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Thread: Ghost Suggestion

  
  1. #1
    Hellhound Blutonium's Avatar
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    Default Ghost Suggestion

    Hey Folks.


    I've come up with a Fresh idea for the Ghosts.

    Ok, here goes.
    I think the ghost is cool, but always found it strange how it fights, and it looked okay, except for when fighting, it was just kinda "there"

    Now what about if we do it like this.
    If you get a Ghost in the graveyard, and a Samurai was the last creature buried, that caused it, then you get a Ghost, but which takes the form of your fallen hero, the Samurai. So basically it acts like a ghost (at temple all the time/etc) but the physical form is this "Ghost Samurai"

    It would be the exact same model, but uses a completely different texture shader that's transparent white, and perhaps has fog particles coming off of it.
    It could even have this kinda "Skeleton look" to it as well (like Lord of the Rigns did it)

    So if you had a lot of Beetles die, you would most likely get a beetle Ghost.


    *I'm not sure what the rules would be if a bunch of skeletons die, if you would get a skeleton Ghost or what, as a skeleton is already the dead that has risen.

    Could be cool?
    Last edited by Duke Ragereaver; June 11th, 2011 at 19:42. Reason: Prefix added

  2. #2

    Default Re: Ghost Suggestion

    Could definately be cool, and my initial gut feeling says shouldnt need a whiole lot of extra code to function properly, although I leave that to the programmers to be determined. I have to admit, given the awesomeness of the idea, i'd be great if we could generate some minor model changes, e.a. broken weapons for those models, which is doable depending on how we integrate weapons with the character models (one skeletal mesh versus character and weapon mesh seperate), but that's just an idea.

    I love it, I didn't like the dk ghosts much either, this gives them a new lease on life. Plus adding something awesome.

    I do have to say this though, it means a lot of extra texture work, and an extra shader to perfect. If you're up to it, then I can only say go for it.

    And yeah, I'd agree, Undead stay dead. That is to say, no skelly or vamp ghosts.

  3. #3
    Hellhound Blutonium's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ghost Suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by DonJoe View Post
    I do have to say this though, it means a lot of extra texture work, and an extra shader to perfect. If you're up to it, then I can only say go for it.
    I think we just
    1) desaturate each texture, give it a light blue hue. save as "Samurai_GhostTexture"
    2) Create a Shader with everything set (Translucency, etc) and use it as a template.
    3) Create clones of the ghost shader template
    4) we then simply replace all the diffuse slots with the "#Creaturename#_GhostTexture" images.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonJoe View Post
    And yeah, I'd agree, Undead stay dead. That is to say, no skelly or vamp ghosts.
    Noted.




    I forgot to add that these ghosts won't perform differently to the old ghosts, just it's actual cosmetic "look" - they can't cast spells like their living counterparts and so forth.

  4. #4
    Fly Priato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ghost Suggestion

    I like this suggestion! Fighting ghost were not very impressive, so if it takes the "body" of the last creature... It can be fun.

    Just one thing: ghost came from torture, isn't it? not from graveyard. Not sure about this (need to play again ). Maybe can be possible to add the ghost shader + texture + other-things... in the same model (living model).

    Maybe give to ghost the same characteristic as alive model, but with diminished characteristics and some added fear effects (in this case the ghost does not look like the original... So can be not appreciated by the purists).

  5. #5
    Beetle
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    Default Re: Ghost Suggestion

    Very nice suggestion.

    Perhaps only creatures with a soul should be able to respawn as ghosts.

    A beetle should not become a ghost, nor should a spider or fly

    Anything with a concious soul should though

  6. #6
    Elite Dragon Mothrayas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ghost Suggestion

    Good luck defining what has a 'conscious soul' and what hasn't. Or try defining a conscious soul in the first place.

    The Awakening


  7. #7

    Default Re: Ghost Suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mothrayas View Post
    Good luck defining what has a 'conscious soul' and what hasn't. Or try defining a conscious soul in the first place.
    Well said.

    It's the torture chamber that spawns ghosts, and considering the other option is a conversion, I never really ever had ghosts, I always healed. Maybe it's just me, but the only way I would ever convert, myself, to letting creatures die would be if they were actually any good. Do you think it's too big a change to make a samurai ghost stronger than a beetle ghost?

    I appreciate we're now getting into unfaithful territory, but honestly, did any of you guys ever actually own ghosts? It's quite a big overhaul, but if ghosts were equal to a converted creature, yet tactically different (let's say, for aguments sake, that they are much less powerful, but can only be hurt by spells, or maybe even that they can ONLY cast and be hurt by spells.), they would see much more game time.

    Because face it, when you capture a creature, there are 3 options, skeleton, ghost, conversion. The latter 2 need a torture chamber, so it's acceptable for them to be better than a skeleton, and out of the 2, you're going to pick conversion every time. The only other, balanced way I can think of, to deal with ghosts is the whole "information has been tortured from the enemy". In DK1, every x seconds of torture time, it was 50/50 (I think) for conversion or map information. It could be changed to when the creature dies, you get a ghost and information, or if you let them live, a conversion.

    Thoughts?

  8. #8
    Beetle
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    Default Re: Ghost Suggestion

    Well in one case I had a game with 70+ lvl 10 ghosts, when clustered they 1 shotted all heroes with drain

    pictures of this can be found on the forums.

    ---------- Post added at 14:51 ---------- Previous post was at 14:50 ----------

    http://keeperklan.com/threads/1750-B...ighlight=ghost

  9. #9
    Demon Spawn Patrician's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ghost Suggestion

    Ghosts were incorrectly described as being able to go through doors in the manual as I recall, but how about we implement that ability? It might encourage more use of the ghost and perhaps a campaign level or even just a moon/bonus level could require the player to make use of their ethereal nature in order to succeed?

    I don't think we should change it so that only by killing the torture victim, and transforming them into a ghost, can you gain information about your enemy. I like how information is garnered from lengthy torture sessions, it seems appropriate, plus a recognisable set-time to receive information such as death seems too efficient and pre-determined for my liking. And finally, when a ghost is created not only would you hear: "A torture victim has died and returned as a ghost.", but you'd get: "map information has been divulged by victim in the torture chamber." (or whatever the narration is) which is far too long-winded, disjointed and wouldn't sound right! And let's face it you can't alter the former line to maybe accommodate a change in game-play, it's a classic.

    Oh, and the only reason I ever have ghosts is when I get distracted by happenings elsewhere on the map and only remember I was in the process of converting prisoners when I learn of the accidental demise! However, I guess in theory ghosts are cheaper (don't have to spend gold healing them either through Heal spell or by building large hatcheries to accommodate and take lower wages than most converted heroes) and require less effort to get hold of than converted heroes/creatures, which could be useful in levels where gold is scarce and you need to be on high alert to attacks. And when there's a lot of doors that need to be navigated through quickly!


    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    Well in one case I had a game with 70+ lvl 10 ghosts, when clustered they 1 shotted all heroes with drain

    pictures of this can be found on the forums.

    ---------- Post added at 14:51 ---------- Previous post was at 14:50 ----------

    http://keeperklan.com/threads/1750-B...ighlight=ghost
    That's quite a spectre-cle!

    Edit: Also, I like your suggestion Bluto, I think it'd certainly make them more interesting.
    Last edited by Patrician; April 22nd, 2011 at 17:08.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Ghost Suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrician View Post
    Ghosts were incorrectly described as being able to go through doors in the manual as I recall, but how about we implement that ability? It might encourage more use of the ghost and perhaps a campaign level or even just a moon/bonus level could require the player to make use of their ethereal nature in order to succeed?
    I like the idea of this, because it does make a tactical advantage to having ghosts (which was really the point of my post).

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrician View Post
    Oh, and the only reason I ever have ghosts is when I get distracted by happenings elsewhere on the map and only remember I was in the process of converting prisoners when I learn of the accidental demise! However, I guess in theory ghosts are cheaper (don't have to spend gold healing them either through Heal spell or by building large hatcheries to accommodate and take lower wages than most converted heroes) and require less effort to get hold of than converted heroes/creatures, which could be useful in levels where gold is scarce and you need to be on high alert to attacks. And when there's a lot of doors that need to be navigated through quickly!
    Seems you're a very similar player to me, easily distracted, and not fond of save state abusing!
    In theory, your points stand, but in all honesty I have never come across a scenario in which I thought: "I'm low on gold, I'll sacrifice this level 8 wizard for a ghost!", and I doubt you have either!

    Either way, I'm totally for bluto's original idea, but also for a bit of a spice-up of the ghost, be it Pat's walk through door ability, or something to prevent a beetle giving the same power ghost as an avatar.



    Quote Originally Posted by Patrician View Post
    That's quite a spectre-cle!
    Your ghost humour drains me.

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