Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: How to remove 20% dmg boost of creature spells?

  
  1. #1

    Default How to remove 20% dmg boost of creature spells?

    Wow...Posts made in 2012! Awesome!

    I knew people couldn't let this awesome game die.

    I installed KeeperFX, mostly for fixing the scroll bug (It literally takes me 20 minutes to get into a DD mission...lol) and so I don't have to turn off my video everytime I want to play. The WOP fix is a nice boost.
    The problem though: every spell is doing a buttload of damage. I tested in the normal DK and 20 damage missile remains 20 damage, 100 damage meteor remains 100 damage.
    But in KeeperFX Dragons do like 300 dmg with meteor at level 10. Oh, and Horny has Armor O_o.

    I don't see the point of breaking every spell caster, so how do I remove this damage boost that has been added?

    Oh and what's the deal with defence/skill. I noticed they have all been changed, but is the defence/skill simply capped at 255, or does it actually screw up beyond 255?
    In case it doesn't, I feel it might be intended. I mean...tunnelers and other crappy fighters don't hit 255 skill ever, it's not like everything at level 10 is equal. Some just hit it faster then others.
    Should I want to change this, simply copying the original campaign's creature files and overwriting those in the creatr folder in datafx would work, correct? Would this also change all creature's to their original spell list (So no Horny with Armor)?

    Another surprise from reading the forums here was how Speed and Heal were actually bugged. I always found it rather strange that heal was so OP and how level 9 Horny is weaker then Level 10.
    I always just used 100 CD Speed. In my bit of play I noticed Speed was fixed. Has Heal also been fixed? I haven't ran into any level 10 wizards, and I couldn't for the life of me remember how much dragons heal at level 10 (Never used them, y'know the whole WOP thing, best I used were level 2s).

    So thanks in advance, and great job on all the bug fixes. My suggestion would be to add a standard creature files and such for those who wish to play the standard game. I notice alot of people simply can't get the game running without KeeperFX, some might want to play the game without changes such as armor for Horny (IMHO completely unneccisary...). The only change I make is an Avatar with Speed/Lightning/Armor/Heal/Hail/Rebound/Slow/Freeze. It's awesome to watch him hack through 20 of my Orcs, finally he's worthy as a boss. Too bad there's only 2 official missions that have him.

  2. #2

    Default Re: How to remove 20% dmg boost of creature spells?

    Yes, it's awesome that there is still in 2012 someone talking about dungeon keeper. To fix the scroll bug you can use this. The spells do a great amount of damage because in original DK there is a bug that made every attack "capped", that mean that you can't do the meant damage if it goes beyond this cap (in fact, it seemed strange to me that the Avatar, so good at defence, was a crap in attack). Now with Keeper FX the damage hasn't the cap anymore and so some battles are "shorter" than on original DK, and some balances are broken because now some creatures are way better than before. The Horny has Armor, but it is not the only change: KeeperFX doesn't use the original game data, but is based on DragonsLover (one of the user of this forum) patch, that tries to increase the realism and the balance of the game. The speed and other creatures' magic were changed because now work like they're meant to work (reading the game code seems like there were 9 step of powers (like Keeper magic one), one for level, but there are 10 levels of experience, and so the magic at level 10 read the next magic at level 1). For the fast hitting creatures, mainly the Horny, it's because of its great speed, so if he does one step is too close, if he does one step back is to distant, and so he goes back and forth and hit faster. If you want a game experience similar to the original one you can: go in the configuration files and low the damage done by the various shot. Moreover, the "ancient keeper" configuration files are made to be closest as possible to the original game, because are levels in which the smallest change can made the level impossible (when and if you'll play it you'll understand it)... I think I answered to all your question, if you have more, you're the welcome

  3. #3

    Default Re: How to remove 20% dmg boost of creature spells?

    Thanks for the reply, although I am a bit confused. When you talk about the powers reading the next magic at level 1 do you mean the Heal and Speed bugs?

    Because I have done extensive testing, and in original DK the damage is pretty much ALWAYS the damage shown in the creature.txt. Missile ALWAYS does 20 dmg.
    At level 1, level 5, level 10. So it's not like spells are very strong at level 9 then suddenly rollback to level 1 damage. I don't think this is a bug. If you have any links where I can read up on why and how this is actually a bug I would appreciate it.
    For instance, it's really unbalanced now. Dragons do insane amounts of damage, meteor just owns now. Vampires, Mistresses, Wizards, Witches, Samurai. Pretty much everything which was already OP is even worse now. Most melee was already quite weak, and now it's even worse.

    Do you have any idea how I could fix WOP myself? I read pretty much everything regarding it on this forum and the most I got out of it was that I needed to change the KEEPER95.exe. I've looked at it with a hex editor but the only WOP reference I can find is the trap.
    The WOP trap works perfectly so I don't think changing this would do any good.

    And your Horny explanation sounds like the one previously given when someone asked about "machine-gun Horny". I'm not really asking about that though (It happens in the normal game aswell).
    What I meant was is defense/skill bugged in such a way that it screws up some creatures? Because every experience with the game tells me it is simply capped (and removing this cap would cause some pretty weird things like Samurai being even stronger then they already are).
    For instance: Wizards/Warlocks/Witches have crap defense. They get hit very easily at nearly all levels by low level Horny because his skill is capped quite early, whereas a low level spider might have alot more trouble hitting a level 10 warlock because he needs 10 levels to get even close to the cap. Even Knights and Dragons get smacked often because they have very bad defense.

    By the way, does Armor allow the defense cap to break 255? To me it seems that way because everything with Armor seems to become nigh unhittable (especially Orcs and Vampires). I'd prefer not having to test this myself...
    It might also feel that way because Armor allows them to hit the cap faster and then it just suddenly looks like they avoid alot of hits.

  4. #4
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    5,689

    Default Re: How to remove 20% dmg boost of creature spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by HerselfTheElf View Post
    Thanks for the reply, although I am a bit confused. When you talk about the powers reading the next magic at level 1 do you mean the Heal and Speed bugs?
    The Speed, Protect, etc creature spells refer to the Keeper variations for defining how strong they are. At Level 1, they are equivalent to Power 1, at Level 4 to Power 4, etc. At Level 10, as there is no Power 10, the game will then refer to Power 1 of the next Keeper Spell. This is the cause of the bugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by HerselfTheElf View Post
    For instance, it's really unbalanced now. Dragons do insane amounts of damage, meteor just owns now. Vampires, Mistresses, Wizards, Witches, Samurai. Pretty much everything which was already OP is even worse now. Most melee was already quite weak, and now it's even worse.
    Melee is also one of the things being held back by the 255 cap so it should also have increased in strength. So I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Unless you're referring to Hit/Miss, then...

    Quote Originally Posted by HerselfTheElf View Post
    What I meant was is defense/skill bugged in such a way that it screws up some creatures? Because every experience with the game tells me it is simply capped (and removing this cap would cause some pretty weird things like Samurai being even stronger then they already are).
    For instance: Wizards/Warlocks/Witches have crap defense. They get hit very easily at nearly all levels by low level Horny because his skill is capped quite early, whereas a low level spider might have alot more trouble hitting a level 10 warlock because he needs 10 levels to get even close to the cap. Even Knights and Dragons get smacked often because they have very bad defense.
    There's a glitch with Dexterity values that causes Dexterity to drop back to 0 if it goes beyond 255. Mefisto has partially corrected this by creating a cap at 255. As apart of DragonsLover's patch, Dexterity values have been decreased (to 24% of their original value to be exact) to create diversity between creatures rather than allowing them to all simply hit 255. However, he made a mistake and didn't decrease the Defense values, causing everyone to relatively have low hit rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by HerselfTheElf View Post
    By the way, does Armor allow the defense cap to break 255? To me it seems that way because everything with Armor seems to become nigh unhittable (especially Orcs and Vampires). I'd prefer not having to test this myself...
    It might also feel that way because Armor allows them to hit the cap faster and then it just suddenly looks like they avoid alot of hits.
    Armor does not effect Defense, no. In fact, the creatures you refer to don't even have that high an armor stat. The Orc has 60 (75 with Protect) and the Vampire has 30 (37 with Protect). Neither of which could be considered high. They simply have higher Defense stats. I would consider 30 to be average, and the Orc/Vampire have 65/80 respectfully.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

    The Awakening: GM Powers Activate!
    Tesonu is napping!

  5. #5

    Default Re: How to remove 20% dmg boost of creature spells?

    So the bug ONLY affects defensive skills? Heal, Speed, Armor, Invisibility? How would it affect something like Meteor? There's no keeper meteor spell.

    I thought Armor affected Defense. So it doesn't? 100%? Wow. So protect is pretty much useless on all creatures that have it except Avatar. And maybe Orcs.

    If the dexterity (Skill, in creature info, right?) resets back to 0 when over 255 then how do Horned Reapers pretty much hit very well at all levels?
    HR:
    Level 1 = 160
    Level 2 = 216
    Level 3 = 272 (16-17 if it resets).

    So at level 3 HR's should miss alot. Has anyone actually tested that they do? I never really noticed. Level 8 HR's should also miss a ton.

  6. #6
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    5,689

    Default Re: How to remove 20% dmg boost of creature spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by HerselfTheElf View Post
    So the bug ONLY affects defensive skills? Heal, Speed, Armor, Invisibility? How would it affect something like Meteor? There's no keeper meteor spell.
    It effects the Spells that refer to Keeper Spell data. Other Spells have their own data to refer to. The damage of spells increases by 35% with each level, same increase as in all leveling.

    Quote Originally Posted by HerselfTheElf View Post
    I thought Armor affected Defense. So it doesn't? 100%? Wow. So protect is pretty much useless on all creatures that have it except Avatar. And maybe Orcs.
    I think you're mixing up Armor and Defense. Armor effects the percentage of damage nulled from all attacks and Defense is a unit's ability to dodge. These are the names given to the stats in the creature.txt file. Not all the ingame descriptions are correct.

    Protect boosts a unit's armor by 25% and also nulls Keeper Lightning. However, there is a max armor stat of 210, which is enough to null 80% of all damage. No one has this high an Armor in the original game though. The only one who gets close is The Avatar w/Protect, and he stands with 150 Armor, thus nullifying 59% of all damage. Still a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by HerselfTheElf View Post
    If the dexterity (Skill, in creature info, right?) resets back to 0 when over 255 then how do Horned Reapers pretty much hit very well at all levels?
    HR:
    Level 1 = 160
    Level 2 = 216
    Level 3 = 272 (16-17 if it resets).

    So at level 3 HR's should miss alot. Has anyone actually tested that they do? I never really noticed. Level 8 HR's should also miss a ton.
    In the original, I recall Level 10 Horned Reapers missing a lot. Here, however, Horned Reapers have a Dexterity of 50, relatively high, and it increases by 17.5 every level.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

    The Awakening: GM Powers Activate!
    Tesonu is napping!

  7. #7

    Default Re: How to remove 20% dmg boost of creature spells?

    Where can I find this data? Because in-game testing shows that Missile is always 20 damage. It never changes. 4 hits to kill a level 1 imp, no matter if the user is level 5 or level 10. In KeeperFX it says it is 20% and not 35%. I think this is true because Meteor seems to do around 300 damage coming from a level 10 dragon (in vanilla DK it is always 100 damage, I have never seen it change). Calculated it should do 280 damage at level 10 and that is right in line. 35% would mean 415 damage at level 10. This would 2hko a level 5 archer. In game testing shows an archer easily survives 2 level 10 meteors.

    So how do I change this back to default? Meteor always 100 damage, etc.

    I'm going to do some testing with STR cap. I never realized it was capped at 255.
    I do think you are correct, I was always confused about this. At lvl 10 HR's 3hko Fairy's (I think...). At level 1 they OHKO them. Fairy at level 10 has 600 something HP. So it makes perfect sense.
    So in KeeperFX this is 100% certain not capped anymore? Because it really didn't feel like my Bile Demons or HR was strong at all. Giants did seem to hit like a truck on my dragons, but to be honest Giants have always hit like a truck anyway...
    So in KeeperFX a HR will 3HKO a wizard at level 10? OHKO Fairy? 5 hits for a Mistress? In that case I think Samurai are going to be even more insane.

  8. #8
    KeeperFX Author mefistotelis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    1,242

    Default Re: How to remove 20% dmg boost of creature spells?

    The only way to change the increase is to re-compile KeeperFX.
    Some instructions:
    https://code.google.com/p/keeperfx/s...structions.txt

    You need to modify CREATURE_DAMAGE_INCREASE_ON_EXP inside creature_control.h.
    That will change both melee damage increase and ranged attack damage increase, including explosions (ie. WOP).
    To change it only for ranged attacks, you'd need to modify function calculate_shot_damage() inside thing_creature.c.

  9. #9

    Default Re: How to remove 20% dmg boost of creature spells?

    Thanks.

    With the STR cap removed, I might just need to get used to battles going faster.

    What is the estimated hit chance for dexterity/defense at various levels? Any idea what the calculation is?
    I'm not noticing any difference between level 2 HR and level 3. They both hit pretty much all the time. Might need to get something other then a wizard, though.

  10. #10

    Default Re: How to remove 20% dmg boost of creature spells?

    It definately seems STR was capped first. HR's pretty much continue to deal insane dmg (3hko wizards...haha) throughout all levels. I'm guessing Barbarians and Orcs are much weaker now because they never go over the cap much and don't have much going in the way of spells.

    Outside of testing I did run into something weird with a HR. Although his Dexterity was 255 (it doesn't go over 255 in Keeperfx) he couldn't hit a bunch of level 2 dwarves.

    And exactly which are you all referring to when you mean Dexterity? I pretty much only used in-game values before, and after extensive testing (I'm talking about like 15 years back here...) I wondered why the hell Samurai were so strong and seemed to hit alot and evade alot.
    I'm not sure how I came to this idea but judging from the icons and testing back then I figured that "Skill" (target icon) was actually Hit Rate. And Dexterity (Face with arrows for mustache) was melee evasion. I had never looked at the game files (took HP stats etc from guides).

    So exactly which is which?! In-game/game file stats stats say Dexterity is Dexterity and Skill is Defence and Armour is Defence. God what a mess...
    So Skill is actually melee-evasion? It would line up with my current ideas since Mages all have low Skill and they seem to get hit ALOT. But for Knights...at level 1 where you have to kill the lord with a bunch of beetles I noticed he's a pain to hit, yet he doesn't seem to hit my beetles all the time. His Dexterity is insanely high yet his Skill is very low. Later however, I found that the Knight was actually quite easy to hit. Dragons have the same story, except only on the "getting hit part". It seems to be very easy to hit a dragon.

    Also... I used to think all values increased by 35%. But in KeeperFX Dexterity increases at a rate of 15% per level, Skill increases at a rate of 20% per level, and strength (HP also) at 35% per level. Is this the same in vanilla DK? Or have the Dexterity/Skill levels been changed?

    And has AI been changed? It's pretty awesome how I actually lost a few times. In vanilla DK I just breeze through every Deeper Dungeons level without any effort first time around (I didn't get DK Gold until recently, and didn't use any guides). Now however, hero's seem to act much different. Creatures also by the way (sorta annoying sometimes, I smacked a Warlock in the Training Room, and he runs back to the Library to research. I had to throw him back in to make him stay in the Training Room). Anyway, I bottled myself up as usual, then I broke out when I had a bunch of level 10s. Normally Hero's just waddle around and let themselves be picked off group by group. Now, however, they decided that it would be a good idea to run for my dungeon en-masse. This was Batezek, by the way. I had to deal with masses upon masses of level 5 hero's and even my level 10 dragons and Mistresses couldn't handle it. It seemed more difficult then the fight at Skybird Thrill after you kill the Avatar, and that was pretty much the most difficult fight in vanilla DK/DD of all levels.

    And finally, I ran into a very annoying bug (I think it is...). I played a level of the Ancient Keeper Campaign. After this, all my creatures were using screwed up stats when I went back to play Deeper Dungeons. Warlocks had 62 Dexterity, despite the creature files saying 100 Dexterity. I also didn't get a start of level debriefing (The "?" message; it was completely blank). I removed Keeperfx and reinstalled, copied my files with all the creature data at their original vanilla values, and everything was fixed (Stats back to normal, message also back to normal).

Similar Threads

  1. Creature Spells & Abilities
    By Duke Ragereaver in forum The Lair
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: May 1st, 2012, 23:53
  2. new spells
    By Endrix in forum KeeperFX
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: December 30th, 2010, 19:54
  3. Ranged spells/shots
    By Hapuga in forum Dungeon Keeper 2
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: December 30th, 2009, 19:55

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •