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Thread: Post Ancient Keeper - Armageddon.

  
  1. #11
    Demon Spawn
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    Default Re: Post Ancient Keeper - Armageddon.

    I'm trying to complete this level. Took me many times before I saw off the skeletons. Then all good, until the Hornys are released, and I get slaughtered in a very short time! I recall that Horny's stats were flawed in the original game, and because KeeperFX fixed it, he's now much more powerful? Is this correct? I wonder if it's made this level impossible? I have 6 knights and 8 dragons, plus the 4 original mistresses, plus a token monk, and the fight lasts no time at all.

    dayo

  2. #12

    Default Re: Post Ancient Keeper - Armageddon.

    No, AK uses special old fashioned stats and all the classic bugs.

  3. #13
    Demon Spawn
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    Default Re: Post Ancient Keeper - Armageddon.

    I still can't complete this level. Not even close. I watched a youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWVgGhGlR-o and I think it's fair to say that Horny is much more powerful now for some reason? I will re-play to generate a save file to illustrate the difference (I over-wrote the best example, as I'm testing in-game messages for this campaign).

    Plays fine in 0.48 release candidate btw

    dayo

  4. #14

    Default Re: Post Ancient Keeper - Armageddon.

    Yes, please do. The old stats are emulated of course, since the original bugs are fixed. But the goal of these configs is to try and make the reaper as weak as he become in the original game.

  5. #15
    Demon Spawn
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    Default Re: Post Ancient Keeper - Armageddon.

    Has anyone ever set any baselines? Staged battles between creatures in the original game to establish the original relative strengths? Then the same test level in KeeperFX to confirm same general outcomes?

    The automated level could generate messages after running a large number of these battles to confirm agreement? Could also check for things like creatures getting stuck, imps collecting spells, creatures being tortured - anything relevant really?

    I suppose GOG would be the baseline?

    dayo

  6. #16

    Default Re: Post Ancient Keeper - Armageddon.

    I believe it has been tested like that in the past yes, but it's still a trade-off. Lvl10 units were often much weaker than lvl9 units for example due to the spell bug. And the stat overflow bug affected different units at different levels, but that also resulted in higher levels being weaker than lower levels. The strength bug made units plateau at certain levels. All of these hit the reaper especially hard, but lvl1-lvl4 reapers where still pretty good.
    Mefisto made the new stats based on ancient keeper, but he had to find a middle ground. Does he give a reaper the stats so that a lvl10 fx-reaper is as weak as a lvl10 dk-reaper and that would mean lvl1-fx reapers would be really, really weak. Before the balance, lvl1 units were aligned and that resulted in AK keeper being unplayable, so I guess he sought some middle ground.

    I think the best approach is not to further tweak the stats, but to go through Post-AK again in GOG, and see what kind of fights were doable with what kind of army. Then go trough FX, and see how the level should be modified to give roughly the same experience.

  7. #17
    Demon Spawn
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    Default Re: Post Ancient Keeper - Armageddon.

    Yeah, I figured it wouldn't be an exact science. I guess the important thing is the playing experience, and given what can be done within scripts, it should be possible to create the correct balance so levels play as they were originally intended.

    As I'm updating the scripts for in-game messaging I can try that out at the same time.

    thanks

    dayo

  8. #18
    Demon Spawn
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    Default Re: Post Ancient Keeper - Armageddon.

    Here's my savegame. Just before the Horny battle. If you unlock the door next to the torture room, when it's claimed they all show up.

    I had to re-play to get here, and I went to a lot of trouble to make my army as large as possible, with the limit of the prison size. Ironically I actually won the battle against the Hornys, and completed the level, so I think I may have answered my own question?!

    However, you may feel that Horny is much more powerful than the one in the youtube video? (link in message above)

    dayo

    PS I'm testing out messaging, and it's messed up towards the end for some reason.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  9. #19

    Default Re: Post Ancient Keeper - Armageddon.

    I checked your video, and I don't know, it's hard to say. You clearly have a much bigger army than the player in the youtube vid, but then I won easily without any micro. The youtuber actually managed his units quite well, always picking up the damaged units, giving them a chance to heal up again.

  10. #20
    Demon Spawn
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    Default Re: Post Ancient Keeper - Armageddon.

    Yeah, I maximised my army by holding 7 prisoners in my hand to make room for more skeletons-in-waiting. I have managed to lose from this savegame quite easily though. Order of engagement is important. I know what you mean about the battle management in the youtube video. However, the battle seems to be much quicker now, and removing units to heal doesn't work because the battle is over by the time they've even recovered partially? That's a rough judgement / feeling, so I could be corrected.

    beating the 3 avatars is very easy. Feels like it should be harder maybe?

    But bottom line, the level can be completed, so it's OK to stay as it is. It's supposed to be difficult.

    dayo

    PS it seems odd when the torture room is over-run with heroes, but the prisoners continue being tortured. It seems they should be able to escape at that point? I think this is configurable?

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