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  1. #1

    Default Ratman



    Im new to the dev team. I just got taken on as the animator for the game. I only just came across the project so i know any ideas and suggestions I have at this point are on the late side. But I do have an idea and I would love to see it fully implemented.

    I also am told that its an idea that has been suggested before though I cant find it.

    Anyhow. I wont list stats and things as its a little pretentious.

    I think a rat-man would fit the game very well. Its subterrainian. Its dark, its cunning, it has all manner of poisons to use on its victims. its also very unique in terms of the game.

    Though most of you will be familiar with warhammer's skaven, I was thinking in terms of abilities it would be a little more like twitch from league legends. as depicted below.



    I think a crossbow slinging rat-man would be really great, shooting his deadly array of poisons from his crossbow, which could come in many forms such as a damage over time shot, an instant burst of damage, and maybe even a poison cloud to blind and confuse enemies (effectively a stun). The possibilities are quite endless. I was although thinking of a better name, such as Packrat

    As for how he would be placed, that is for you guys to decide, though I feel (and i brace for the controvesy) it would be a much better option to the ice archer. The name sounds cooler and isnt an extension of what already exists as a hero. Its more unique and adds more of a dimension to the game. It fits more with the fantasy style of the dungeon series. As stated before, where do you find rats? Underground!, in tunnels etc. There is nothing like this in the game already and it fits so well. I think it would be folly to leave him out.

    Heres some more images to get you into the mood of the cruel, dungeon sneaking, malicious, conniving, poisonous ratling.



    Thanks for reading.

  2. #2
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ratman

    Quote Originally Posted by Impy View Post
    I also am told that its an idea that has been suggested before though I cant find it.
    There is the Giant Rat and Rat King. Neither of which are very interesting at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Impy View Post
    Anyhow. I wont list stats and things as its a little pretentious.
    I wouldn't call them that, in fact, any suggestion without stats/proper format makes it look very unimpressive as information is typically mixed around and incomplete. There's also a stickied thread with "READ FIRST" in the title, it is called Suggestion Rules / Formats.

    These kinds of things are practically required for a suggestion. Unless the Suggestion Unit is a Neutral with a very interesting concept, it is highly unlikely for it to be implimented without some proper statistical information about it first. Neutrals aside, Units aren't really implimented because they sound cool and interesting. They need to fit certain unique Unit Roles, which are decided upon by their stats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Impy View Post
    As for how he would be placed, that is for you guys to decide, though I feel (and i brace for the controvesy) it would be a much better option to the ice archer. The name sounds cooler and isnt an extension of what already exists as a hero.
    The name of a Unit really has no value statistically. That doesn't make the Ratman better than the Ice Archer. (Also, I think Ratman actually sounds lamer than Ice Archer, even though Ice Archer is a placeholder name as far as I'm concerned)

    Quote Originally Posted by Impy View Post
    Its more unique and adds more of a dimension to the game. It fits more with the fantasy style of the dungeon series. As stated before, where do you find rats? Underground!, in tunnels etc. There is nothing like this in the game already and it fits so well. I think it would be folly to leave him out.
    It's a rat. That isn't very unique. Also, how do you know it adds more dimension to the game compared to the Ice Archer if we have no information on how it actually functions in battle or the dungeon?

    If you really want to try and have your Ratman compete with my Ice Archer, then I suggest you take a look at the thread I linked you to so you can at least fix up your post to contain more useful information about how the Ratman will actually function. Otherwise, the Ratman won't have much of a chance to be honest. I can't see it getting accepted in its current state. (Personally though, I'd advise you change the whole concept of a Ratman to something that is more interesting)
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  3. #3
    Fly PumpkinKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ratman

    Welcome to the forum!
    Now, the idea is ok, but all you have are some pretty pictures at the moment. I can appreciate your concern forsounding prententious, but honestly, a suggestion without stats is kind of useless. What you need to do is read the [Read First] thread, it has all the suggestion templates. Also, try to give it a unique roll and trait. E.g. Unique trait is that he spreads plague where he walks, reducing movement speed of enemies on the tile.
    I am not the best at thinking of things like this, but you just have to be creative. Also, don't try to make your suggestion replace somebody else's, and don't compete with MGR, you are not going to win, he's been doing this for a while.
    Aside from that, good luck!
    Dam, Rex beat me to it!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Ratman

    OH, sorry. I didnt mean to offend anybody. I had read somewhere else that I was supposed to justify replacing another character. my mistake. This could also work alongside the ice archer if that is an option. (by the way, would 'water elemental' or just simply 'elemental' work as another option for a name for him?)

    Anyway as for the original post I just wanted to probe an open-minded response to a creative process. I did read the rules but like I stated, I would have preferred to throw in an idea Im personally passionate about and hope for some positive and constructive feedback to how they feel a character like this could work without giving too many specifics. I was hoping people would generate ideas and such. This is my way of saying I have a concept but lets share the idea? But if a full stat sheet is needed before any discussion will begin, then I apologise and I'll do it correctly, but please know that I am not close minded or precious over any of these ideas.

    Before I start with my stats I want to share a brief history into why I am personally so enthusiastic about this concept.

    It all starts when i was young. i read a book titled "Redwall". it is a story about a monastery of mice that is attacked by a horde of rats led by one named Cluny the Scourge. What are recognised as mere animals seem to be depicted as humanoid as they wear clothing, etc. Immediately the idea of this vile and evil rat appealed to me. Its a common theme that has held through many story structures such as the story of Dick Wittington. What makes this concept so appealing requires a lot of delving into but my later interest came about when i discovered the game of Warhammer. One army being the Skaven which is an entire army of these subterranean humanoid rats, and has proven to be quite popular. I could continue to explain the mentaility of them but If you dont know them i highly recommend looking into them. Novels that i have read involving them are just as infectious as the diseases they spread. Ratmen are also prominent in Dungeons and Dragons and the Ultima games series but while the stereotype is perhaps not as widely known as the orc or the dragon is still remains as a distinct dungeon dwelling fantasy icon that would have suited Dungeon Keeper perfectly, and will fit nicely into War for the Overworld too.

    Thanks for reading. Here goes:

    Ratman (name is work in progress) (What is your Creature?) A humanoid rat

    Stats:

    Health: Low hes a rat so he is quite squishy, but incredibly nimble and dextrous.

    Attack: (AKA Strength, moderate to high. Though this will primarily be a ranged creature he should be quite strong in melee through use of either razor sharp claws or a needle sharp shiv. perhaps both.

    Armour: Low, he will be ranged so he wont be taking a huge amount of damage.

    Accuracy: (AKA Dexterity, High. The rats cunning and quick wit is rivaled only by his sharp senses and keen sight in the darkness.

    Agility: (AKA Defense, Very High. The rat is agile and quick. He scurries about as his enemies try to squish him.

    Speed: Very High. The rat is just as quick at moving and as he is dodging. he knows his way well through the network of tunnels. Attack speed is fast in melee, though with crossbow he is restricted by his reload speed.

    Luck: Moderate to high. half of being the sneaky rat is being in the right place at the right time.

    Recovery Rate: Low to medium. The rat doesnt like taking damage and would prefer to stay out of a scrap for as long as possible to heal his wounds

    Intelligence: Moderate. The rat is sneaky and cunning, hes intelligent but reading books may be just a little beyond him.

    Construction: Low, I think the rat would prefer to avoid this subject altogether. he slinks back into the shadows.

    Training Rate: High, the rat knows his weapons well, his survival depends on it. He will be one of the 1st to leave the training room satisfied.

    Training Cost: (Im not familiar with the scales but I would say a low to moderate ammount.)

    Wage: (Like above I am not familiar with the scales but this would be moderate) the rat is fearful but obedient he will need a fair ammount of gold if he is to be sent out to fight though.

    Gender: Male



    Skills:

    Level 1: Razor Shiv
    Simple dagger attack
    Level 2: Crossbow Bolt
    High fire rate. simple moderate damage spike.
    Level 4: Diseased Bolt
    Medium Fire rate.
    Deals a small to medium amount of damage over time. Have a very long duration. and be spread to any hero or creature nearby (including your own units?)
    level 6: Spot trap
    The rats keen senses allow him to sense nearby traps, for the duration any nearby enemy traps are visible to him.
    Level 8: Poison cloud
    The rat fires out a large gaseous cloud of poison from his crossbow, enveloping all enemies within a radius of the target. The targets suffer small amounts of damage but are blinded and are unable to move for the duration (or wander aimlesslly if game allows). it can be used to help him scurry away!
    Level 10:Infiltrate
    The rat will move around unseen for a short duration, he lurks in the shadows. His 1st attack will deal double damage but will reveal him. triple damage from melee attack.



    Information: Conceptually the ratman is cunning, cowardly, deadly, and disgusting. if fleeing is included in the game then he is very likely to flee. he loves to use poisonous diseases to kill or subdue his enemies. he is also very sneaky and cunning and is able to slip into the shadows unnoticed. He makes a great scout, and fights better in packs of other ratmen. Hes a subterranean creature. hes happiest underground. ratmen are equipped with a dagger and a crossbow that can fire all manner of diseased bolts to cause pestilence among the enemy.



    Behavior in Dungeon:

    When Idle, the ratman is mostly likely to be found sleeping, but when not sleeping will be exploring (similar to flies) but will autonimously flee if he enters combat alone. He is also likely to be found at a guard post. The ratman will soon grow disinterested in the temple and will not work in the workshop. If placed in a training room he will happily stay there until he is done.



    Battle Style:

    The ratman is purely for ranged damage dealing purposes although he has a few other nifty tricks and will happily use his melee attack. I would like to include a slight bonus to his damage when there is 4 or more other nearby ratmen, since ratmen prefer to stick together in their packs. This bonus will stack with all the other ratmen. They also do not flee if there is more than one ratman nearby. He will always flee if he is on his own.


    Jobs:
    Mostly training and guarding. The ratman likes to sleep a lot and will avoid actual work if he can. can also be found scavenging.


    Obtainable By:
    Ratmen will come from a portal. He can also be summoned from a temple using a warlock and a hellhound.


    Hates:
    The ratman hates Tunnellers and Dwarves and are hated back by these. and has a strong disliking for Giants (due to a bad experience with one sitting down).


    Loves:
    The ratman prefers to be in the company of other ratmen but will find Orcs, Trolls, Bile Demons, Hellhounds (because of pissing all the time) and Thieves acceptable. He likes to be among the filthy and the conniving.


    Anger reaction:
    Its hard to make the ratman angry as he will always rise above it (so long as he has a bed to go to) and scuttle away.


    Lair:
    a miniature haystack?


    Appearance:
    See above images. something along those lines. A humanoid formed rat.


    How Introduced:
    early on probably.


    Attracted by:
    He is attracted by lairs and guardposts. Having Bile Demons will also increase the chance. The disgusting smell is so alluring to the ratman.


    Entrance Effect:
    Disease cloud with flies buzzing around perhaps.


    Torture:
    Swings him around by the tail. Or gets a bath in soapy water.

    Audio:

    Rat-like chittering is the obvious choice for the sounds made by this creature





    Anyway, hope that this is deemed a little more acceptable. As for why i feel the ratman is unique conceptually, we have no mammalian animal based humanoid and of all of the possibilities one of the serious contenders for this role, being an underground dweller and common fantasy icon is the ratman.

  5. #5
    Bile Demon natchoguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ratman

    I'm going to tell you this; MGR is going to be unimpressed with the moves you came up with. Scale them down (change) before he chews your head off.

  6. #6
    Fly PumpkinKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ratman

    Also, you don't need to right a whole line of text just to state one stat. Makes the whole thing seem very unorganized. As for abilities, try to list details,(Cooldowns, damage, effect duration) otherwise, they are somewhat useless. Not to mention that the abilities already seem a bit overpowered, like Natcho said. Thats all I can say, you should try reading other suggestions for examples of what it should look like. Rex will give you the business soon enough, hopefully, he will help you.
    Last edited by PumpkinKing; October 10th, 2011 at 03:31.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Ratman

    The thing is, not very good with working out stats and things, nor do I really take a lot of pride in working them out. I am an animator/artist. This is a concept I really love and I feel fits the game within its concept only, but what I really need is some help making him a balanced and good for the game within how he works. If when you finally get to read this, Metal Gear Rex could you perhaps give me some pointers into how i could flesh this out, and what I could change? perhaps you could even come up with things yourself so I can get back to bringing the game to life knowing that this is at least being considered.

    Thanks

  8. #8
    Bile Demon natchoguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ratman

    Then just ask someone to do it for you. I'm busy and not up for it. Anyone willing to give the lad a hand?

  9. #9
    Fly PumpkinKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ratman

    I could try to, idk how well it would go. Send me a PM of what kind of role you want the unit to fill, along with abilities. I will try to help you fix it.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Ratman

    Well I really appreciate it. I was really hoping to brainstorm some ideas around this character. Isnt that what has happend with most of these characters? I dont know what makes a balanced creature in terms of the game, I think conceptually and thematically, im an artist.

    But as I was saying, I really appreciate any help you can offer Pumpkinking. And in terms of abilities you can be as creative as you liek as far as I am concerned.

    if you can choose whatever you think would suit my creature I an always pass on my suggestions and thoughts though I care little for that kind of thing as long as in the end i get to see something akin to the theme of a character described above running around the dungeon. Furthermore i did spend a lot of time coming up with the above stats, so if you could use as much or as little of it as you care to.

    To recap as to what i want to see as the theme of the character:

    if you do some reasearch into clan eshin of the skaven youll find out the sort of thing I am going for. Heres a video from the warhammer online game:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN3lUv1XvuM

    heres another video to give a bit more of an idea of the character traits:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAXD3zIgcMo

    Here is a video of some skaven in motion taken from the blood bowl game. though I cerainly dont want them all dressed in football gear it may give some more insight:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGZmK...eature=related

    Overall I want a dark assassin theme layered on a dirty, diseased, cowardly but murderous humanoid rat.

    As for abilities I was hoping for something more along these lines:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suVBQDzKZrc

    Twitch is a crossbow wielding rat humanoid. Though His looks and feel of the character is not what i want to go for I thought it would be a little more interesting to have him with a crossbow. You may decide that daggers is the way to go but with so many other melee creatures it works easily well to have the variety. You may decide, like i have that he could be equally capable in melee making him a bit more diverse.

    i think Disease, poison and decay is a good idea to work with, but ive really no specifics other that what i listed above, so please feel at liberty to come up with some ideas.

    In general other characteristics would include things that would be expected of a rat. I hope fear and fleeing is something included into the game as this character would make a great character to suffer from fleeing (as perhaps its main weakness).

    Also I love the idea of him being pack based creature. Some sort of combat bonus if the creature is near other ratmen while in combat.

    If i have any other ideas ill post them here. If you have any questions please ask, but i think that should be enough to give you a general idea.

    Thanks for taking this on.

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