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Thread: SOPA

  
  1. #11
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by Searingflame2 View Post
    The main reason I'm into the whole 'douche' and 'turd' perspective is because neither of the two major parties have what I perceive to be progressive social policies (gay marriage and the like). In fact, they're a tad regressive - what with refugees getting it harder than ever before. Don't get me wrong, Australia's horrific population density is a PERFECTLY GOOD REASON TO REJECT REFUGEES. Except for when you use logic.

    The only party that has social policies I agree with are the Greens - but their economic ideals aren't viable, and would reduce Australia's ability to compete in the global market, which sucks. I can be socially satisfied, or economically satisfied, but not both at the same time - not without some very delicate balance of power in Government which, even if I personally got to choose exactly who got in power, probably wouldn't represent me anyway.

    But I'm still young. I don't know exactly what I want. I know that I loathe partisan politics, but also that trustee/delegate politics results in all of no legislation getting through. Maybe I'm on board with a good friend of mine who believes anarchy is the best course. I don't know what I want - but I do know it ain't what is on offer.
    I mostly see a choice preference issue in your example, rather than an actual problem with the government. If one politician doesn't like gays and you like gays, choose the one who does. We all are equal, and that's why the votes split.
    I was more thinking of an actual problems inside, like corruption, power spread vertical, imperfect markets and poverty. In your case it is more "I don't like this guy for % and %", but looks like the fact is that the actual impact on your country is minimal trough those candidates. Of course, I may be totally wrong, because I hardly know anything about the political situation in Australia.
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  2. #12

    Default Re: SOPA

    I'd rather live in the Netherlands in all honesty, but I can't. In the Netherlands (at least as far as I've been told), they have virtually almost no laws about their internet. But I can't claim I'm 100% right on that.

  3. #13
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: SOPA

    Fuck, wrote a long comment to Xan, and fucking firefox logged me off, and I have lost the post. Now THAT's retarded. Gimme a sec to recollect my thoughts.

    ---------- Post added at 01:06 ---------- Previous post was at 00:39 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xan View Post
    No, they are not the same as me and my neighbors, and that is the problem. I'm not sure how it works in other countries, but in the US, you need lots of money to run for major political offices. As I said before, most career politicians have never really had other jobs, which leads to a disconnect with society. They spend all their time among one class of said society, and not enough time rubbing shoulders with the rest of us. They take on the values and attitudes of the minority they associate with most frequently, and over the decades of their various political jobs, become quite different from most Americans.

    Then when it comes to actually voting for somebody like President, we only have so many options. Our two political parties put together potentials, and we the people can only vote for someone who is running. Sure, anybody could run, but without support from one of the two major parties, you're only dreaming. And the people supported by those two parties? Always career politicos. And why is it impossible for any other person to get elected? The two-party system is too ingrained in our society. The media basically ignores other candidates.

    Speaking of the media, once candidates are chosen, its very hard to know what is true and what isn't true about them. Rumors "make good news", and so do half-truths, lies, and occasionally, the real truth.

    For America at least, you are naive if you think you know everything about a candidate, and naive if you think the voting process operates the same way it used to, the way our Founding Fathers envisioned. That said, I cannot help but admit a majority of Americans do not put forth the effort to at least try and sort through the rubbish- many just vote for their party's candidate without question.
    It is true, most of them never work outside of their "profession". And you should take their job as a profession. I will give you a simple example.

    There are company a and company b. They produce widgets. Company a hires a new person. It asks the person to present a CV, and a cover letter. When the person is accepted to an interview, the company a interviews him thoroughly about his experience, his previous employers etc. Finally, the company a decides not to take this employee, because he lacks knowledge on basic widget manufacturing concepts. The person goes to company b, and provides same cover letter and CV. The company b employers reads the documents, thinks they are awesome, and takes the worker.

    Some time passes, company a does great, company b does not. People at company b are always complaining about how terrible company b is. Why?
    You, as an elector, are the employer of the candidate. His speeches and his offerings and claims are his Cover Letter and CV. If you listen to what the politician says, and do the decision, you are a company b employer. This is the long answer to your "media" part.

    In order to make a good vote, you should know a lot about the politician. What are his previous achievements? What programs did he participate in? Were they successful? Were they meaningful? Why are they meaningful?
    You do not want to know "everything" about the candidate, to know enough about whether you want him or not. You certainly do not want to know details like with whom he slept 20 years ago (let's call it counter CV). Judge people by their actions, not their smile.
    In order to judge effectively, you should have minimal understanding of Micro/Macro economy, political and development economy, social programs, and political stability on the global arena.

    Absolute majority of people on this planet do not think. "2% of people think. 3% think that they think. 95% would rather die, than start thinking" - Einstein. I personally believe, that people should not vote until they are at least 25. People under 25 have almost no knowledge about what is going on on the planet, and why it goes that way.

    about 5000 years ago, a village elder was selected by the Wise. Ordinary men (hunters, craftsmen) were usually not allowed to vote, same went for youngsters and women. I see deep wisdom in this.

    You are very right about the part that most Americans do not give a shit. We may expand on this claim, and generalize: "95% of people on the planet of all countries and nations do not give a fuck on what is going on in their country as long as they have bubble gum to chew and television to watch." And believe me, our governments are working hard on making you ignorant. Ignorant people are easily controllable. The are like Pavlov's dogs, are driven by simple stimuli, and will gladly react to any claim. Look at Europe, Australia and US, and look at the East and Africa. One of the reasons why West does better than the East is because we have separation of church and state. Of course, there are countless other fundamental errors that keep them poor, but that's another story. Now, I am quite tolerant to any religion, although I am an atheist, but I understand that trust in God makes some people feel better. Well, good for them, but don't bring religion in my house. When religious law overpowers the jurisdiction, you get endless problems. Same goes for education. Enlightened, educated people stop judging by the smile, and try to do some research. Suddenly, you realize, that possibly, a former coach is not the best person to lead the culture ministry (example from my country). However, The coach had great public speaking skills, and got his place. My country has lost millions on his inadequate decisions as a result.
    It is a cyclical process: People do not give as shit -> politicians exploit it -> people do not give a shit even more, because they are even more conformist now -> not the way our Founding Fathers envisioned, again again.

    I will repeat what I've said before. Start with yourself. Research. Vote. If you do not participate and do not vote, or do it in the conformist manner, do not complain about your country. You deserve it that way then. If you are not satisfied, work hard to change the situation.



    ---------- Post added at 01:18 ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Richardf269 View Post
    I'd rather live in the Netherlands in all honesty, but I can't. In the Netherlands (at least as far as I've been told), they have virtually almost no laws about their internet. But I can't claim I'm 100% right on that.
    Do you really judge the country by the internet laws? Srsly? Omg.
    Last edited by Hapuga; November 22nd, 2011 at 23:25.
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  4. #14

    Default Re: SOPA

    No, I don't. I'm just saying it is a place I'd choose over the States. I looked up online what the countries have for internet speed. Netherlands was one of the higher end areas. The U.S. was near the bottom, only 5 or so were under the U.S.

    What I mean by "internet access" is what the companies have for speed (meaning what availability they LET you have, or what deals they let you buy). 5gb access speed, etc. But if I were wanting to live in a country just based on their internet availability, Netherlands is a place I'd live.

    I don't like living in the States for a lot of good reasons. And I'm an American. I've lived in California all of my 28 years, and I still don't like living in the states (mainly because a lot of Americans are ignorant turds compared to a lot of other countries.)
    Last edited by Richardf269; November 23rd, 2011 at 01:31.

  5. #15
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: SOPA

    I've visited most of Europe, some countries like England, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Czech Republic, Latvia - many times. Plus, I've been to most of the Eastern block (Belarus, Ukraine, Russia).

    I can tell you with a good amount of certainty that they all are somewhat different. But they are all not ideal. I was very disappointed by England and France, due to thousands of migrants from middle East and Africa. There were moments when I thought that I am in an Arabic city, somewhere in Libya or Egypt. Eastern block is, on average, poorer and more chaotic. So dunno. This is my 4th month in US, there are some things that I really don't like about the country (cultural mostly, I don't like the food here, and the women... Nothing to compare with Eastern Europe), but there are many great things that I missed in my country.

    Trading something for something you will definitely lose something. Are you sure the opportunity cost is worth it?

    P.S. If you'd move to Europe, I'd suggest Austria or Denmark
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  6. #16
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    Default Re: SOPA

    Hapuga,

    You're pretty much right in regards to my preferences - there isn't anything fundamentally wrong with the government. Australia, of first world nations, has dealt with recent global financial issues very well. But your original suggestion was that each country deserves the government that it has. What's on offer isn't bad, but no party or candidate with a chance represents me. So unless my political views are somehow unique, there's other people out there who literally have no candidate that represents them. Do I, or others like me, deserve to have a government that doesn't represent us simply because we're unwilling to dedicate our lives to getting into the political forefront ourselves? Were the two major parties corrupt, would I deserve that simply because no matter what I did, my vote would flow down to one of the two of them eventually anyway?

    At the end of the day, a country has the government it does due to the tyranny of the majority (in my case not so bad, but less OK in the US). The 95% who refuse to think will always be able to outvote the 2% that do. And the media will do its best to make sure that 95% never starts thinking.
    Last edited by Searingflame2; November 23rd, 2011 at 08:46.
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  7. #17
    WFTO - Lead Producer kyle's Avatar
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    Default Re: SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by Hapuga View Post
    I've visited most of Europe, some countries like England, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Czech Republic, Latvia - many times. Plus, I've been to most of the Eastern block (Belarus, Ukraine, Russia).

    I can tell you with a good amount of certainty that they all are somewhat different. But they are all not ideal. I was very disappointed by England and France, due to thousands of migrants from middle East and Africa. There were moments when I thought that I am in an Arabic city, somewhere in Libya or Egypt. Eastern block is, on average, poorer and more chaotic. So dunno. This is my 4th month in US, there are some things that I really don't like about the country (cultural mostly, I don't like the food here, and the women... Nothing to compare with Eastern Europe), but there are many great things that I missed in my country.

    Trading something for something you will definitely lose something. Are you sure the opportunity cost is worth it?

    P.S. If you'd move to Europe, I'd suggest Austria or Denmark
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  8. #18
    Imp Xan's Avatar
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    Default Re: SOPA

    Hapuga,
    The women in the states differ drastically from area to area. Where ever you are, there are other types in other areas. Its one reason why the States are unique- it is a huge stinking country. Russia might be big, but large portions are sparsely populated, and so far as I know, there has been less immigration and thus less diversity in Russia. Australia too, and Canada as well. The US is rare in its size and distribution of population- lots on west coast, lots of east coast, and of course a few scattered in the middle. China is also like that, as is Brazil, but both have less cultural diversity (to my knowledge- I could be wrong about Brazil).

    The Einstein quote is probably accurate. My biggest beef with the system is it didn't used to be like this, and it shouldn't be now. America used to stand for something because Americans used to be more involved in politics, politicos used to be closer to 'average' Americans, and the value system in general used to exist. I look at our Constitution and what America was once known for, and both simply don't exist anymore (sure, the Constitution exists, but we ignore it these days). And there is nothing I can do about it.

    Feelings of entitlement, of everybody owes me everything, that I should use loopholes and cheat the system any way I can, have replaced the basic honesty and hard working mentality of America. Laws are designed to spell out everything, because otherwise it will be taken advantage of. Whenever anything goes wrong, its somebody else's fault. Its all about what you can get away with, not what is actually right. While this isn't true of all Americans, it is becoming increasingly prevalent, even in minor ways. Like taxes. If I can slap a company name on my car, I can call it a company car- even if the only reason I did it was to get a tax break on the car purchase. Is it illegal? Nope. Dishonest? Heck yes.

    I'm not even that old, but I already feel like I'm watching a great nation die. I suppose the world should look down on Americans these days; it is the masses that are making it happen, after all. I see the politicians as being the more prominent, and in some ways, worst representation of our country, but you are right that we voted them in. Problem is, the "conservatives" who don't want to trample the Constitution, who focus on the core values that once made this country great, are seen as backwards, old-fashioned, or intolerant.

    How do you convince an entire society to reverse the trend of decades, when they don't want to be convinced? How do you get politicians in office who represent your views, when you are in a decided minority? How do you deal with the world, who label you as just another American, when you don't even agree with most of what the world in general dislikes about Americans? If you have answers, let me know. Otherwise, I'll continue voting for the lesser of the two evils, voicing my minority opinion whenever people won't stone me, and trying to stay honest in a society that is slowly losing the will to enforce its own ideals.
    "O be wise; what can I say more?"

  9. #19
    Elite Dragon Mothrayas's Avatar
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    Default Re: SOPA

    Bump for relevance.

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  10. #20
    Spider ARMofORION's Avatar
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    Default Re: SOPA

    Where power and money meet is always the same: Corruption.
    You can give a man power, and he'll want all of it. You can give a man money, and he'll want all of it. Those two combined defines the problem with politicians.
    There can be no "By the people, for the people" if we put the wealthy in charge.
    Heck, just look back in US history. That was our greatest leaders. Not now.

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