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Thread: Ice Terrain

  
  1. #11
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ice Terrain

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrician View Post
    Would the short stun duration (0.2-0.7 seconds) give enough time for a slip animation? Or are you not proposing using an animation?
    That, I cannot properly answer. The animation could be something like them starting to slip, and they would be "stunned" during that time. That would be something short.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrician View Post
    Also, why not consider dexterity? It makes sense that a highly dexterous creature slip up less often than a clumsy giant (plus I want to see a giant stack it on ice!). Maybe the programming guys can make some equation using speed and dexterity (and luck?) to determine the chance different creatures fall?
    This tile is more so designed to punish fast units by causing them to slip/slide around. There are several fast units with a high Dexterity that would help prevent them from suffering a penalty, thus going against what the tile was inicially intended to do. So I think it should be kept to movement speed only for that very reason.

    Besides, the Horned Reaper has a high Dexterity. With such a wreckless personality, do you think they'd think twice about walking carefully across ice? Also, Giants actually don't have that bad of a Dexterity stat. Bile Demons are the ones with an awful Dexterity Stat. It is so low, they'd probably slip more often then they should.
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  2. #12
    Bile Demon natchoguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ice Terrain

    I as a mapmaker cannot resist to like this suggestion. Also, the ice has no effect on flying units, right? This will make the fly more useful as a scout as he doesn't suffer from his speed. Is Ice claimable or simply another kind of misc. terrain (water, lava)?

  3. #13
    Elite Dragon Mothrayas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ice Terrain

    Quote Originally Posted by natchoguy View Post
    Is Ice claimable or simply another kind of misc. terrain (water, lava)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Ice Terrain can be claimed. Traps can also be built on it, but Rooms cannot be, unfortunately. The more clever Player would take the ice under consideration when placing his Traps down. As a result, he can make his Traps more effective due to terrain advantage.

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  4. #14
    Bile Demon natchoguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ice Terrain

    sorry, didn't notice

  5. #15
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ice Terrain

    Quote Originally Posted by natchoguy View Post
    I as a mapmaker cannot resist to like this suggestion. Also, the ice has no effect on flying units, right? This will make the fly more useful as a scout as he doesn't suffer from his speed. Is Ice claimable or simply another kind of misc. terrain (water, lava)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    About Ice Terrain
    What Ice Terrain does is very simple. It causes Units to slip and fall, thus causing a 0.2-0.7 second stun time, depending on how fast or slow the Unit is. How often a unit slips depends on their movement speed. Slower Units like the Giant or Dragon would never have a problem slipping and falling like the Hell Hound probably would. Some Units can walk on ice without a care in the world, such as the Tentacle or Ice Archer. And of course, Flying Units are uneffected by ice.

    Another thing Ice Terrain can cause is cause a sliding effect. How much a Unit slides depends on their movement Speed. For the slowest of Units, they suffer no sliding at all and can come to a complete stop without a problem. For any unit faster than the slowest, they can slide a distance as small as a tenth of a tile, or as far as a whole tile. The max sliding effect can only be reached by the fastest of Units combined with a Slap and Speed.

    Ice Terrain can be claimed. Traps can also be built on it, but Rooms cannot be, unfortunately. The more clever Player would take the ice under consideration when placing his Traps down. As a result, he can make his Traps more effective due to terrain advantage.

    If a Lava Trap is placed on the Ice Terrain, then once it is triggered, the Lava Trap will instantly be destroyed and the ice will permanently be turned to Water.
    So yes and yes.
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  6. #16
    Bile Demon natchoguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ice Terrain

    my brain is like a compost bin, I have a pretty bad memory. I'll at least say I support

  7. #17
    Demon Spawn Patrician's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ice Terrain

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Besides, the Horned Reaper has a high Dexterity. With such a wreckless personality, do you think they'd think twice about walking carefully across ice?
    It's not really a case of walking "carefully", as dexterity is passive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Also, Giants actually don't have that bad of a Dexterity stat.
    Their dexterity is 60 at level 1 which, although not terrible in comparison to most creatures, is only better than two other heroes: dwarfs and tunnellers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Bile Demons are the ones with an awful Dexterity Stat. It is so low, they'd probably slip more often then they should.
    That's quite a funny image!

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    This tile is more so designed to punish fast units by causing them to slip/slide around. There are several fast units with a high Dexterity that would help prevent them from suffering a penalty, thus going against what the tile was inicially intended to do. So I think it should be kept to movement speed only for that very reason.
    That makes sense. But maybe dexterity could have a smaller part to play (as in contributing a lower percentage to the chance of slipping) as it makes sense that out of the fast creatures, the least dexterous slip up more, no?

    What chance do you propose different creatures have of slipping?

    Also, what do you make of luck being a factor?

  8. #18
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ice Terrain

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrician View Post
    It's not really a case of walking "carefully", as dexterity is passive.
    You really missed the point on that one. The Horned Reaper doesn't care where he goes, and that's going to get him when he starts walking on ice as he's going to slip and fall. Especially given how fast he moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrician View Post
    Their dexterity is 60 at level 1 which, although not terrible in comparison to most creatures, is only better than two other heroes: dwarfs and tunnellers.
    65 can be considered Average for that stat, in case you didn't know. Therefore, they're, like I said before, not too bad with their Dexterity.

    Do note that a fair amount of Heroes are Magic/Ranged (Wizard, Fairy, Archer, etc) fighters, and it is natural for them to have a higher Dexterity. Most of the Melee Heroes are units that should have Above Average Dexterity. (Samurai, Thief, etc) Therefore, I don't think that's a very fair comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrician View Post
    That makes sense. But maybe dexterity could have a smaller part to play (as in contributing a lower percentage to the chance of slipping) as it makes sense that out of the fast creatures, the least dexterous slip up more, no?
    You're trying to make it work more in a logical sense, while I'm trying to make it work more in a gameplay sense.

    If anything, I think the Samurai should probably be the only fast unit that has less of a problem slipping compared to other fast units. And here is where Dexterity becomes a problem. Look at his Dexterity in the wiki like you did for the Giant and everybody else, you'll see his Dexterity is significantly lower than the Horned Reaper's.

    That means the Samurai would have more trouble with th Ice than the Horned Reaper, which doesn't make sense logically, and thus going against your arguement, ironically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrician View Post
    What chance do you propose different creatures have of slipping?
    Will think about that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrician View Post
    Also, what do you make of luck being a factor?
    That stat effects enough already. Also, there are a few spells that increase/decrease luck, and it may give too much of a terrain advantage if on Ice.
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  9. #19

    Default Re: Ice Terrain

    I might just be silly, but I don't like this Terrain as it is in this form.

    Firstly, it has 2 effects, Stun & Slip, which is too much. It can be Slip or Stun, but I don't think it should be both.

    Secondly, it is supposed to give an added advantage when creatures are moving such that slipperiness also fires off multiple traps at once. Without practical experience of seeing it ingame, this is almost useless for planning purposes. AoE traps may be less effective if they fail to catch the "victim" inside, and single-target traps will find the enemy clearing most of them rapidly. It may be clear to you and whoever designs it as to the exact mechanics of Dexterity, Movement Speed etc that increases slippage and stun, but personally I find myself scratching my head at how to plan for both Stun and Slip.

    So what it does though, is create a Barrier between the "Insiders" and "Newbies", unless the slipping rules become more simplified. I think its better to keep Slip as a fixed Percentage for each ground-based creature above a certain speed, and the slip distance visibly proportional to speed. Some rule that can be easily, intuitively grasped when watching how your units walk on it.

    Last but not least, what creatures would walk over Slippery Terrain? There's only 2 general types

    1) Invading, non-Keeper-aligned Hero : these poor clueless noobs are disadvantaged enough already, without Keeper spells, traps, and being susceptible to an almost innumerable number of stuff I can put up / dig out between them and my Dungeon Heart, lol. Besides, push comes to shove they'd probably end up closer to your Ranged units than normal...

    2) Combat between 2 Keepers :
    Again, this is very mixed bag of tricks. You have 2 lines of Melee rushing at one another, they slip past each other and.... they either turn around to engage each other, or they attack the respective enemy Support units. In this case, I don't see it as an ideal terrain to hold combat.. of course with tactical spread / non-alignment (ie Ranged Support not standing behind Melee, but rather diagonally away / sideways from Melee so the slip-past does not bring the enemy closer to the support).

    So, where it matters most, which I think is in combat, its probably not effective / unpredictable. In that case, it'll probably be avoided as a battle-confrontation-spot. So.. what's the point?

    Needless to say, any non-combat movement over Ice tiles is probably just irritating.
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  10. #20
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ice Terrain

    It's Slip and Slide, not Slip and Stun. The Slip is the Stun, pretty much. Only Movement Speed will effect these two, and the slipping obviously won't be so often that it becomes an annoyance. If you're just passing through when not in combat, the chances of you slipping are pretty low during the time you're walking over it. Unless of course you're moving very fast.
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