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Thread: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

  
  1. #111

    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    I didn't get any option to patch.

  2. #112
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTemplar View Post
    I didn't get any option to patch.
    The disk you have may not have a patch on it. Mine doesn't. I was only able to change versions by downloading different patches via Keeper Klan.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

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  3. #113
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    So here's a quick update.

    I finished playing through the campaign again and can confirm the new Wizard stats to be good to go, so that's that issue resolved. I also finished all necessary tweaks to the campaign to adapt to the Wizard's new usage. I fixed what I believe to be all of Level 9's issues, but that level is rather complicated so you never know. I'm not going to wait around with it though as I think it would be more efficient overall to have different people playing the map and reporting issues for me to fix than to try and do all that myself. I also got through Level 10 so there's that.

    I'm pretty much back where I was half a month ago in terms of what needs to be done next, minus the need to finish Level 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    • Finish Playtesting the updated Level 11b
    • Begin Playtesting the updated Level 11c
    • Finish Updating the Thread (I have the Unit section, which is easily the largest, near complete. Trap section is complete and Door is almost complete, mostly need Spells, Rooms, and new screenshots, not too difficult)
    • Prepare the Update Post that will Detail All Changes Since the Last Release
    I'll be playing through 11b and 11c today and maybe tomorrow if need be, so I should get both of those levels tested rather quickly. That leaves only thread related work to do, which shouldn't be that big of a deal. So long has nothing happens, I expect myself to be done by the end of this week.

    * * * * * * *

    Since I know I didn't give too much detail about the Wizard before, I'll go into detail about him now as a bit of a teaser.

    So, before, the Wizard functioned pretty similarly as to how he does in the released version. The only difference was I removed his Great Invulnerability spell at Level 9 and gave him Super Meteor at Level 10. I felt Great Invulnerability didn't do all that much given the Monk had the spell and made better use of it, at an earlier level even. The most the Wizard could do with it is make it so he was very difficult to kill himself. With Super Meteor, he had a way to still deal damage in the late game, when Meteor became less relevant. Super Meteor was previously the Fairy's personal spell, yes, but I swapped it out for a new spell, Chainfire. More detail on that in the actual update.

    So, the Wizard's Spell set looked like this. Level 1, Magic Missile. Level 5, Meteor. Level 10, Super Meteor. It was pretty simple. The Wizard had a lot of single target damage. The problem became the fact that, as mentioned before, he was simply outclassed. In the early game, there's the Elf and Monk, who have much stronger early game spells (Monk now has Fireball for reasons that will be explained later), if only due to the amount of burst they have. Even the Fairy's Hail is more useful with its crowd control. In the mid game, he obtains Arrow, which sort of equalizes him with the Wizard. However, more importantly, the mid game is where the Fairy comes along. She has Thunder, which is simply better than Meteor in most instances. Magic Missile is weak and irrelevant by this point, where as the Fairy's Hailstorm is not. Then when the Wizard finally obtains Super Meteor, the Fairy gets Chainfire not long after, which is by far the superior spell.

    So, this left the Wizard in a really bad spot. He's outclassed by everyone in the early game and outclassed by the Fairy during the entire game, pretty much. Magic Missile, as much as I like that spell, doesn't really suit the Wizard as it's a low recharge time spell. The Wizard can only work well with burst type spells, due to his slower casting time. That's exactly what I did with the new Wizard, I turned him into a more burst type support unit.

    With the new Wizard, I completely revised his spell set and gave him totally unique spells. At Level 1, he has Earth Blast. At Level 5, he has Ice Missile. At Level 10, he has Fire Storm. All of these spells, save for maybe Earth Blast, are very complicated. Even Earth Blast is somewhat complicated as far as early game spells work. These new spells also make the Wizard look like a sort of Elemental Lord, which is interesting in and of itself.

    Earth Blast is sort of like the Flame spell that the Horned Reaper has in the released version. It's a projectile spell that stuns. Earth Blast is both weaker and stronger than Flame. It has lower burst and lower DPS, making it directly weaker. However, it also has a lower recharge time, allowing for more frequent stunning. The latter makes it remain very useful as a support spell even in the late game. There's also a unique difference between Flame and Earth Blast, in that there's a small delay to Earth Blast's stun after it hits the target. This effects how well the spell combos with other units by allowing units to have an easier time to hit the stunned unit in most instances.

    Ice Missile is a sort of control / debuff type spell. Ice Missile has a 'pierce' effect, where it doesn't stop after it hits a unit. It keeps going and can continue to hit units past the first target, having an AoE effect in a straight line. Every target that is hit is frozen for a handful of seconds, but that's not the end of it. Each target hit will create a small radius around them where they and any nearby units will take damage. This stacks with every unit hit, allowing the spell to gain strength. So even though it's absolutely pitiful on a single target unlike the old Wizard's Meteor, it can be very dangerous on an enemy army, especially if they're bunched up together.

    Fire Storm looks like a normal Meteor spell, except it's not. Upon hitting an enemy unit, it summons a much stronger Hailstorm and also stuns the target. Shortly after stunning the target, it also summons a more burst type Inferno spell (compared to normal Creature spell). It deals massive AoE damage and can be especially effective on bigger targets who have a vulnerability to stunning, as the unit who is directly hit by the spell will take considerably more damage. One drawback to the spell is that, due to the Inferno, it also damages friendly units a bit and is also less effective against those who are immune to the spell. Salamanders are especially strong against high level Wizards as they have less of a stun time and ranged attacks to take down Wizards.

    All of these spells are very powerful, offering incredible burst. The first few moments against a Wizard can be the major deciding factor of a battle. Wizards complicate battles and are difficult to deal with. However, once these spells are dealt with, the Wizard becomes much less reliable as a support unit. Both of the Wizard's stronger spells have very long cooldowns, with Ice Missile being 30 seconds and Fire Storm being 50 seconds. So until those spells recharge, the Wizard offers sub-par support, providing an opening for enemy players to take advantage of. The best way to deal with a Wizard is to bait out his stronger spells or cancel them out with Thunderbolt if possible.

    These are the strengths and weaknesses of the new Wizard, but all in all, it's easy to see that he now is completely unique in how he functions compared to other support units.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

    The Awakening: GM Powers Activate!
    Tesonu is napping!

  4. #114

    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Well the new Wizard sounds very interessting, I can imagine him sitting behind his barricades being very hard to reach but still destroying your creatures especially when they're grouped up.

    For level 10, I played it, was going very well, I had fun playing it.

    And level 11 was very very funny to play, it's so much fun to play vs. the AI that can actually kill you, not like before. God damn Morgana went super ham in level 11a (I played all three) I had to choose if I kill Raksha or Morgana first. I thought killing Morgana first was a good idea, because she was attacking everyone and while she was busy I have no problem killing her but I was wrong. I didn't see that Raksha had three freaking Dark Angels and two of them were level 7 and 9... Oh boy. Even tho my strategy was a bit lame (I attacked them, when they were busy fighting someone else so I could easily sneak to their Dungeon Heart) I think it was still ok. God damn Inferno Traps and Spell was super annoying to play against, especially when the more squishy creatures were nearby.

  5. #115
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mannoroht View Post
    And level 11 was very very funny to play, it's so much fun to play vs. the AI that can actually kill you, not like before. God damn Morgana went super ham in level 11a (I played all three) I had to choose if I kill Raksha or Morgana first. I thought killing Morgana first was a good idea, because she was attacking everyone and while she was busy I have no problem killing her but I was wrong. I didn't see that Raksha had three freaking Dark Angels and two of them were level 7 and 9... Oh boy. Even tho my strategy was a bit lame (I attacked them, when they were busy fighting someone else so I could easily sneak to their Dungeon Heart) I think it was still ok. God damn Inferno Traps and Spell was super annoying to play against, especially when the more squishy creatures were nearby.
    Morgona doesn't attack, only counterattack. Usually Drako and Raksha bridge to her, sometimes even Kronos if you're not playing the A version and she's still alive by then.

    Inferno is what makes Raksha so dangerous. Even if you manage to outlevel and outnumber her, you can't relax. She's not like other Keepers where you can just steamroll her. A well placed Inferno spell can easily wipe you out.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

    The Awakening: GM Powers Activate!
    Tesonu is napping!

  6. #116

    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Morgona doesn't attack, only counterattack. Usually Drako and Raksha bridge to her, sometimes even Kronos if you're not playing the A version and she's still alive by then.

    Inferno is what makes Raksha so dangerous. Even if you manage to outlevel and outnumber her, you can't relax. She's not like other Keepers where you can just steamroll her. A well placed Inferno spell can easily wipe you out.
    Yeah thats what I noticed. I think level 11 is one of the levels you can play again and again, because almost everytime something different can happen.

    Btw I have one question: Are you doing the same to level 12-20 like you did with 1-11, like doing your own version of the campaign (because I'm having a lot of fun)

  7. #117
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mannoroht View Post
    Btw I have one question: Are you doing the same to level 12-20 like you did with 1-11, like doing your own version of the campaign (because I'm having a lot of fun)
    Well, yes. That's part of the whole patch. For one thing, the level balance revolves around the game balance, and with all the radical changes I bring, naturally the campaign must be tweaked to adapt. For another thing, the vanilla campaign is really really easy. The levels just offer no challenge, there is no pressure. They don't fully take advantage of DKII's mechanics, there's so much more potential to be had with these levels. Not to mention, redesigning the levels from near scratch gives me good practice at the art and also allows for the game to have a very fresh feel to it, rather than just playing the same old reasons.

    There are a lot of good reasons for me to revise the campaign the way I do, and pretty much no reason for me not to. No good reason, anywho.

    Edit:
    Btw, I'm getting through Level 11c now. Then it's all thread related work. I'd get it done sooner if DKII would stop bloody crashing.
    Last edited by Metal Gear Rex; March 18th, 2014 at 16:04.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

    The Awakening: GM Powers Activate!
    Tesonu is napping!

  8. #118

    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Yeah DKII is very strange but for some reason it works on my pc without doing anything or changing some settings, 1.3, 1.51 and 1.7 are working without any problems.

  9. #119
    Demon Spawn Keeper Decagon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrmcast View Post
    Jack-in-the-Box now kills/incapacitates one creature instantly with a recharge, rather than trying to blow up the dungeon heart.
    Yeah, and that creature will only ever be an Imp. The Jack-in-the-Box trap can only be triggered by Imps, from my experience of playing 1.7. Unless you can change that, I can't really see for any practical use of this trap. I'd rather invest in something more reliable such as a Lightning trap, or a row of Sentries.
    Last edited by Keeper Decagon; March 19th, 2014 at 09:42.
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  10. #120
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper Decagon View Post
    Yeah, and that creature will only ever be an Imp. The Jack-in-the-Box trap can only be triggered by Imps, from my experience of playing 1.7. Unless you can change that, I can't really see for any practical use of this trap.
    I was going to say the same thing when I got around to making a more official reply. Not only does it only trigger off Imps, but it only effects Imps, period. But another possibility also popped into my head. There's really no reason as to why it would only effect Imps, unless I missed something when I was looking at it in the editor. So it has to be something hardcoded in there. Is it possible that it's a 1.7 only quirk?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper Decagon View Post
    I'd rather invest in something more reliable such as a Lightning trap, or a row of Sentries.
    Or a Spike Trap, considering how abusable those seem to be, especially if comboed with some Keeper Lightning.

    Though this is getting too much into GIM for my preference, I'd prefer to move further discussion on it to its own appropriate thread.
    Last edited by Metal Gear Rex; March 19th, 2014 at 10:05.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

    The Awakening: GM Powers Activate!
    Tesonu is napping!

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