Heavanarius Creature Limit (Opinions?)

[Mothrayas]

There have been (radical) thoughts flying in my head that might be somewhat controversial, at least at this point/stage. I bring out the most pressing one out.

Why do we have levels in a RPG? Yes, it does serves an indicator of strength/experience of a Creature/Hero but I think a descriptions should be more logical and says more than a number from a roleplay stand of view. For example, Drell in the Crystalbarrow realm is an ancient dragon, pointing out his status as a formidable threat. Searingflame was also kind enough to add in the roleplay posts involving Drell various descriptions that further enhance his status. That’s also what a RPG is about, novel writing.

‘’Oh look, that dragon is level 10 elite boss. OK I quit this realm!’’

I do understand with having no levels, and a bit more freedom regarding abilities, it opens up the possibility for somewhat more godmodding. On the other hand, I think levels bog down the activity by halting the progress because of the threats that Creatures can face at that point in. But I think if we all go not over-the-top with this it can be rather manageable. This is something I want to put to the test in the current defunct Test Realms forums.

What do you think of this?

I dunno, Levels worked pretty much fine imo. Otherwise there isn't really any 'development' to be had for your character at all, which doesn't really work imo. I think it's good like how it is now, maybe have creatures generally level up faster or further so that we can unlock more of their potential anyway. Obviously Drell is a special case, but he isn't like a playable unit, so he could play by different rules.

To come back to the point of this thread, what limit would you like to see then? 6 to 8 sounds fair enough to me if people can handle that many Creatures. But I do not want to see one-man-armies RP’ing with and by all themselves.

I wasn't thinking of a radical change, just something like 3 units per realm and 5-6 units total. That shouldn't be too bad with the one-man-armying.

[MeinCookie]

Also levels help you gauge the strength of enemies. Maybe don't give levels to Bosses? Just mark their level as 'Boss' or 'Unknown'.

[Metal Gear Rex]

There have been (radical) thoughts flying in my head that might be somewhat controversial, at least at this point/stage. I bring out the most pressing one out.

Why do we have levels in a RPG? Yes, it does serves an indicator of strength/experience of a Creature/Hero but I think a descriptions should be more logical and says more than a number from a roleplay stand of view. For example, Drell in the Crystalbarrow realm is an ancient dragon, pointing out his status as a formidable threat. Searingflame was also kind enough to add in the roleplay posts involving Drell various descriptions that further enhance his status. That’s also what a RPG is about, novel writing.

‘’Oh look, that dragon is level 10 elite boss. OK I quit this realm!’’

I do understand with having no levels, and a bit more freedom regarding abilities, it opens up the possibility for somewhat more godmodding. On the other hand, I think levels bog down the activity by halting the progress because of the threats that Creatures can face at that point in. But I think if we all go not over-the-top with this it can be rather manageable. This is something I want to put to the test in the current defunct Test Realms forums.

What do you think of this?

Unit Levels and Class seem fairly important to me. Without them, there is no way for a Player to properly judge his character compared to his opponent. Therefore, even if a Player means well, they may accidentally godmod either in their favor or against them. Though in my experience as Northland Leader, it seems as if people desire to generally have battles that are hard fought and their characters barely come out as heavily battle worn victors. This may also be due to the fact that people don't want to break the rules and unintentionally godmod by obtaining an easy kill against an easy opponent.

To come back to the point of this thread, what limit would you like to see then? 6 to 8 sounds fair enough to me if people can handle that many Creatures. But I do not want to see one-man-armies RP’ing with and by all themselves.

A total max of 8 Units with a sub limit of 2 per realm is fine to me. Or something like what Mothrayas suggested is also fine. If we have more Units per realm, it allows for us to spare more characters for realms that are more active due to more active Keepers. Having a higher max set of Units helps the more active RPers to contribute more. If I had 8 Units back when I was younger and had a lot of time to spare, I could have single handedly kept the entire RPG alive I bet.

As for one man armies, well I think if we give more Creatures for active RPers to use, we shouldn't see any of that. Unless we get a real god modder in here, but he'd probably just get removed from the RPG anyways.

[Mothrayas]

Also levels help you gauge the strength of enemies. Maybe don't give levels to Bosses? Just mark their level as 'Boss' or 'Unknown'.

Yeah, I'm thinking the same pretty much.

[Metal Gear Rex]

Yeah, I'm thinking the same pretty much.

Or break the game and give them a level beyond 10.

That's also something to think about. Should we stick with 10 levels to go with the traditional Dungeon Keeper? Or maybe we could increase it to 20 or something. At some point not far from now, all our characters will be maxed out at Level 10 when we transfer from realm to realm. There won't be anything for them to do and they'd have an easy time killing lesser Creatures. The realm may become laughably easy. It'd be like abusing the Transfer Creature special in DK1, except with an army.

[MeinCookie]

Transfer costs would limit far before Level 10 is reached, unless you don't move them about... and that is just boring. Also Keepers/Realm Masters should take that into account and scale enemies to the average abilities of their creatures.

[Duke Ragereaver]

Well, regarding marking enemies. Quite frankly that was something I also wanted to bring up in increasing the level cap.

Something in the lines of:

• Level 1 to 10 is normal, standard. The trainingsroom level cap can be raised for this.
• Beyond level 10 is the elite status and start all over again from level 1. So level 1 elite is, so to speak, the level 11 equivalent. The level 10 elite status should be the maximum level the players can reach at this point. Elite status cannot be lost when transferring.
• Then you have boss statuses, which is the equivalence of 21-30.
• Elite bosses, 31-40.
• Unknown or All-Powerful, 41-9001.

Hmmmm, I think I almost can start a MMORPG with this when I think about it!

[Mothrayas]

Or break the game and give them a level beyond 10.

Pretty much the same thing, except you're actually displaying an out of proportion number just so that you still have something to gauge from. IMO it seems worse than just not displaying a number.

That's also something to think about. Should we stick with 10 levels to go with the traditional Dungeon Keeper? Or maybe we could increase it to 20 or something.

And then what? We get everything to level 20, have godstrength and beat up the entire RPG to a bloody pulp using hax powers?

At some point not far from now, all our characters will be maxed out at Level 10 when we transfer from realm to realm.

Purely random, as well as unlikely assertion. I'll have you reminded that the highest level any player controlled creature has reached is 5. (I'm pretty sure nobody ever got to level 6, or even above that.) That is in an RPG which has lasted for over 2 years now. That's just halfway through reaching level 10, and that's even assuming that leveling up goes linear - especially at the later levels, I'd think more that the rate of gaining levels is logarithmic, so we'd be years away from reaching a level 10 creature - if not at least several months.

Saying it'll happen at some point "not far from now" is simply a ridiculous statement.

There won't be anything for them to do and they'd have an easy time killing lesser Creatures. The realm may become laughably easy. It'd be like abusing the Transfer Creature special in DK1, except with an army.

Well, of course the story would need to adapt to the level 10 creature army. What that means is, that we'd probably just get an army of level 10 units thrown at us. That'll leave enough to do.

[Metal Gear Rex]

Well, regarding marking enemies. Quite frankly that was something I also wanted to bring up in increasing the level cap.

Something in the lines of:

• Level 1 to 10 is normal, standard. The trainingsroom level cap can be raised for this.
• Beyond level 10 is the elite status and start all over again from level 1. So level 1 elite is, so to speak, the level 11 equivalent. The level 10 elite status should be the maximum level the players can reach at this point. Elite status cannot be lost when transferring.
• Then you have boss statuses, which is the equivalence of 21-30.
• Elite bosses, 31-40.
• Unknown or All-Powerful, 41-9001.

I like this idea.

Hmmmm, I think I almost can start a MMORPG with this when I think about it!

You might as well at this point. It'll help us finish the realms faster :P

[MeinCookie]

I do like the idea of becoming an 'Elite' past Level 10, because you get up to level 10, say you did do that, and move between realms twice and you've lost that.

1
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1E
2E
3E
...

It offers a way to get around that, and it rings with Elites in DK 2. Boss statuses seem fairly decent too.