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Thread: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

  
  1. #201
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    So here's an idea I had to try and experiment with involving the mana resource:

    • Increase Max Mana from 200000 to 500000
    • Increase Max Mana Gain from 600 to either 999 or 1000 (not sure if 4 digits looks good on the gui)
    • Increase Mana Cost things to 1.75 to 2.0x their current amount (testing with 1.75x for now)
    • Increase Base Mana count from 30 to 50


    Basically, the idea is to further benefit expanding of dungeons with this larger potential mana gain, while also allowing more possibilities to "build up mana". Building up mana will take longer due to the higher cap, but also because it everything is more expensive so it takes more mana to have equal value to mana values before. Despite the increase in potential mana gain, mana will always be harder to replenish because the boost of like 50% mana gain doesn't equal the +75% of mana costs.

    This I think will make a stronger element of strategy in managing the mana resource, as saving up mana for a big encounter will allow for much more spell casting than before. On the flip side, being wasteful is more punishing because it takes longer to regenerate that mana.

    This also can create a better siege type situation and can be an advantage that an offensive player presses against a defensive player, since defensive players likely use up more mana due to traps. It also helps out AI Keepers in single player maps who have infinite mana because, while this change doesn't effect their mana resources, it does effect the player's in a longer and more drawn out battle.

    These changes I think also makes it less likely to float mana needlessly once you reach the cap as reaching the cap is much less likely.

    I'm slightly concerned about how this effects Imps, because it seems I can't actually up the mana drain of Imps since it seems to be hardcoded and I've never played with the mana cost of creating Imps so I don't know how this will impact that. There's also the situation where you drop Imps in the Dungeon Heart to return mana; I don't know how that is effected either.

    It will all require testing regardless, of course. I'll likely first test this concept in Level 6a, whenever that is finished.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

    The Awakening: GM Powers Activate!
    Tesonu is napping!

  2. #202

    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Good to see you got inspired from playing WftO.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    It helped me realize that my wife was not nearly as bad as I thought her to be.
    So WftO rekindled old love. A real accomplishment.
    Last edited by YourMaster; April 20th, 2015 at 00:13.

  3. #203
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    Good to see you got inspired from playing WftO.
    It helped me realize that my wife was not nearly as bad as I thought her to be.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

    The Awakening: GM Powers Activate!
    Tesonu is napping!

  4. #204
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    I did do a quick run with what I have of Level 6a and I do like the way the new mana system works.

    There are a few things that I realized are also effected a lot by the changes:

    • Traps are relatively more costly in the early game where the player doesn't have much for mana regeneration. I'm perfectly fine with how this works as traps are stronger earlier on because creatures are weaker and fewer in number.
    • It's a lot harder to try and abuse spells that can be cast anywhere like Thunderbolt or Crystal Field, as the effect of these spells on their own are minimum, and so it's mostly wasting mana, which could be a big deal.
    • The Torture Chamber is more difficult to use and there's some merit not to using it because mana is much less of an expendable resource.
    • Mana Vaults are more useful as it's harder to hit the mana regen cap.


    Overall I'm liking these effects a great deal.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

    The Awakening: GM Powers Activate!
    Tesonu is napping!

  5. #205

    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Nice, good that you're back. I've been enjoying your patch/es a lot and if I had money to throw around me I would have donated you already some of it :-P

  6. #206
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mannoroht View Post
    Nice, good that you're back. I've been enjoying your patch/es a lot and if I had money to throw around me I would have donated you already some of it :-P
    I have suddenly decided to quit because I cannot afford to work on the patch anymore.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

    The Awakening: GM Powers Activate!
    Tesonu is napping!

  7. #207
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    I have suddenly decided to quit because I cannot afford to work on the patch anymore.
    http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/
    http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/6659/c2warlocki.gif

  8. #208

    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    I pressed the button - dk2 is saved.

  9. #209
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Ah yes, the DKII shenanigans continue as pathfinding issues return for more!

    No matter where I direct the Dwarves that are meant to mine openings into the player's dungeon, they seem to always go through the first opening made and will even stop mining to do so. They will, as demonstrated through these test action points, go all the way around the dungeon while slowed down by water rather than mine a couple of blocks in front of them.





    I've had some problems in the past with Dwarf mining paths but those usually involve getting the Dwarves to find the next path. They tend to get lost because I design maps far more complicated / detailed than their AI was meant to be able to handle (I mean all of DK2's maps are extremely simple by sheer comparison), so even if it's a straight path, they can still get lost. Once lost, they'll essentially abandon their next point and proceed to mine around the edges of the entire realm.

    However, that problem is very different from this problem as it's usually solved by adding some more action points. This problem I have no idea how to resolve, if it can be resolved. I may have dealt with it in the past but I do not remember how to deal with it at all. In fact, I don't ever recall it being this obscure.





    That little dead end? That's a result of two pairs of Dwarves mining towards that center action point. When one reaches it, the other abandons it and goes all the way around instead of mining that one little earth block (reinforced later as seen in the shot) directly in front of it. That is seriously ridiculous.

    For comparison's sake, this is what Level 4's action points look like.





    That Dwarf from the north tends to get lost, sometimes getting lost depending on the way the player builds the dungeon. Hence, the action points are placed on very specific spots.

    Figuring out how to deal with this Dwarf issue is going to set me back a bit as unless it's resolved, the map is literally ruined. Not even joking. Just imagine how Level 4 would be if all the Heroes entered from only a single point. The whole point of the map would basically cease to exist and difficulty would be practically non-existent. So it's a pretty big problem.

    I may have to redesign the map from it's current form if there is no other alternative solution.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

    The Awakening: GM Powers Activate!
    Tesonu is napping!

  10. #210

    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    So to install this, is it enough to just download the 3.5 files, or do earlier "base" files need to be installed as well?

    Thinking I may have a go on the Kasbian Campaign when I have some time, just not sure if I want to play it with your 3.5 stuff or use it's earlier patch data by itself. Any suggestions?

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