in vain, but what do you think?
    Last edited by Lord Onatu; May 26th, 2011 at 16:17. Reason: image wont show up, thanks a lot photobucket

  10. #20

    Default Re: Ice Archer into Ice Mortar

    Health: Moderate
    Strength: Low

    Armour: Moderate
    Dexterity: Very High
    Defense: Below Average

    Speed: Moderate
    Luck: Below Average
    Recovery: Low
    Intelligence: Moderate
    Without bias, I think the above abilities lead to a concept of a more Slim/Fragile type of creature that doesn't recover quickly, so maybe a large bulky icy creature might not be entirely suitable. Perhaps something like this.

    It should still maintain Genderless, though. Perhaps Ice Lancer as compared to Ice Archer, but it doesn't really make a difference, just what they're throwing at the enemy. Icy bows probably look just as great too.
    With its freezing abilities, perhaps Speed reduced to Below Average / Low-Medium. If it moves the same as everyone else but slows everyone else... you get the idea.
    Maybe its Luck can be Average, but that is a preference / opinion / suggestion.

    Construction: Below Average
    Training Rate: Below Average
    Training Cost: Low
    Wage: Low
    Gold Held: Low
    Gender: Genderless
    Looks great
    I might just be silly, but as some of the abilities/spells look very handy / usable, and it comes across as an early-mid game unit, later than warlocks (if the DK1 order is preserved, which it probably not be, just as a comparison). This fits well with the Guardpost attraction.
    Given that order and the usefulness of the abilities, perhaps Wage / Training Cost can be "Below Average" / "Low-Medium" up from "Low".
    That said, I like it that its attracted easily but excels at nothing. This makes the Keeper essentially keep it primarily for a niche role.

    Some abilities like Frost Bolt (likely not Crystal Arrow) might reduce Dexterity Defence etc Stats of the target, possibly.

    As a side note, Frozen Bomb and Icy Barrage have the potential to be very Powerful, depending almost solely on how long the Freeze is, and of course deployment. A bunch of Heroes on my turf, drop the Ice Archer in the middle, send out an Icy Barrage, pick him up then drop some other Creatures. So on so forth. A Mass Slow is less likely to be OP than a Mass Freeze, but that's just my personal take.

    This baby looks cool
    Last edited by Zyraen; June 8th, 2011 at 02:48.
    Dungeon Keeper 1 / Deeper Dungeons Fan
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