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Thread: The Confusion Trap

  
  1. #21

    Default Re: The Confusion Trap

    I like some of the ideas, and some don't make sense on their own, so let's try to take it forward with something workable..

    The drawback in picking up the confused Unit would be that they're separated from the main group and therefore become useless to them.
    Beg to differ slightly. Technically, a Confused Unit under this new idea is a fully functional unit once it encounters Enemies. It simply doesn't 'progress' to Call To Arms, etc. Keeper battles occur theoretically defensively or offensively - practically though, they almost always happen along the "borders", where both Keepers can drop their creatures into battle. Therefore, being able to pick up a "Confused" Creature doesn't make the creature useless, it makes the Trap useless - the Creature simply is dropped back into where the battle is.

    Here's My Suggestion:
    It causes a confuse status effect which effects only the first Creature to step on the Trap. Said Creature will then act like a Neutral Hostile, attacking both enemies and allies. The effect lasts for ~5 seconds and when the Trap is triggered, it deactivates all neighboring Confusion Traps. (To prevent Confusion Trap spam) Recharge Time could be ~20 seconds and it would use a good amount of Mana to both maintain and also to cast.
    This sounds fun, except the deactivating nearby traps is a bit extreme. It would also be circumvented by putting a Word of Power Trap adjacent, and blasting the enemy creatures onto other Confusion Traps, each 1 square apart from each other. The trap effect itself could be very powerful or very weak, depending on which creature is affected.

    One other idea would be to make it have a single shot so once it goes off, it never goes off again. (Like the Boulder Trap) If you do that, though, then perhaps decrease the Mana Cost or possibly increase the effect time. (No more than 10 Seconds though)
    AoE Mass Neutral Hostile sounds OP to me, even if its just one charge. The damage effect is almost uncapped, so I'd have to disagree with this one.

    At this point, maybe its worth considering Tomha's note...
    Maybe I could edit it to where instead of being a Confusion Trap, it has nothing but Debuffs. Like when the enemy triggers it, instead of having a possibility of being a Buff, All the listed effects are different kinds of debuffs, also remove the chance of the trap failing.

    Do you guys think a Random Debuffer Idea would be better then the Confusion Trap Idea? (It'd be random like the Confusion Trap but all the results will be different kinds of debuffs so it'd be more reliable. I'd probably have to disable the friendly fire feature for the alternate version.)
    Like MGR, I'm no fan of random effects, but we could make it very practicable and simple - an AoE -30% Accuracy -30% Defence lasting for say, 30 seconds to 1 minute, that CANNOT be stacked (making multiple traps meaningless). The "Confusion" effect stays and the creature mills around aimlessly for XX seconds (again, making multiple traps meaningless, as it will trigger off more traps nearby that doesn't stack debuff, only extends the Confusion time), though if it sees an enemy it will still attack the enemy.

    Taking MGR's suggestion, if picked up and dropped it will still engage the enemy, but with a -30% Accuracy and -30% Defence it should still be worth setting the trap.

    So who is affected? If its an AoE Cloud, I suggest once per charge, same as Boulder Trap.
    If its a single target, I suggest a 5 second recharge time (its pretty tame now, be meaningless and gain a debuff) similar to a Lightning Trap but with less charges, say 5 charges.

    Note that a single-target Trap is possibly more useful, because it separates invading Heroes, breaking them up, whereas a Cloud-type Trap that makes them all mill aimlessly can make separate Heroes JOIN UP, since they all get stuck at the area until the Cloud disperses.
    This can make a trap with some usefulness and also some uselessness.
    Last edited by Zyraen; August 8th, 2011 at 08:56.
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  2. #22
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Confusion Trap

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyraen View Post
    Beg to differ slightly. Technically, a Confused Unit under this new idea is a fully functional unit once it encounters Enemies. It simply doesn't 'progress' to Call To Arms, etc. Keeper battles occur theoretically defensively or offensively - practically though, they almost always happen along the "borders", where both Keepers can drop their creatures into battle. Therefore, being able to pick up a "Confused" Creature doesn't make the creature useless, it makes the Trap useless - the Creature simply is dropped back into where the battle is.
    It does make the Creature useless for a while. If there's a battle going on around the Trap, then there obviously will be enemy Units nearby for the confused Unit to attack. Picking that Unit up will prevent him from attacking enemies and he will then become useless. If the Confused Unit is, for example, a Tank, then he also won't be around to take the hits and weaker Allies will become more vulnerable.

    After you drop the Creature back into battle, he's still confused. By your definition of the Confusion State, he's going to stand around and not rejoin the battle because he won't follow the Call to Arms. This isn't something that can be abused because picking up the Confused Unit only makes things worse if we make the Confused Status follow your definition of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyraen View Post
    This sounds fun, except the deactivating nearby traps is a bit extreme.
    Um, Zyraen... what are you talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    The effect lasts for ~5 seconds and when the Trap is triggered, it deactivates all neighboring Confusion Traps. (To prevent Confusion Trap spam)
    It only deactivates Confusion Traps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyraen View Post
    AoE Mass Neutral Hostile sounds OP to me, even if its just one charge. The damage effect is almost uncapped, so I'd have to disagree with this one.
    Again, what are you talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    One other idea would be to make it have a single shot so once it goes off, it never goes off again. (Like the Boulder Trap) If you do that, though, then perhaps decrease the Mana Cost or possibly increase the effect time. (No more than 10 Seconds though)
    I never said anything about an Area of Effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyraen View Post
    Like MGR, I'm no fan of random effects, but we could make it very practicable and simple - an AoE -30% Accuracy -30% Defence lasting for say, 30 seconds to 1 minute, that CANNOT be stacked (making multiple traps meaningless). The "Confusion" effect stays and the creature mills around aimlessly for XX seconds (again, making multiple traps meaningless, as it will trigger off more traps nearby that doesn't stack debuff, only extends the Confusion time), though if it sees an enemy it will still attack the enemy.
    I actually had two suggestions. My second suggestion, which came to mind as I was writing out the first suggestion, was similar to that without the walking around aimlessly part. Though I decided against mentioning it as it reminded me of the Web Trap suggestion and I didn't want to create something that was a bit similar to that. (At least I think it reduced Dexterity/Defense, I know it reduced movement speed for a fact though)

    Though about walking around aimlessly, I don't quite like the idea of that. It is either useless or abusable. If an enemy is near, it becomes a useless trait as the Confused Units just attack the enemy. Without an enemy, however, the Confused Units will begin wandering about and won't progress farther into the dungeon to attack. This would effectively stop them from progressing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyraen View Post
    Note that a single-target Trap is possibly more useful, because it separates invading Heroes, breaking them up
    That can be abused, and you know it.

    It also supports Confusion Trap spam. If Creature A triggers Confusion Trap A, then they'll wander about aimlessly. Creature B will continue on without Creature A and then hit Confusion Trap B and begin wandering about aimlessly. Creature C... hopefully you know what happens next.

    * * * * *

    Due to what you said earlier, Zyraen, I did think of something to add onto my Confusion Trap suggestion to make it more balanced. Perhaps it effects a large group of Enemy Units, but in a different way. The Enemy Unit who inicially triggered the Trap will become confused, but everyone else will gain an immunity to the Confusion Trap for xx Seconds.

    This would effectively make Confusion Trap spam useless as every other Unit would gain an immunity. Triggering another Confusion Trap would only backfire on the Player as all it would do is reset the Immunity Timer for the Enemy Units.
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: The Confusion Trap

    Originally I said that whoever was effected by the trap couldn't be picked up or possessed (I probably should have mentioned slapped), so we wouldn't have to worry about the trap becoming worthless. I think it'd make more sense if the effected creature becomes a hostile neutral for the brief period of time, that way you CAN"T help him in anyway.

    But yeah if we did the Immune thing for a limited time it could force the players to only use 1 per hallway.

    As for how long the effects... Maybe about 5 seconds for the Hostile Neutral, and 65 seconds for immunity? (I say 65 cause 5 of those seconds is the longest time they need to deal with the victim of the trap, so they'd really have 60 seconds of immunity. Plus an entire minute of being immune really does make spamming the trap pointless.) Instead of having a Recharge time maybe make it a 1 time use like the Boulder Trap.

    But I still think it'd be best to keep the certain creatures permanently immune to the trap plan because it'd be OP if you had like a Horned Reaper trigger the trap. This could always be easily explained that while Turncoat works because it's magic, we could easily justify this by saying the Confusion Trap uses Psychoactive drugs to confuse the victim. So with that in mind we could just say their immune system would resist the drugs. We could also probably justify the temporary immunity by easily saying the drug works by breathing it in so they held their breaths. (The victim in question wouldn't know he needed to hold his breath because he just triggered it, but yeah it's probably dumb trying to explain why it would('nt) work considering the game xD. I just felt like mentioning a possible reason.)

  4. #24
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    Default Re: The Confusion Trap

    Name: Confusion Trap

    Uses: Once, afterwards it requires replacement
    Mana Drain: 100 mana
    Target: Area of Effect
    Friendly Fire: no
    Cooldown: none
    Recovery: None

    Information: A Trap that turns whoever triggers it into a hostile neutral for a brief period of time while everyone else within the range of the triggered trap becomes immune to it for a period of time.

    Function: When the trap is triggered it releases a red smoke to fill a small range area. The person who triggered said trap becomes hostile neutral for 5 seconds while everyone else within the smoke becomes immune for 65 seconds.

    Appearance: Much like the Spike Trap, only red and instead of spikes coming out, it's red smoke.


    Creature wise only the following are not affected by the trap (If their applicable.)

    Undead (Vampires, Skeletons, ghosts, ect)
    Horned Reaper/Horny
    Lord of the Land (or Knights in general if you want)
    Avatar
    Any Mindless creature (Like Skeletons, and Stone Knights)
    King

    There could be more listed, the smoke is mostly drug based and not magical and the listed creatures are who would most likely be immune to said trap. (It's also just to keep certain creatures/heroes from causing too much damage for their own side.)
    This is what the trap will look like if it's redone this way.

  5. #25
    WFTO Developer Dizzi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Confusion Trap

    turncoat trap?

  6. #26
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Confusion Trap

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomha View Post
    This is what the trap will look like if it's redone this way.
    Looks better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzi View Post
    turncoat trap?
    Confusion Trap sounds much better. No need for a reminder of DK2 now.
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  7. #27
    WFTO Developer Dizzi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Confusion Trap

    k well, it turns them neutral... does it force attack on ur team or it can attack any? ORRR.... does it prioritize on your team. why bother making units immune? it is only effecting the unit it triggers. what is the cool down on the trap?

  8. #28
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Confusion Trap

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzi View Post
    k well, it turns them neutral... does it force attack on ur team or it can attack any? ORRR.... does it prioritize on your team. why bother making units immune? it is only effecting the unit it triggers. what is the cool down on the trap?
    If you paid attention to any of the discussion, you'd know the answer to those questions. No I am not going to answer these questions for you, nor do I think anyone else should if you're not willing to read the posts yourself.
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  9. #29
    Imp Tomha's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Confusion Trap

    Hmm actually with the fact that it's a 1 shot I might have to rethink the appearance, rather weird seeing a floor with holes in it suddenly vanish. In this case I might change the appearance to be like a mystery present on the floor, at least then it'd make sense as to what happens to the trap.

  10. #30

    Default Re: The Confusion Trap

    What if the struck unit will attack the unit closest to him (paranoia?) till death/KO ?. Be it from the same keeper or another?
    Like lets say : fixed target = the one nearest.
    After either one of em dies/is knocked out, the spell will wear out.

    Counter the trap by sending party's of 2 units, one strong, one weak,so there will be less damage made.. (tactics).

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