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Thread: The Twin Keepers

  
  1. #1
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    Default The Twin Keepers

    Ok, how the ~@!$%^& *&($ am I supposed to get past level 3? When I kill the thieves, a nigh invincible party rains down on my position and I just get slaughtered. How the hell am I supposed to win?

    ETA: I've given up. That campaign is utterly fucking impossible.
    Last edited by Hades; January 5th, 2013 at 22:55.

  2. #2
    KeeperFX Author mefistotelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Twin Keepers

    Yeah, it seem the author made a huge mistake.

    He spawned a lot of heroes just after you claim the entrance, but forgot that doors are open and the whole army can invade you.
    On the other side the open doors have an important purpose.

    I will replace the party with an easier one.
    This campaign would surely benefit if it had text objectives (ie. at start it should instruct you to take bottom door first, not the one near entrance).

  3. #3
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    Default Re: The Twin Keepers

    As well as that, Level 1 does not have a victory condition, and I had to skip the level (believe me, I did not want to go through that slog again.), and Level 3 has a couple of other glaring flaws (the fact that the thieves cannot be touched for fear of being wiped out makes it utterly impossible to maintain an army big enough to defend yourself against the hero armies that come every payday. That said, it would be a good idea for magic doors to be available as well, so you can make that extra bit of money. My other problem is the fact that the hero army sounds like a boss fight, rather than unleashed just as you are reeling from a massive hero attack)

  4. #4

    Default Re: The Twin Keepers

    Maybe we can patch it: we can do a victory condition for level 1, and maybe lock those doors (I'm not yet playing to Twin Keepers, but from what I read I think it's the best way to do it)...

  5. #5
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    Default Re: The Twin Keepers

    (embattled formation) is also outright impossible. You can't get any good creatures in time while you are being hemmed in, and the fact that you are utterly outnumbered at least 3-1 by enemy imps alone doesn't make it any better. So, maybe the open expanses could be changed into earth so you can actually survive that level.

    Damn that campaign was nigh impossible.

  6. #6
    KeeperFX Author mefistotelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Twin Keepers

    You are right, the lack of walls is forcing almost instant 3-on-one conflict, and all players have equal perspectives at start, so it's hard to fight these imps.

    And if you would somehow be able to defeat one player, you would notice the others gain strength from ones defeat.

    Still, I think the open world should be kept here.

    What do you think about partially separating the players by lava, and giving human player a few lava traps at start?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: The Twin Keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by mefistotelis View Post
    You are right, the lack of walls is forcing almost instant 3-on-one conflict, and all players have equal perspectives at start, so it's hard to fight these imps.

    And if you would somehow be able to defeat one player, you would notice the others gain strength from ones defeat.

    Still, I think the open world should be kept here.

    What do you think about partially separating the players by lava, and giving human player a few lava traps at start?
    That would be doable, except AFAIK you need an actual workshop and actual crates to make them any use.

    What about keeping the open world, except there are impenetrable rock chokepoints or lava chokepoints, and you have up to 6 Braced/Iron doors? Maybe even give the player a couple of level 6 or , just as a rapid response to various incursion?.

    The problem with The Twin Keepers campaign is that there are excellent concepts, yet the level execution makes them outright insane (of the levels I played, level 1 had no victory condition, and I got through level 2 by the skin of my teeth. What about adding 2 gem faces at the later stretches of each level? Meanwhile, Level 3 is just insane)

    ETA: would it be possible to have revised Twin Keepers Campaign in the next edition of KeeperFX? Because I would really want to play the campaign for the challenge, but the extreme difficulty is putting me off.
    Last edited by Hades; January 14th, 2013 at 19:48.

  8. #8
    KeeperFX Author mefistotelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Twin Keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hades View Post
    That would be doable, except AFAIK you need an actual workshop and actual crates to make them any use.
    There could be a claimable workshop with 6 traps on the level.
    The traps would allow to isolate 2 enemies, but not the third one.

    That would narrow the fight to one enemy + flies from 2 other enemies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hades View Post
    of the levels I played, level 1 had no victory condition
    I've updated the condition, but to be honest I didn't see anything wrong with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hades View Post
    and I got through level 2 by the skin of my teeth. What about adding 2 gem faces at the later stretches of each level?
    You mean to all levels, or to 1st and 2nd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hades View Post
    Meanwhile, Level 3 is just insane
    I hope we'll fix that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hades View Post
    would it be possible to have revised Twin Keepers Campaign in the next edition of KeeperFX? Because I would really want to play the campaign for the challenge, but the extreme difficulty is putting me off.
    Sure, I though you know we're just doing it.
    The previous changes you proposed (at least those made to the script) are already on SVN, ie.:
    https://code.google.com/p/keeperfx/s...&r=632&old=631
    https://code.google.com/p/keeperfx/s...&r=631&old=291

  9. #9
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    Default Re: The Twin Keepers

    That's good to hear about the revised campaign, can't wait to play

    Finally, I meant having 2 gem faces for the first and second levels rather than all levels.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Twin Keepers

    Hey guys, what are you talking about? The victory condition for the level 1 of Twin Keeper is:
    IF(PLAYER0,FLAG0 == 4)
    ADD_PARTY_TO_LEVEL(PLAYER_GOOD,PARTY3,27,2)
    ADD_PARTY_TO_LEVEL(PLAYER_GOOD,PARTY9,-7,2)
    ADD_PARTY_TO_LEVEL(PLAYER_GOOD,RANGED_PARTY2,-8,2)
    ADD_TUNNELLER_PARTY_TO_LEVEL(PLAYER_GOOD,PARTY4,-5,DUNGEON_HEART,0,9,500)
    ADD_TUNNELLER_PARTY_TO_LEVEL(PLAYER_GOOD,PARTY10,-6,DUNGEON_HEART,0,9,500)
    IF(PLAYER_GOOD,TIMER0 >= 800)
    ADD_PARTY_TO_LEVEL(PLAYER_GOOD,PARTY8,-1,1)
    ADD_PARTY_TO_LEVEL(PLAYER_GOOD,PARTY7,2,1)
    ADD_PARTY_TO_LEVEL(PLAYER_GOOD,PARTY6,-3,1)
    ADD_PARTY_TO_LEVEL(PLAYER_GOOD,PARTY5,-4,1)
    ENDIF
    IF(PLAYER_GOOD,TIMER0 >= 2000)
    ADD_PARTY_TO_LEVEL(PLAYER_GOOD,STRONGEST_PARTY,-8,1)
    ENDIF
    IF(PLAYER_GOOD,TIMER0 >= 1400)
    IF(PLAYER0,ALL_DUNGEONS_DESTROYED == 1)
    IF(PLAYER_GOOD,TOTAL_CREATURES < 1)
    WIN_GAME
    ENDIF
    ENDIF
    ENDIF
    ENDIF
    Maybe it doesn't work? I'm going to play this campaign as the last, because I played them in alphabetical order, so I hope I can enjoy this, if the levels are playable... Someone tested them?

    Hades, which version of KeeperFX do you have?

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