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Thread: Ghost Suggestion

  
  1. #31

    Default Re: Ghost Suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lquiz View Post
    So tell me, what's the point in investing all the time in making different ghost shapes if the only ones to ever be seen in game are beetles.
    You invest time to getting different forms of ghosts? Last I remember you just don't heal the creature/hero going into the torture chamber, done. Different forms is a nice novelty and from a developer point of view I wouldn't expect much time, it'd just be about applying the same texture to each already available model.

    As Bluto said which helped my point. "A ghost is a ghost, no matter what form." I think that should be kept in everyone's mind when thinking about this.

    Now. Why did you mention beetles? Are you saying that you only ever let beetles become ghosts when you play Dungeon Keeper? If so, that's your own personal quirk, thus nothing to do with the suggestion.

    Edit:
    Just to make a point of interest, applying more possible tactics into the game could be quite useful and ideas for the ghost allows me to make an example. What I mean is, lets say ghosts had a 99% resistance to Physical attacks (maybe full resistance if luck isn't going to be a factor) and their main form of attack was range instead of melee (using the spell Drain-Life) but ghosts would have a heavy weakness to any kind of magical attack (fireball, bolt etc.) then would that not be balanced? Drain wouldn't take much damage (5 hp at best?) but it would still make the ghost useful from a tactical point, like using them as canon fodder to buy some time from all melee creatures. Its a good tactic if the opposing Keeper isn't thinking carefully or watching the battle.

    It makes the ghost more useful, but not to a point of being over-powered and the idea of being immune to physical attacks is logical, as long as they themselves cannot fight via melee.
    Last edited by Madkill; April 23rd, 2011 at 20:46.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Ghost Suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by Madkill View Post
    You invest time to getting different forms of ghosts? Last I remember you just don't heal the creature/hero going into the torture chamber, done. Different forms is a nice novelty and from a developer point of view I wouldn't expect much time, it'd just be about applying the same texture to each already available model.

    As Bluto said which helped my point. "A ghost is a ghost, no matter what form." I think that should be kept in everyone's mind when thinking about this.

    Now. Why did you mention beetles? Are you saying that you only ever let beetles become ghosts when you play Dungeon Keeper? If so, that's your own personal quirk, thus nothing to do with the suggestion.
    Well. I don't think I've ever seen someone mis-interpret words so much in my life!

    I only meant invest time in the actual game design, coding, and re-texturing. If ghosts are only going to be there in case of an accident.

    I meant that when creatures are coming through your portal, you'll keep the decent ones and just torture the crap ones (ie beetles) to death, for the ghost, hence hundereds of beetle ghosts and nothing else!

    Edit: Your edit caught me off guard! You're now agreeing with me? I think ghosts SHOULD be tactically significant, to make them useful!
    Last edited by Lquiz; April 23rd, 2011 at 20:49.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Ghost Suggestion

    Sorry for the double post, but I didn't have time to reply to Metal Gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post

    Balance and gameplay.

    Believe it or not but Ghosts are potentially stronger and more abusable than Vampires in DK1. (Well, excluding the Kill Imp strategy) It is because of Drain Spam, and also since you can get more Ghosts than Vampires, which makes Ghosts potentially stronger.
    So let's get this straight, your argument for the preservation of "Balance and gameplay" is actually to highlight how "abusable" ghosts are. Are you actually serious? I would also argue that having different creatures come out, depending on what went in as a dynamic gameplay improvement.
    In an ideal balanced scenario, the sacrifice of one creature which you could EASILY have saved with low skill and a hatchery, in an expensive and late game room, would be equivalent, at least tactically, to the creature itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post

    There is probably going to be a Portal cap and a grand cap over everything to prevent undead abuse. Why would we go with DK2 for the Caps? That was just so badly thought out and designed.
    I totally agree, though it's going to have to take some thought. If there's a set cap on undead, it might turn each game into a DK2 reminiscent "20 Dark Knight + x Vampire" scenario.


    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Ghosts being just plain old scouts would limit their usefulness even more, and you were just complaining about how you felt Ghosts were useless. So I'm sure you can agree with me on it being a bad idea.
    I disagree, if ghosts became permanently invisible, with the ability to walk through doors, give them a "hold position" and they could essentially become sentry wards, a massive tactical advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    It is actually is much larger of an issue than you think it is. Think farther for a moment, Ghosts have very poor Melee abilities. They have low Health, low Armor, and low Strength, they're awful in Melee. They belong in the back of the main fighters and should support with some spells and magic. Therefore, even the single difference of changing a Ghost from being Melee or Ranged is a big difference.

    Think of it as telling the Fairy to fight in Melee instead of Ranged combat.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Ghosts melee in the first place? It's only at level 8, when they get drain, that they hang back? (I'm going from my old manual, riddled with errors) There would be a difference yes, you're right. The best way (in my biased opinion!) to fix this would be to proportionally change the Health, Armor, and Strength to the original creature, giving it a better chance at the attack role it used to be, melee or ranged.


    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    I find it odd for a Fly to be casting Drain, or a Knight to cast Invisibility. What about a Bile Demon using Whirlwind? ( maybe?) I can't say I fully support making the Ghoist look more like its living counterpart because of it looking quite strange in cases like that.
    If the creature was translucent and pearly, I don't think it would look odd at all for it to cast invisibility, rebound or drain, it's a bloody ghost!

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Maybe not limit to Magic Doors only. In Dk1, that would be a nice drawback to Magic Doors, but I don't think it matters as much for WftO. For one thing, Magic Doors won't be so overpowered. But also, one could easily block out Ghosts by putting a Steel Door at the entrance of his dungeon instead of a Magic Door. So for all those reasons, I think Ghost should walk through any Door.
    Agreed.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Ghost Suggestion

    I vote approval.

  5. #35
    WFTO Developer Dizzi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ghost Suggestion

    approve it, we discuss details in chat

  6. #36

    Default Re: Ghost Suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Maybe not limit to Magic Doors only. In Dk1, that would be a nice drawback to Magic Doors, but I don't think it matters as much for WftO. For one thing, Magic Doors won't be so overpowered. But also, one could easily block out Ghosts by putting a Steel Door at the entrance of his dungeon instead of a Magic Door. So for all those reasons, I think Ghost should walk through any Door.
    He meant for Ghosts to be able to travel through every door except the magic door, to only travel through magic doors wouldn't make sense, he was trying to say that a ghost can travel through any door except a magic door because magic doors have some sort of magical protection against ghosts.

  7. #37
    Demon Spawn Lord Onatu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ghost Suggestion

    Its got my vote. Approved here also. Maybe move its drain ability much further forward so it never has to make physical contact, and make it highly receptive to magic.

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