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Thread: Spell Suggestions

  
  1. #41
    Mapmaker Skarok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions

    Alright I got one too, as I mentioned in the chatbox. I call it Promethean Vision because that's how the thing that was my inspiration is called. Of course for The RP we should look for another name,. mabye Vision or something.

    It allows you to see through walls and lets you see the vague shape of living things behind it. To implant it without having it being OP it would need to follow certain rules, like that if there are two blocks of wall in the way one can't see through it or that you can only see creatures two tiles behind the wall. This spell would suit scouts fine, especially when they're in enemy territory and are trying to avoid making contact with the enemy.
    Last edited by Skarok; September 8th, 2012 at 16:45.
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  2. #42
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions

    It may be early Monday in my time, but for my time, it's late Sunday. So as far as I'm concerned, I'm not late at all.

    I've added Turncoat and reconsidered Thunderbolt. I don't think I need the support of another to add this one in. There really should be another normal Lightning spell, and this will be the only strong spell that can pierce Rebound since both Lightning, Drain, nor Shine are focused much on damage. So I added this one as well. Now for responses to Spell Suggestions...

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    I'm making a list of spell suggestions which could potentially provide a more global coverage for creatures; holy creatures have holy spells, undead and unholy creatures have an arsenal, magical creatures gain access to a great many more types of spells as a given - including advanced magic and creatures such as Spiders, Demon Spawns, Salamanders, Hellhounds, Flies, Mistresses and Tentacles all have access to various elemental spellsets.

    As such, these spells are intended to be simple and basic spells available to the average melee creatures such as Goblins, Orcs, Trolls, Guards, Knights, Black Knights, Giants, Bile Demons, Beetles and such who under general circumstances don't really have a reason to claim elemental or more advanced magics (without some sort of backstory justification).
    The above creatures aren't limited to just those spells and I don't think a more basic combat unit needs much explanation for possessing some magic. The only real times when creatures need explanations for such abilities are cases such as when a Vampire ends up with Holy magic or a non-magical creature ends up with a significantly larger spell set than what should be expected for that creature.

    As I mentioned in the chat, such melee creatures don't really need a number of spells/abilities for them to utilize. They possess techniques and various fighting styles with their weapons, and that's what they use. They have more customization and flexibility compared to any sort of ranged creature, which is one reason why ranged creatures should have numerous abilities to make up for that. They revolve around two different things. As is, I think melee creatures have a fine selection of abilities to pick from.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Deadweight -
    Renders caster immune to all throwback or wind effects in abilties by increasing their weight, but also slows their movement speed for its duration. This is rather useful mainly for light-medium melee fighters on the defensive, offering a defense against wind-based attacks which was previously only afforded to the heaviest creatures. This spell could work particularly well in tandem with Protect, temporarily giving a lesser creature the combat profile of a better armoured foe. It could also be coupled with Impetus to deliver a shocking surpise blow, though with limited range.
    I went over this one in the chat with MeinCookie, but I'll go over my reasoning as to why I'm against it again for everyone else. There's a few additional reasons I didn't mention in the chat both due to me simply holding back but also me not realizing them at the time.

    First off, resisting knockback effects and Wind immunity are traits unique to the Bile Demon and Giant, so this does take that way from them but it isn't too big of a deal.

    The main thing is, however, I find it to have very limited usefulness. Wind has proven to so far be quite rare and limited and even without that, the ability can't be spammed. Even if a creature has it, situations of when they'll use it are even rarer due to the fact that it effects allies as well. It'll bring a lot of chaos and sometimes more harm than good. (To the side of the creature who casts it) More common instances would be knockback effects from explosions (Grenade or Meteor) but to be honest, it is probably better to be knocked back from an explosion than to stand close by and burn.

    When it is cast, there's a drop in movement speed, which will hinder the fighter's combat capabilities significantly, even if it just gives them stiff legs. They'll need their legs to push forward an attack, step back and dodge, etc. This especially applies if the creature is meant to be fast, such as a Goblin, as they rely on such movement speed. Heavier creatures who don't care for the loss in movement speed don't need the ability to begin with.

    In the chat, I mentioned that the loss in proper movement speed will lead to situations where the enemy can easily get behind the weighted unit and attack them from behind. This doesn't so much applies to cramped rooms but does in open areas like what most of RCI is made up of. MeinCookie said that there would always be a chokepoint, in which I responded to not be true. But here is something I also didn't realize at the time. If Wind or any knockback effect occurs while a Unit has Deadweight active, they will stay put while all of their other comrades get knocked away. This will then make them vulnerable as there is no one else who can stop the enemy from going around the weighted unit to attack them. This is only untrue in very specific circumstances. On the other hand, if there are a lot more melee units with Deadweight but not a lot on the enemy side, then when enemy forces get blown away by Wind as well as ally support units, the ally support units will find themselves vulnerable when they recover.

    Lastly, while it can be used to make a lighter creature stand better against a heavier one, it doesn't do too great a job at it. The heavier one will still be stronger and the lighter one will have less opportunity to dodge. If this weren't the case, we'd run into the issue of lighter units surpassing heavier ones as they can imitate heavy units whenever the situation proves it to be useful and stick to their natural lighter selves when it doesn't. Heavy units, on the other hand, will be stuck as heavy units regardless.

    All in all, the situations of when it can be used are limited and even when it can be used, it often will lead to some potentially bad situations which limits its usefulness even more.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Impetus - [Level 7+]
    Gives the caster a single powerful burst of momentum in any direction. It can be used for evasion or aggression but, ultimately, it is far more effective the lighter a creature is. A Bile Demon attempting to use the ability would have trouble getting half-a-tile of movement out of it whilst a Tunneler may be able to 'spring' five tiles or more.
    This ability thus has interesting intracies, and can be put to different uses depending on the class in question; heavier creatures can use it to turn their bulk into a weapon at close range, lighter creatures can use it to evade their enemies or cross small stretches of lava whilst flying creatures could potentially become far more erratic.
    This idea I don't really like as it is but I think the concept has potential if it receives certain adjustments. One of the main problems I have with it is the potential usage of the ability. It can be used to knock over enemies and break chokepoints easily, which will be annoying to deal with on the enemy side but also lead to too many possibilities on the unit side. Additionally, it only needs a little bit of stretching to transform it into a sort of super punch or kick to knock enemies back or out (Yes, use it to easily but realistically knock an enemy out). While it may sound amusing, it admittedly breaks some of the Dungeon Keeper feel and doesn't really fit in with everything else.

    My idea would be to turn it into a Haste Spell. Haste would work as an alteration of Speed. It would offer a much greater buff (Say 300% speed) but at the cost of it having a very short effect time (Think like 4-8 seconds). This can be used to initiate charges or a furious wave of attacks, but due to it only increasing the movement speed by a multiplyer it doesn't quite lead to the same possibilities as the above idea I don't think. The fastest creatures will be the ligher ones and the ligher ones can't do too much to knock heavy chokepoint units down, especially because they'll have some sort of warning unless its a surprise attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Consume - [High Power]
    Absorbs all magic attacks used against a target for a brief span of time and converts it into a healing. The potency of this depends on the magnitude and frequency of spells absorbed, but as a general rule it is quite inefficent though in exceptional circumstances it can add up quite respectably.
    Basically it's like an upgraded/alternative form of Rebound? Either way, I don't like it. The problem I see here is simply trying to properly calculate effect time and values as every moment matters with this spell. Additionally... is this supposed to be given to a melee creature? I can't really see this fitting a melee creature at all without a proper explanation, which voids the whole point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skarok View Post
    Alright I got one too, as I mentioned in the chatbox. I call it Promethean Vision because that's how the thing that was my inspiration is called. Of course for The RP we should look for another name,. mabye Vision or something.
    X-Ray Vision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skarok View Post
    It allows you to see through walls and lets you see the vague shape of living things behind it. To implant it without having it being OP it would need to follow certain rules, like that if there are two blocks of wall in the way one can't see through it or that you can only see creatures two tiles behind the wall. This spell would suit scouts fine, especially when they're in enemy territory and are trying to avoid making contact with the enemy.
    There is one very very very very VERY big flaw with this spell. That being, that it can be used to see through people's clothes. This will get us into tons of legal issues if, even accidental, it is used on someone underaged.

    But seriously, I can't really see this being too useful. Whether a scout has it or not doesn't matter as the same land will be explored. Exploration has, at least so far from my understanding of it, been fixed. If there's enemy terrain to be explored and a unit has this ability, they will use it to see past the guards. If they lack this ability, they will find a way to sneak past the Guards or there will be less Guards to sneak past. It's a more scripted ability and I think it is unnecessary. Not only that, but it could lead to too many possibilities to explore an area that should not be explored yet.


    * * * * *
    New Suggestions:
    Haste:
    As mentioned before, it will function as an alternative Speed by boosting Movement Speed to ~300% but for a very brief period of time, only a handful of seconds.

    Purify:
    Level 6+. It cures all negative statuses for either the castor or an ally but not both. It's been mentioned in several forms but not this one. :P

    Earthquake:
    Stuns all neighboring units, both ally and enemy, in addition to damaging traps and doors. In Water and Lava, it causes a significant splash.
    Earthquake -> Stuns All Neighboring Units, Damages Traps and Doors, Causes a Splash in Water or Lava

    Blood Rage:
    It could use a better name. This drains the unit's Health significantly while active but gives them an equal boost in power. The only problem I see here is properly calculating the effects but as long as they remain equal it should be alright. Even so, I'm not 100% sure about this one. Thoughts?


    * * * * *
    Spell List Order:
    As a general suggestion, I was thinking about reorganizing the order of the Spell List. I was thinking of organizing them by their various traits rather than by alphabetical order. For example, linking the Ice magic spells together and the buff magic type spells together, etc. This I think will be far more useful for people to create spell sets for their creatures.
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  3. #43
    Vampire MeinCookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions

    HASTE
    I like it alot. Impetus had flaws, and this fits much better.

    PURIFY
    Everyone has wanted something along these lines, so yeah, this is a shoe in.

    EARTHQUAKE
    lol, a creature equivalent of the tremor spell was actually one I thought of but discounted. Logically the caster would be right at the epicentre and thus worst effected. If it doesn't effect them - it would seem a bit unbalanced. On the other hand I didn't consider lava or traps at that time. It would be useful with a flying creature, a creature that can walk in lava or else in the middle of a trap room.

    BLOOD RAGE
    Frenzy? I like it, though it might be a bit OP on Bile Demons - drain half their health and wack a goblin 50 meters?
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  4. #44
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    HASTE
    I like it alot. Impetus had flaws, and this fits much better.
    Good.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    PURIFY
    Everyone has wanted something along these lines, so yeah, this is a shoe in.
    Good.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    EARTHQUAKE
    lol, a creature equivalent of the tremor spell was actually one I thought of but discounted. Logically the caster would be right at the epicentre and thus worst effected. If it doesn't effect them - it would seem a bit unbalanced. On the other hand I didn't consider lava or traps at that time. It would be useful with a flying creature, a creature that can walk in lava or else in the middle of a trap room.
    I don't think it could be used by a Flying creature. Either way, it effects both enemies and allies and can also have negative effects when used on your own terrain, so yeah. While this does make it very useful when you're fighting alone, there's other disadvantages to being alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    BLOOD RAGE
    Frenzy? I like it, though it might be a bit OP on Bile Demons - drain half their health and wack a goblin 50 meters?
    I'd have to work out the details a bit more. By the end of the post when I got to these suggestions, I was pretty tired. Either way, I'm not sure if it will be a percentage increase in power. But if it is, then the drop in Health will also be by a percentage. The worst I can see this being given to is the Giant. If anything, I can easily judge which unit this is more or less useful on and therefore Units who benefit greatly from this will obtain overall less abilities. Example being the Giant trading Speed monster for this as he can't have both.

    Oh yes, forgot to mention, I'll give it two weeks before I judge whether these should be in or not.
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  5. #45
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions

    In regards to changing the Spell List order, I updated the Creature Spells and Abilities to include both lists for the sake of comparison. I could just keep both lists up to fit everyone's preference.
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  6. #46
    Vampire MeinCookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions

    Two weeks later - well, four weeks actually. Purify, Haste, Earthquake? Have you had any thoughts on Blood Rage?

    Another thing occured to me; Do Haste and Purify come in Self and Other format?
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  7. #47
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Two weeks later - well, four weeks actually. Purify, Haste, Earthquake? Have you had any thoughts on Blood Rage?
    Interestingly enough, despite forgetting this weekend, I actually made mental notes last weekend and the weekend before that to do it on Sunday. But alas, my Sundays were taken up by other work and I didn't get the best opportunity/it slipped my mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeinCookie View Post
    Another thing occured to me; Do Haste and Purify come in Self and Other format?
    Haste would exist only in Self format. Purify would work as both Self or Other, but only effecting one creature at a time.
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  8. #48
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions

    This is a reminder post. I will make another late Sunday/Early Monday and then come to a decision Monday night.

    Currently, these are the spells I will be accepting unless someone has something against it to say:

    Haste:
    This will function as an alternative Speed by boosting Movement Speed to ~300% but for a very brief period of time, only a handful of seconds. It can't last beyond the same post it's been cast. This works only on the user, there will be no "Other" or "Group" variations of the spell except for NPC usage.

    Purify:
    Level 6+. It cures all negative statuses. There's no "Self" or "Other" variation as its all in one. It works for either the castor or an ally but not both.

    * * * * *

    I'd like to also hear some more votes on this one. I'm interested in the spell and I think it has potential, but I feel as if I'm alone in these thoughts so I need some reassurance. As for the Blood Rage, I've reconsidered. I don't think that should be accepted.

    Earthquake:
    Stuns all neighboring units, both ally and enemy, but does not harm them. Heavier units may be more resistant to the spell. Additionally, it also does minor damage to traps and doors. In Water and Lava, it causes a significant splash. It only effects ground-bound units. (Unless in water/lava and a flying unit is low enough to get hit by the splash)

    * * * * *

    I would at least like to use Earthquake as a first test for a new idea I had involving spell suggestions. I had always thought of giving NPCs access to more custom spells, though I think this should be reserved for very special characters. Nevertheless, I do believe we could use this concept for testing the more doubtful/questionable spells that still hold potential.

    Simply put, Earthquake will become an NPC only spell where we can test its function "safely" without giving it to our own existing creatures.
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  9. #49
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions

    Damn it...

    ...Shut up, everybody.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    I will make another late Sunday/Early Monday and then come to a decision Monday night.
    It's still late Sunday/Early Monday. Technically, I'm not late.

    Anyways, I've added Haste and Purify to the list, and added Haste Other, Haste Group, and Earthquake to the NPC Spell List.
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  10. #50
    Vampire MeinCookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spell Suggestions

    Summon Imp
    A creature version of the 'Create Imp' spell which summons a personal servant imp who probably isn't useful in combat, but would undoubtedly be more versatile than a Lesser Skeleton and wouldn't necessarily require a High Power tag either.

    Summon Lesser Ghost
    A creature summoning spell similar to 'Summon Lesser Skeleton', in turn based of Skeleton Army, which summons a weak version of the Ghost - able to fly through doors and such things.

    Gust
    A one-shot drastic course adjustment for projectiles, altering their trajectory significantly. Can probably also be used in an futile attempt to distract enemies - because a light breeze ever harmed anyone.

    Redirect
    A spell which proforms an opposite function to Rebound. It redirects projectiles liable to hit nearby allies towards the caster.




    Buttress
    A Keeper spell that creates a piece of fortified wall on either claimed ground or dirt/gold adjacent to claimed ground. Possibly also useable on water or lava tiles. This could be used strategically, to repair damage done by tunnelers/imps either allied or enemy and to get rid of faults in dungeon design (not looking at annoying gold seams at the southern entrance to Kuroki's dungeon at all).
    Last edited by MeinCookie; October 31st, 2012 at 13:07.
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