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Thread: Few questions about KeeperFX

  
  1. #1

    Default Few questions about KeeperFX

    Hi, I'm new. I just downloaded/set up keeper FX today. played through a few levels and now have some questions. i don't know if some of these have already been answered. I looked around for a while and couldn't find any answers so i thought i should try asking directly, for those kind enough (and have the time) to answer.


    1. why does the map seem kind of "washed out"? especially the gold tiles, they look very muddy brown instead of green on the map. Or is it just me? any fix?

    2. Why does spider + bile demon + mistress = hero horny? is this intended? if so, why? (i was so scared when it happened at lvl 9! i had nothing except a couple flies and a sorceror.)

    3. I notice that the rooms and walls have less light sources then original DK. torches on walls (both mud and fortified) seem less frequent. Is this a known difference?

    4. What's up with the water sound effect? mine sounds completely broken (plays the first split second and replays over and over, very annoying)

    5. Does KeeperFX include the so called updated AI? I haven't played enough to make sure but it seems like the same as the original.

    6. mouse (cursor) movement seems extremely sluggish compared to original. Any fix? (i read a couple threads about it but they're more actual bugs then slow-ness)

    7. How do you use the commands in the readme file? where to enter it? sorry if this seems like a noob question...

    8. how does the training partner value work? saw it in the new formatted data files and was curious.

    um... that's all for now... phew. thanks in advance!

    *EDIT*
    oh yeah, i am also curious about the strength cap on creatures. It takes a lvl 10 knight with 80 base strength to break a steel door in 6 hits, but that's the same number of hits for Horny and Avatar who both have much higher strength. I want to know if the damage dealt by physical attacks are somehow capped. Would a knight and a horny do the same amount of damage to other creatures as well?
    Last edited by Yang Liu; September 9th, 2011 at 04:21.

  2. #2
    KeeperFX Author mefistotelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few questions about KeeperFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu View Post
    1. why does the map seem kind of "washed out"? especially the gold tiles, they look very muddy brown instead of green on the map. Or is it just me? any fix?
    It's the same as in original DK. If it isn't, you can always proove I'm wrong, by posting comparison screenshots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu View Post
    2. Why does spider + bile demon + mistress = hero horny? is this intended? if so, why? (i was so scared when it happened at lvl 9! i had nothing except a couple flies and a sorceror.)
    It's ment to be just another way to get horny, if only you're able to turn him to your side (so you also need prison and torture chamber). But it could also have other functions - you could try to do the sacrifice when under attack by enemy keeper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu View Post
    3. I notice that the rooms and walls have less light sources then original DK. torches on walls (both mud and fortified) seem less frequent. Is this a known difference?
    I don't think they're really less frequent; but I made unlit areas a bit darker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu View Post
    4. What's up with the water sound effect? mine sounds completely broken (plays the first split second and replays over and over, very annoying)
    Yeah, that's not working correctly. No fix for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu View Post
    5. Does KeeperFX include the so called updated AI? I haven't played enough to make sure but it seems like the same as the original.
    KeeperFX is based on original DK and doesn't include some of fixes made in DD. But the AI isn't also working exactly like in DK, various routines are a bit tweaked.

    Will leave other questions for later (or for others to answer).

  3. #3

    Default Re: Few questions about KeeperFX

    Thanks for the timely reply!

    Map has visibly different color tune for me. I think it might just be me.

    Also, found bugs related to the armageddon spell: when it activates (initial timer finish), your creatures summoned to the dungeon heart do not stay there (mistresses will simply tele to torture room and speedy monsters won't be there for the fight). After everything finishes, the armageddon spell disappears (turns back into question mark but can be researched again).

    This happened to me on Woodly rhyme and a custom map which name i do not know (chinese map, name is weird). Could use some more testing but just thought i might report this anyway.

    Oh yeah and i saw your thread about requesting a vampire generation test. It seems to work fine for me in many different levels, and the only thing that was a little off was sometimes it required 11 corpses for the first vampire of the graveyard(yes i counted. yes i checked if every corpse was in place)

    my version is .40 FYI.

    Also, could someone explain if the "breaking doors" mechanism has changed? sometimes, creatures with Word of Power spell can unlock a locked enemy door if there was an enemy right behind it?

    and kudos to the changes to boulder trap. it was too OP before

    oooooooo another way to get horny.... icwhatyoudidthar
    Last edited by Yang Liu; September 10th, 2011 at 08:17.

  4. #4
    KeeperFX Author mefistotelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few questions about KeeperFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu View Post
    6. mouse (cursor) movement seems extremely sluggish compared to original. Any fix? (i read a couple threads about it but they're more actual bugs then slow-ness)
    The cursor speed in latest nightly build is scaled with resolution, try that, Also, there's an option for it in keeperfx.cfg.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu View Post
    7. How do you use the commands in the readme file? where to enter it? sorry if this seems like a noob question...
    Create shortcut to keeperfx.exe and edit its properties. You could seach google for "entering command line parameters".

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu View Post
    8. how does the training partner value work? saw it in the new formatted data files and was curious.
    It's a chance of selecting training with another creature, instead of training with the wooden poles. It doesn't change the training speed or anything, only the creature "fights" with another creature instead of trainning machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu View Post
    i am also curious about the strength cap on creatures.
    Yes, damage is capped. Many parameters can't exceed 255, but even those which can, are always somehow limited. Can't remember details now.

  5. #5
    Dragon DragonsLover's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few questions about KeeperFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu
    2. Why does spider + bile demon + mistress = hero horny? is this intended? if so, why? (i was so scared when it happened at lvl 9! i had nothing except a couple flies and a sorceror.)
    This sacrifice has been disabled in my unofficial patch, but maybe the sacrifices still require some discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu
    oh yeah, i am also curious about the strength cap on creatures.
    Quote Originally Posted by mefistotelis
    Yes, damage is capped. Many parameters can't exceed 255, but even those which can, are always somehow limited. Can't remember details now.
    Strength was capped to 255 in the original Dungeon Keeper, meaning that whatever the value above 255, it wasn't the true strength of the creature shown in the creature's query panel. It's been fixed now.
    Dexterity also worked badly. If the dexterity was higher than 255, it wrapped back to 0. A dexterity of 257 = 1, a dexterity of 258 = 2, 259 = 3, and so on up to 512. This has also been fixed. Of course, Defence has also been changed since they are both involved into melee combat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu
    Also, found bugs related to the armageddon spell: when it activates (initial timer finish), your creatures summoned to the dungeon heart do not stay there (mistresses will simply tele to torture room and speedy monsters won't be there for the fight). After everything finishes, the armageddon spell disappears (turns back into question mark but can be researched again).
    Yup, that clearly seems to be a bug. My suggestion would be that creatures should dance around the heart like in the case of the Hold Audience spell until the counter reaches zero. But you know, if you don't want your creatures to get away from the heart, cast a CTA spell on your heart and cast Hold Audience once the countdown reaches 0.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu
    Oh yeah and i saw your thread about requesting a vampire generation test. It seems to work fine for me in many different levels, and the only thing that was a little off was sometimes it required 11 corpses for the first vampire of the graveyard(yes i counted. yes i checked if every corpse was in place)
    My guess is that your Graveyard's efficiency wasn't maxed out. I guess the efficiency of the Graveyard alters the amount of corpses needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu
    Also, could someone explain if the "breaking doors" mechanism has changed? sometimes, creatures with Word of Power spell can unlock a locked enemy door if there was an enemy right behind it?
    Actually, there are two bugs with WOP creature spell. First, it doesn't cause any damage to a door. Second, it causes doors to unlock, which shouldn't happen even though it existed even in the original game.
    I like dragons! They're the center of my life! I'll never forget them...



  6. #6

    Default Re: Few questions about KeeperFX

    Thank you both DL and Mefisto, for your replies.

    Also, can you go into a little more detail about the creature stats? so STR is now capped at 512 instead of 256? and defence and dexterity works fine? what about their cap? I know Armor being 1-200 from the description in the data files.

    I am also curious about the cap of health. I remember playing this custom level where a lvl 10 knight required 12 lvl10 mistresses and 10 lvl10 dragons to continuously bombard him for MINUTES before he went down. he seems to have at least 5 times as much health as the original Avatar.

    Also, i don't remember there being the WOP spell bug with locked doors in the original DK. At least not the version i played (a chinese version i got in 97. i thought it was weird how bullfrog included pictures of their staff and other stuff in the CD lol, maybe that was a collector's edition). I am fairly certain of this because of my hundreds of hours of gameplay, and the fact that i modified Vampires attack preference to melee (teehee) and always dropped them to break enemy doors, and it never happened like in FX.

    Also, i like a lot of the changes you made (or are giving the option for us to change to by means of patches), DL. Coincidentally, I also thought Dragons needs more damage output so i gave it a melee attack at lvl8. I think some people will consider Vampires to be too strong if they are given Melee attack preference, but come on, they cost so much money and time to train and in the end they're just cowardly little casters that have even worse damage output than a monk? I think they need to be more ferocious lol.

    Oh yeah, can you also shed some light on the new boulder trap compared to before? like how they interact with monster health/armor etc?

  7. #7
    Dragon DragonsLover's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few questions about KeeperFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu
    Also, can you go into a little more detail about the creature stats? so STR is now capped at 512 instead of 256? and defence and dexterity works fine? what about their cap? I know Armor being 1-200 from the description in the data files.
    No, there's simply NO caps now in KeeperFX. A creature with a Strength of 1000 will now deal 1000 points of damage (unless mefisto says the opposite).
    For Defence and Dexterity, they're capped to 255, but in my unofficial patch, these values never go higher than that.
    As for Armor, I didn't really test that. The value is somewhat a percentage. I don't know if it's hundred based or 255 based.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu
    I am also curious about the cap of health. I remember playing this custom level where a lvl 10 knight required 12 lvl10 mistresses and 10 lvl10 dragons to continuously bombard him for MINUTES before he went down. he seems to have at least 5 times as much health as the original Avatar.
    If it's a custom level, there's a great chance the knight's health has been tweaked using the SET_CREATURE_HEALTH script command.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu
    Also, i don't remember there being the WOP spell bug with locked doors in the original DK. At least not the version i played (a chinese version i got in 97. i thought it was weird how bullfrog included pictures of their staff and other stuff in the CD lol, maybe that was a collector's edition). I am fairly certain of this because of my hundreds of hours of gameplay, and the fact that i modified Vampires attack preference to melee (teehee) and always dropped them to break enemy doors, and it never happened like in FX.
    Maybe, I may be wrong.
    Pictures of staff are included into the Gold edition and maybe the original one as well. They're included inside the Goodies folder on the CD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu
    Also, i like a lot of the changes you made (or are giving the option for us to change to by means of patches), DL. Coincidentally, I also thought Dragons needs more damage output so i gave it a melee attack at lvl8. I think some people will consider Vampires to be too strong if they are given Melee attack preference, but come on, they cost so much money and time to train and in the end they're just cowardly little casters that have even worse damage output than a monk? I think they need to be more ferocious lol.
    Well... Dragons are already very deadly. They're meant to have a high resistance since they're low for dealing damage in melee. Their WOP and Meteor spells are correcting that. Dragons don't have Melee in my patch anymore.
    Vampires aren't meant to be an offensive unit but more a defensive unit. Their ranged attack preference allows them to tough more longer than if they use their claws. Vampires are already very ferocious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Liu
    Oh yeah, can you also shed some light on the new boulder trap compared to before? like how they interact with monster health/armor etc?
    The boulder traps remains the same. However, creatures are now set to cause a different amount of damage to them when they roll over them. Creatures have been arranged into 5 different groups : small, medium, big, very big and invulnerable. In all circumstances, a boulder can't kill more than 8 creatures. It's generally a lower number.
    I like dragons! They're the center of my life! I'll never forget them...



  8. #8
    KeeperFX Author mefistotelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few questions about KeeperFX

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsLover View Post
    No, there's simply NO caps now in KeeperFX. A creature with a Strength of 1000 will now deal 1000 points of damage (unless mefisto says the opposite)
    The limit is 2^15-1 = 32767.

    Code:
    /**
     * Computes damage of an attack, taking luck and creature level into account.
     */
    long compute_creature_attack_damage(long base_param,long luck,unsigned short crlevel)
    {
      long max_param;
      if (base_param < -60000)
        base_param = -60000;
      if (base_param > 60000)
        base_param = 60000;
      if (crlevel >= CREATURE_MAX_LEVEL)
        crlevel = CREATURE_MAX_LEVEL-1;
      max_param = base_param + (CREATURE_DAMAGE_INCREASE_ON_EXP*base_param*(long)crlevel)/100;
      if (luck > 0)
      {
        if (ACTION_RANDOM(101) < luck)
          max_param *= 2;
      }
      return saturate_set_signed(max_param, 16); // Restrict to 16 signed bits (15 unsigned)
    }
    Every level increases damage by CREATURE_DAMAGE_INCREASE_ON_EXP/100 = 20%.
    Luck is a percentage chance for dealing double damage.

  9. #9
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few questions about KeeperFX

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsLover View Post
    As for Armor, I didn't really test that. The value is somewhat a percentage. I don't know if it's hundred based or 255 based.
    From what I remember, the damage a Unit absorbs is their Armor / 2.5.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

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