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Thread: Vampire discussion thread

  
  1. #1
    Dungeon Keeper Duke Ragereaver's Avatar
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    Default Vampire discussion thread

    I've noted some commotion about the Vampire and want to bring it up for discussion. But instead of making a thread, as I've suggested, people went out to the chatbox and express their concerns. Anyway.... how would you like to see the Vampire on the technical side of the RPG? Feel free to suggest and discuss about it here. But keeping it brief and straight to the point is my preference.


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    Elite Dragon Mothrayas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vampire discussion thread

    Vampires should have at least 1 level penalty upon resurrection. Resurrection without penalty means that unless there's a monk nearby the vampire is completely and utterly expendable because he can't ever die, period. Might as well make him unkillable in the first place, if it makes no difference.

    A Level 1 Vampire can technically defeat a level 10 Knight. Deal 1% scratch damage, die and resurrect, deal 1% scratch damage, die and resurrect, repeat x98.

    Vampires without resurrection penalty are utterly exploitable, with no rule being violated.

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  3. #3
    Vampire MeinCookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vampire discussion thread

    I am in too minds. A level drop is a really harsh penalty for death as other creatures can survive near death pretty easily without consequences and skeletons are almost as invicible. At the same time it is rather exploitable elsewise, dragging other creatures into lava or the path of boulder traps safe in knowledge they can respawn.

    My Ideas
    • Reduce idea of a level drop to say... 0.5 of a level, if implemented. (Leveling is a long-haul thing, when handled correctly, and really isn't a light penalty.)
    • Explore other sorts of penalties for vampiric death, such as monetary, health on respawn or 'respawn timer'.
    • Ignore it, trust our fellow RPers to roleplay fairly and simply be careful to whom we issue Vampires.
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  4. #4
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vampire discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mothrayas View Post
    Vampires should have at least 1 level penalty upon resurrection. Resurrection without penalty means that unless there's a monk nearby the vampire is completely and utterly expendable because he can't ever die, period. Might as well make him unkillable in the first place, if it makes no difference.

    A Level 1 Vampire can technically defeat a level 10 Knight. Deal 1% scratch damage, die and resurrect, deal 1% scratch damage, die and resurrect, repeat x98.

    Vampires without resurrection penalty are utterly exploitable, with no rule being violated.
    I agree with this quite so!

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    I am in too minds. A level drop is a really harsh penalty for death as other creatures can survive near death pretty easily without consequences and skeletons are almost as invicible. At the same time it is rather exploitable elsewise, dragging other creatures into lava or the path of boulder traps safe in knowledge they can respawn.

    My Ideas
    • Reduce idea of a level drop to say... 0.5 of a level, if implemented. (Leveling is a long-haul thing, when handled correctly, and really isn't a light penalty.)
    • Explore other sorts of penalties for vampiric death, such as monetary, health on respawn or 'respawn timer'.
    • Ignore it, trust our fellow RPers to roleplay fairly and simply be careful to whom we issue Vampires.
    Well Vampires will be in the same situation as other Creatures when it comes to surviving near death. They're not going to die. The resurrecting idea just brings about new possibilities to what the Vampire and Roleplayer can do, but the penalty insures that there's a string attached so that they should use it sparingly and cannot spam it as they please. As for Skeletons, well, they're kind of different. I think the Black Knight worded it well enough when she said that they're easy to defeat but hard to kill. And I also honestly believe that any Creature is technically invincible unless the RPer wants to kill them off :P (That does create a funny scenario with the current Vampire though, what if the RPer wanted to get rid of him but couldn't because he was immortal? XD)

    * * *

    My Vote:
    How about combining MeinCookie's first two ideas and making it so that when a Vampire dies, they suffer a level drop of 0.5 and are brought to their Lair with 1-50% Health.

    A full Level Drop may be a bit too harsh in the later levels, especial Elite Levels, I agree. And dropping their Health down would help prevent the Vampire from easily gaining that experience back. But a Health Drop alone wouldn't be enough as Vampires are supposed to be support Units (in DK1 anyways) so they'd just sit in the back behind the other Units and not take damage.

    I also do not like the idea of having a Respawn Timer as that can be way too difficult to judge properly. It probably will come down to having to wait a certain number of posts, and that can be a pain in slower Realms. Waiting for 10 posts to occur in Northland, for example, is far easier than waiting for 10 (even 3) posts in Frozengard.

    One Other Suggestion:
    Something I thought about before I finished this post. How about making it so Heal has a half or null effect on Vampires? That would work well story wise because Heal is a very holy spell and Vampires are very unholy. (And get angry when in the Temple!) Could make some kind of combination of that and MeinCookie's first two ideas to balance out the Vampire's immortality. (Since I noticed you also got rid of the water penalty, something I'm not too fond of as most Vampires have Flight or Teleport to get around that)
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  5. #5
    Vampire MeinCookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vampire discussion thread

    Need water penalty D=

    Vampires can't be walking across water now, can they?
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  6. #6
    Elite Dragon Mothrayas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vampire discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Need water penalty D=

    Vampires can't be walking across water now, can they?
    I listed water as a weakness in my vampire's profile.

    Duke didn't.

    Although for Duke it doesn't seem it'd be relevant anytime soon anyway, since there's not exactly a whole lot of water to be found in Crystalbarrow.
    Last edited by Mothrayas; January 22nd, 2012 at 13:36.

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  7. #7
    Vampire MeinCookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vampire discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    My Vote:
    How about combining MeinCookie's first two ideas and making it so that when a Vampire dies, they suffer a level drop of 0.5 and are brought to their Lair with 1-50% Health.
    50% for the first death, 25% if they die again in quick succession?
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  8. #8
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vampire discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Need water penalty D=

    Vampires can't be walking across water now, can they?
    As I stated in my post, most Vampires have either Flight or Teleport which surpasses that. That makes the Water Penalty more like an early level penalty. It, as Moth mentioned, also depends on the Realm. I think the water penalty should be very optional considering that it doesn't have the same effect on all Vampires. It's a bit redundant too when the Vampire's natural abilities both involve Flight and Teleport, within the first four Levels too.

    The water penalty can be a way to balance other traits of an individual Vampire character. For example, what if the Vampire has the magical offense of a Fairy but he lacks Flight and Teleport meaning he isn't as mobile and also is vulnerable to water. That would be a fair trade.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    50% for the first death, 25% if they die again in quick succession?
    That causes the same problems as the Resurrect Timer. It is too difficult to judge properly. It'll come down to a number of posts in the end and that unfairly punishes slower Realms with less Creatures. Besides, who's honestly going to kill themselves twice and drop a whole level because of it?
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  9. #9
    Dungeon Keeper Duke Ragereaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vampire discussion thread

    I thank you all for the valued opinions. What I wanted to propose is the following:

    Code:
    - Possible water penalty?
    - Immortality kicks in at level 4
    - When killed with immortality, the Vampire respawns in the Lair with 1-10% health with no level penalty. The Vampire must regenerate to 75% health and above in order to be allowed to die again with immortality, or otherwise suffer a -1 level penalty.
    - The Dark Beyond ignores the immortality trait. 
    - Faries can kill Vampires too permanently (as holy beings)
    Last edited by Duke Ragereaver; January 26th, 2012 at 08:25.


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  10. #10
    Spider ARMofORION's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vampire discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke Ragereaver View Post
    I thank you all for the valued opinions. What I wanted to propose is the following:

    Code:
    - Possible water penalty?
    - Immortality kicks in at level 4
    - When killed with immortality, the Vampire respawns in the Lair with 1-10% health with no level penalty. The Vampire must regenerate to 75% health and above in order to be allowed to die again with immortality, or otherwise suffer a -1 level penalty.
    - The Dark Beyond ignores the immortality trait. 
    - Faries can kill Vampires too permanently (as holy beings)
    My opinion would be to remove the fairy permanently killing vamps, but change the immortality, because it is exploitable. -1/-.5 level reduction if killed by creatures and heros other than Monk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke Ragereaver View Post
    - When killed with immortality, the Vampire respawns in the Lair with 1-10% health with no level penalty. The Vampire must regenerate to 75% health and above in order to be allowed to die again with immortality, or otherwise suffer a -1 level penalty.
    This is the thing I see the most problem with. If Creature A (Vampire) fights Creature B (Bile Demon) and Creature B wins, then Creature A respawns at lair, Keeper then HEALS him to full health and tosses him back into battle, thus making Creature A more annoying than a Level 10 Priestess paired with a Level 10 Giant.

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