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Thread: Suggestion for Deeper Dungeons

  
  1. #11
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Deeper Dungeons

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsLover View Post
    However, I'd like to read what MGR (which doesn't really agree), mefisto and others think about that.
    Well I kind of already stated one reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Not really no. You could play them in order but you don't have to. I know I personally didn't. Putting them in a campaign will just force everyone to play it in order, regardless of whether or not they want to.
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsLover View Post
    I'd be curious to get the opinion from others, but so far, yeah, I think it could be a good thing to make these levels as a campaign. We would just have to make sure the levels are arranged from the easiest to Belial.
    Anyways, for additional reasoning, the DD maps are made to be sort of challenge maps. They were (from what I know) intended to be fairly equal in difficulty for the most part, but the difficulty would vary from Player to Player simply due to how the individual playing style. For both of these reasons, it is probably better to leave the maps as they are where a Player can play them in any order they want.

    It wouldn't be that hard to make it play like a campaign. They could even use the same map if they wanted as there's plenty of "unused" areas. However, they didn't, and probably for the reason that it wasn't a true campaign in that sense, just an expansion pack of levels.

    Anyways, I'm slightly amused by how DL initially appeared disagreeing but now seems to have been persuaded simply by frisc being persistent. I stopped posting because I realized that his reasoning was more of a personal experience and I felt it would be more difficult to persuade him otherwise. I didn't want to bother with it because I assumed Mefisto wouldn't change it and DL also appeared in my stead.
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  2. #12

    Default Re: Suggestion for Deeper Dungeons

    So, let's do a comparison of elements that support the campaign and elements against: the introduction in the manual and the Avatar being just in the last level are the main elements that make us think that Deeper Dungeons is a campaign. The elements against are: the level's names (they don't seem happy lands to destroy, but land already belonging to evil); the fact that the text (objective and information) don't have the same writing style of original campaign, the levels' difficulty, that is fairly equal (thing I didn't think about). So I say this: let's Mefisto (because he is the KeeperFX developer) decide about the question... Moreover: since KeeperFX is highly customizable, everyone can make his version of the campaign/separate levels, according to his vision it, for example another user of this forum in another topic said "I did custom-make them into a Campaign, actually."...

  3. #13
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Deeper Dungeons

    Quote Originally Posted by friscmanseby View Post
    So, let's do a comparison of elements that support the campaign and elements against: the introduction in the manual and the Avatar being just in the last level are the main elements that make us think that Deeper Dungeons is a campaign. The elements against are: the level's names (they don't seem happy lands to destroy, but land already belonging to evil); the fact that the text (objective and information) don't have the same writing style of original campaign, the levels' difficulty, that is fairly equal (thing I didn't think about). So I say this: let's Mefisto (because he is the KeeperFX developer) decide about the question... Moreover: since KeeperFX is highly customizable, everyone can make his version of the campaign/separate levels, according to his vision it, for example another user of this forum in another topic said "I did custom-make them into a Campaign, actually."...
    Perhaps you should space that out, it looks really disorganized and is a little hard to read.

    Anyways, there only is (according to you anyways) one reason why it should be made into a campaign, and that reason is the story. The story shouldn't be the reason as to why everyone is forced to play them in a specific way. Not quite sure if you'll fully understand that as that's exactly your preference, but I know it would be an annoyance to me. Some of the maps I really don't like due to bad and/or weird level design. Besides, all the story really suggests/states is that Belial is meant to be the last level.
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  4. #14

    Default Re: Suggestion for Deeper Dungeons

    Ok, I apologize for my insistence, and for my bad writing but you now, in my native language (Italian) we have sometimes very long sentences and I not practice English very often...

  5. #15
    KeeperFX Author mefistotelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Deeper Dungeons

    I will go a bit little off-topic, but what I'm going to write will surely add to the discussion:

    Currently, levels in a campaign can only be played one-after-another, and beating previous one is needed to gain access to next one.

    I was thinking about improving the campaign flow to allow tree-like structure of levels, allowing different paths, ie:
    a) you start with two levels available, and you must beat level #1 or #2 to get access to levels #3, #4 and #5.
    b) all levels are available just at start, you may beat them in any order (after a level is beaten, it disappears from the land view until you beat all of them)

    Inside campaign config files, it's easy to implement it by just adding a list of leaf levels to every level. But that makes a problem with land view images - the amount of different images grows fast with every possible path of playing.

  6. #16

    Default Re: Suggestion for Deeper Dungeons

    I don't know: it will make a problem with land view in both cases, the a) is cool for certain campaigns, the b) doesn't fit so well in a campaign with increasing difficulty; maybe you can do this way: after you beat a level, you can replay it without having to beat the campaign or, when you start new game, you can decide if play a campaign in order or as a free levels list...

  7. #17
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Deeper Dungeons

    A seems interesting but B seems kind of pointless since said maps can simply be added to Freeplay Maps.
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  8. #18
    Dragon DragonsLover's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Deeper Dungeons

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Anyways, I'm slightly amused by how DL initially appeared disagreeing but now seems to have been persuaded simply by frisc being persistent. I stopped posting because I realized that his reasoning was more of a personal experience and I felt it would be more difficult to persuade him otherwise. I didn't want to bother with it because I assumed Mefisto wouldn't change it and DL also appeared in my stead.
    At all times, I was unsure about that. It's true, I mentioned that I really disagree about that, but now, I wonder if it would be a good idea or not. That's why I wanted your opinions.
    But say, is it that dramatic for not being able to play these levels in a certain order? Afaik, you can always easily skip a level using the cheat mode or by modifying the level script although it's true it's not really recommended.

    However, I love the idea of Mefisto where the levels would be placed as flags on a landscape instead of being placed in a menu, amongst the other free play levels. We could make sort that we could play any levels in the order we want except for Belial that will be kept for the end because it has the Avatar.
    Last edited by DragonsLover; July 8th, 2012 at 05:31.
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  9. #19
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Deeper Dungeons

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsLover View Post
    But say, is it that dramatic for not being able to play these levels in a certain order? Afaik, you can always easily skip a level using the cheat mode or by modifying the level script although it's true it's not really recommended.
    Well, is it really that necessary to semi-force people to play the levels in a certain order? It just creates extra work for those who don't want to, and for those who do, they have the option of doing so with the current settings. I see no reason for change as the current settings can make everyone happy.
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  10. #20
    Dragon DragonsLover's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Deeper Dungeons

    True. That's why I suggested:

    Quote Originally Posted by myself
    However, I love the idea of Mefisto where the levels would be placed as flags on a landscape instead of being placed in a menu, amongst the other free play levels. We could make sort that we could play any levels in the order we want except for Belial that will be kept for the end because it has the Avatar.
    I like dragons! They're the center of my life! I'll never forget them...



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