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Thread: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

  
  1. #291
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    gimme back my thread
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

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  2. #292
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    So there is one thing that annoys me about editor, and that's how it saves the level globals.

    Correct me if Im wrong, but looks like the editor completely disregards the GlobalVariables when creating the Globals for a map. I tested it, and looks like that is correct. When you create a brand new map, all creature pools are 0, and most rooms are unavailable. So if you create a "vanilla" map with correct map Variables, you will spawn no creatures from the portal, have 4 rooms available, and all spells blocked.

    However when you generate the globals for the map, all spells, traps and rooms are available, and creatures have predefined pools (for example warlock is always 32, firefly is always 10, maiden is always 20). This makes me think that the editor has these values hardcoded inside the editor itself. That, or there is another piece of information that I am missing.

    Lastly, I cannot make the new creatures to spawn via globals.
    I made sure that the creature is in attractions.
    I made sure that the creature is in pools.

    No effect. The creature is a pristine copy of a goblin.

    I even removed the goblin whatsoever - still no effect. I am starting to fear the worst, that the ids are somehow hardcoded to the portal.


    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Hapuga; June 22nd, 2018 at 08:11.
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  3. #293
    OpenKeeper developer
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hapuga View Post
    Lastly, I cannot make the new creatures to spawn via globals.
    I made sure that the creature is in attractions.
    I made sure that the creature is in pools.
    Attractions are met? And the creature flag Available from Portal is set for this creature? I still doubt they are hard coded to the game. That would indeed be against their design and this is a simple thing. And if people were previously able to get even Knights etc come from the portal so...

  4. #294
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    I did some more tests where I could. I have a full 1.7 map and the Maiden still refuses to come through the portal. I even had a test run in 1.7 (I don't have access to 1.7 atm, I had Decagon do this part) to confirm a Maiden attract, then I tested it on 1.3 without opening it in the editor to ensure it remains "pure" and nothing. I am also concerned with the implications.

    It's not a total loss even if, I think. It's possible that creatures like the Imp, Dwarf, Lord of the Land, King Reginald, and any other units who can be attracted from the portal, but "shouldn't be", can have all their animation, texts, etc exchanged to "become" a new unit that is then attractable, while an unattractable copy takes their place. Although I'm not sure if the implications of that exactly, would this impact mana drain of Imps, or maybe "The King has entered your realm" textline whenever Reginald spawns? Would changing the Create Imp's create creature ID to match the new Imp screw up the Dungeon Heart's spawning of Imps? Unsure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Lastly, I did find a couple interesting things. I tried force attracting a Knight as a separate test and the Knight was able to come out of the portal perfectly fine. Normally in 1.3, all Heroes and the Horned Reaper get stuck at the bottom of the Portal and need to be picked up. This means that there's data in there to fix the attraction of those units so they come out of the portal normally, which would be a very nice quality of life change.
    This is also not true. Apparently, it's just the Knight, Stone Knight, Lord of the Land, and the three Princes who can leave portals without issues. I assume this is because they're all copies of each other, and eventually lead back to the Black Knight. Both the Knight and Stone Knight literally copy the Black Knight's entrance animation and have the BK skin in 1.3. I knew this but must have forgotten, the BK entrance animation resource was overridden with the 1.7 data so I didn't see it initially. So this is likely something in the executable, maybe?
    Last edited by Metal Gear Rex; June 22nd, 2018 at 14:20.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

    The Awakening: GM Powers Activate!
    Tesonu is napping!

  5. #295
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    So, everything is worse than I expected. Here's the full report:

    - You can shuffle around the ids like a deck of cards, that will be still recognized by the game correctly. At least on the surface level of my tests there were two limitations to this:
    ID 1 (imp)
    ID 46 (jack in the box unit)

    - You can replace any creature with any other creature (replacing imp will cause imps to not spawn from DH).
    - Shuffling around creatures causes a game crash after game ends (may be map-data related, may be hardcoded something related).
    - Number 46 is a magical number hardcoded in the executable. Any unit with ID > 46 will not be spawned by the portal.
    - Otherwise, creatures added after ID 46 will be seen by both game and editor correctly, but only as trigger-based, or pre-placed entities.
    http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/6659/c2warlocki.gif

  6. #296
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    I hate this game so much.

    I can still theoretically create 4 new units that can be attracted by the portal by exchanging the Skeleton, Vampire, Dwarf, and Lord of the Land's animation resources for something else and recreating those units in slots used by non-attractable units. 5 if I also exchange King Reginald but I'm pretty sure there's still that "The King has entered your realm" line that I don't want to lose or attach to another unit.

    Unfortunately I still don't have the means to do that but you know.
    Last edited by Metal Gear Rex; June 23rd, 2018 at 18:29.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

    The Awakening: GM Powers Activate!
    Tesonu is napping!

  7. #297
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Rex, you actually have a point. As I said, any id in the [1;46] range is game for the portal, therefore, if we "reserve" the possible slots for "by design" unattractable units, we may win quite a lot of slots actually. I will check today how the hero portal reacts if I move the hero creatures beyond 46 range. If the hero portal doesnt mind, we have all good creatures + skelly + vamp + horny as "free" slots.

  8. #298
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    does anyone have a copy of 1.51 and 1.61 exes of the game that I can borrow?

    Ideally if you have those 2 versions of the full game that you can share.
    http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/6659/c2warlocki.gif

  9. #299

    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hapuga View Post
    does anyone have a copy of 1.51 and 1.61 exes of the game that I can borrow?

    Ideally if you have those 2 versions of the full game that you can share.
    They are hosted here. Here's the link.

  10. #300
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch - DK2 with Better Balance (And Pie)

    All of those are dead.
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