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Thread: The Kasabian Campaign - Episode 1

  
  1. #121

    Default Re: The Kasabian Campaign - Episode 1

    Quote Originally Posted by impboy4 View Post
    It's because the campaign was designed for version 1.3-1.51 of the game and not 1.7. If you want the levels to be easier; you can get the General Improvement Mod which applies 1.51 mechanics to your game.
    Hmmmmm okay I dont know what this means xD

    I dont want them to be easier!!! But i don't know the strategy for level 7!?

    I skiped level 7 because I have no idea!

    Now I am on level 8 and after 1-2 hours playing, the game is so slow omg, I dont know how to explain it with the right english words, but it jerks, like lagging!?!??? Maybe this level is too full of creatures? I dont know, it sucks really, it is like I would play online and my ping is 9999999999 xD

  2. #122
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Kasabian Campaign - Episode 1

    Quote Originally Posted by niva View Post
    Hmmmmm okay I dont know what this means xD
    There's four versions of DK2: 1.3, 1.51, 1.61, and 1.7. 1.61 is barely mentioned as it's just inferior to other versions. In each of these versions, the enemy Keeper AI behaves differently. Seeing as this is a campaign that primarily uses enemy Keepers, that is a pretty important factor.

    1.3 is the original game. This is what the Kasabian Campaign was designed under. I don't remember the differences in 1.51 exactly off the top of my head, but it's possible that it's more aggressive or trains better or something. 1.7's AI is also considered the braindead AI, because it doesn't response to enemy threats and won't drop down creates to defend itself.

    You can identify which version you're using by booting up DK2 and looking at the bottom left corner of DK2. It'll display the version number there. If it doesn't display a number, then it's 1.3. If you got DK2 off of GOG, then you're running 1.7 as that's the only version they have. Sadly it's considered the worst version of the game around these parts, due to the terrible AI>

    In addition to different versions having different AI, Skarok and I noted some strange behavior in how Keeper AI would behave when testing each others' maps. When one of us would test the map and leave the AI alone, the AI would act exactly the same each time, and build in the same patterns. However, when we gave it to the other person, the AI would behave differently, but that behavior would again be consistent for the other person. While it probably has something to do with different computers and DK2 reacting to each one in a different manner, this did make it problematic to balance maps. I could never beat level 5, Survival, because the AI Keepers would attack *much* sooner and simultaneously to another than Skarok could test for.

    Quote Originally Posted by niva View Post
    Now I am on level 8 and after 1-2 hours playing, the game is so slow omg, I dont know how to explain it with the right english words, but it jerks, like lagging!?!??? Maybe this level is too full of creatures? I dont know, it sucks really, it is like I would play online and my ping is 9999999999 xD
    Try lowering the graphics setting. The game hiccups and can crash if there's too many things going on at once, I assume due to it trying to render too many polygons at once or something.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
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  3. #123
    Mapmaker Skarok's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Kasabian Campaign - Episode 1

    Quote Originally Posted by CezzaXV View Post
    Hi there,

    I realise this campaign is over 3 years old now and I'm not sure if you're still monitoring this thread, but just in case I wanted to say thanks for all your hard work!

    I'm playing this with the GOG version of the game, and I've had doubts over whether the AI is working as intended. It is INSANELY difficult. Is it meant to be? I've fought my way through the first 9 levels, but I'm currently on Darkshines and I honestly dispute that it's possible. Within 10 minutes of starting the level the blue keeper is sending a large army of level 4-6 creatures right to my dungeon heart and there's nothing I can do to prevent it. I've seen other people commenting that it's easy!

    I see in the original post that it wasn't intended to work with version 1.7 but later posts suggested it might, maybe that's it.
    Hey there and thanks for your kind words! You're right, the campaign was intended for version 1.3 or 1.51, but people have also gotten the 1.7 to work by applying the "General Improvement Mod" by Wyrmcast. I think there's also a link to a DKII 1.3 version in this thread somewhere, though I'm not sure.

    Yeah, Darkshines is one of the level where it really comes down to whether the AI decides to play ball and behave or decides to run loose. Rex summed the main problem up perfectly and unfortunately, it can have quite severe consequences for this campaign due to the heavy focus on enemy Keepers.

    There are a few maps in which the erratic and inconsistent Keeper behavior can really mess things up, such as in Survival as Rex mentioned. Darkshines also seems to be tricky, in some cases the enemy Keeper is a total pushover, whereas he was intended as a more difficult version of the first Keeper in Supremacy and seriously managed to push my face in during my tests. I got him to attack consistently at about 25-30 minutes, but for some he never seems to attack at all, or in your case, way earlier than intended.

    Hysteria is also in a weird place; When the map works as intended you are fighting in a pretty difficult struggle against a Keeper coalition that takes turns in attacking you. Whilst this seemed to work for pretty much the entire testing phase, I think when Rex got to this map one or two Keepers would just cast CTA next to his dungeon heart right off the bat. And I have no clue why or how that even was possible, because there are set level requirements that the creatures of an AI Keeper have to reach before the game allows him to go over into an attack mode.

    With Stockholm Syndrome I don't even know where to start. For me Green consistently manages to beat the Heroes that attack him in the beginning and then expands rather quickly. When Decagon tested the map, the Heroes beat him into a pulp within 10-15 minutes of their initial attack. Which is just utter bullshit, because when I tested the map with the Keeper AI turned off, it took almost thrice the amount of time for him to die, with his creatures just randomly wandering about. I have no idea how the AI manages to screw up so badly with superior forces, insanely devastating trap rooms and spells and scripted reinforcements, that it can lose faster when it is actually managing its forces than when I purposely lobotomize it. And then when I test it again with the same version of the game, hell the exact same folder of DKII down to the last byte, the AI just mysteriously manages to do the exact opposite and destroy the Heroes much faster than I even planned.

    This is a huge problems for Keeper-centric maps. You can spend hours and days in order to get one Keeper to behave in a satisfying, and most importantly consistent way, but when another person tries the map, it will most likely act completely different to how seen and manipulated it to behave all the time. This doesn't even need include any interaction between the AI and the player, as I mentioned with Stockholm Syndrome above. So you spend another couple of hours and dozens of tests until the AI finally behaves consistently for you and the tester. Success! Well, as soon as a third or fourth player has a go at the map you will most likely

    There is a reason most AI Keepers in the normal campaign just sit around defensively (Asmodeus, Malachai, Nemesis&Co), or are literally separated from you entirely until they are loosened on you (Malleus). The level where you face off with Harkan and Carrion is also a perfect example, for most people Harkan never ever even makes an attempt at the Temple whilst Carrion casts his CTA once or twice and then leaves it, completely destroying the point of the whole map.

    And then there's 1.7, after which the AI will not even drop creatures at threats anymore. Or never more than one at a time at least. The AI (and the rules it operates under ha, as if!) is really just a big mystery in this game. :/

    Quote Originally Posted by niva View Post

    Thank you for this awesome campaign!!! I am now on level 7 (follow me) and I dont know how to make it!!!!!!!! No portal and many heroes, they are attacking me and I can not fight them.
    Can someone help me??
    On that map you can capture a workshop, prisons (+a Torture Chamber I think) and you can build a graveyard. So all in all, you won't be able to get too many creatures. Make sure to train those you have up as much as possible and secure your dungeon with traps. In order to beat Yellow you can't hope to overpower him, really. But if you explore the destroyed Hero castle between your dungeon and his domain you will see pillars of indestructible stone surrounded by a bit of earth and some Hero walls in each room. If you tear down the earth and the walls the pillars will collapse and heroes will cave in through the roof. Some of those heroes will attack you and some will attack Yellow. So make sure to build defenses and when you are ready, unleash the Heroes in order to weaken and distract Yellow.

    Whilst his creatures are fighting the Heroes you can use your small number of (hopefully now high leveled) creatures to sneak into his dungeon from another side and kill him whilst his army is distracted. Or you just rampage through his dungeon and lairs specifically whilst he is off fighting, thus you will ensure that his creatures can't recover. Yours will be probably level 9 or 10 afterwards and even with his two portals level 1 creatures shouldn't cause you any trouble. Just make sure to kill him before the Heroes you released get too far into your dungeon as well! A long trap corridor should be able to delay them long enough if they are a problem.

    If you still have difficulties with the level, there's a secret Horned Reaper in a prison just to the Southeast of the Yellow Keepers' eastern dungeon entrance. Good luck!

    Quote Originally Posted by niva View Post

    And some notes: I noticed, that in some levels sometimes the rival comes very early!! I dont know why, maybe it is kind of a bug - just restart or reload, and often the problem is solved.

    THIS! This is hugely important, but I don't know if I ever specifically mentioned it in this thread. If you load a saved game on a Kasabian map after playing Skirmish, MPD or the normal campaign the global date (I think, it's been some time) of the map before will be used for the Kasabian map. This is why you could play Skirmish with the map revealed and then when you loaded into the normal campaign still carry over that benefit. Restarting, or reloading your save after you loaded into the map might be a good solution to fix some issues with wonky AI behavior and it seems to be working out for you.

    I'll make sure to add this information to the initial post!

    Quote Originally Posted by niva View Post
    But omg this campaign is SO HARD LOL but it makes so much fun!!!!!!! Have to load very often - otherwise I would have been beaten 1000 times hahaha
    Yeah the difficulty might spike a bit too much at times, especially if the AI decides to go rampant. But I'm glad you're having fun nonetheless!

    Quote Originally Posted by niva View Post
    Now I am on level 8 and after 1-2 hours playing, the game is so slow omg, I dont know how to explain it with the right english words, but it jerks, like lagging!?!??? Maybe this level is too full of creatures? I dont know, it sucks really, it is like I would play online and my ping is 9999999999 xD
    As Rex said, try lowering your graphics setting to medium or low. It's just for this mission and possibly for Liquid State and the final battles in Ruled by Secrecy. There are loads and loads of creatures on the map as you fight the three toughest enemy Keepers during these missions and the game can lag out if you and the AI duke it out with your full forces. Make sure to save before and after major engagements on these particular maps!

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    On another note, I'll possibly get back to working on the SoP-Expansion again soon, which, if it does indeed get finished at some point, will be the next best thing since sliced cheese. Or sliced bread, take your pick I guess! No promises yet though.
    Last edited by Skarok; January 24th, 2017 at 00:15.
    There is absoluetly nothing wrong with DK Mobile, whatsoever.

  4. #124

    Default Re: The Kasabian Campaign - Episode 1

    Thank you!

    Well I played it again, but at the end i had to cheat (( Dont know how to make it - no portal, no spells etc.... only a this dwarf and a few skeletons and maybe 1 vampire. Hmmmmmmmmmm dont know.

    Sorry I meant "explorers" and not "animals" with this lagg-thing. I lowered graphic options but it still lagged. I just played and played and finally it went better.

    Skarok, you are from Germany?

  5. #125

    Unhappy Re: The Kasabian Campaign - Episode 1

    Hey guys,
    sorry but I am now playing "Hysteria" and I am overtaxed now.
    I was playing for maybe 1-2 hours, and then they are attacking me without a break. First green, then blue... It is ok, I am beating them, but there is no break!!!!! When the blue creatures are dead, the green ones come, and when I beat the green ones, the blue ones come again xD
    Is it a bug again or normal?

  6. #126
    Mapmaker impboy4's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Kasabian Campaign - Episode 1

    Quote Originally Posted by niva View Post
    Hey guys,
    sorry but I am now playing "Hysteria" and I am overtaxed now.
    I was playing for maybe 1-2 hours, and then they are attacking me without a break. First green, then blue... It is ok, I am beating them, but there is no break!!!!! When the blue creatures are dead, the green ones come, and when I beat the green ones, the blue ones come again xD
    Is it a bug again or normal?
    "Hysteria is also in a weird place; When the map works as intended you are fighting in a pretty difficult struggle against a Keeper coalition that takes turns in attacking you. Whilst this seemed to work for pretty much the entire testing phase, I think when Rex got to this map one or two Keepers would just cast CTA next to his dungeon heart right off the bat. And I have no clue why or how that even was possible, because there are set level requirements that the creatures of an AI Keeper have to reach before the game allows him to go over into an attack mode." -Skarok

  7. #127

    Default Re: The Kasabian Campaign - Episode 1

    ok i installed this general improvement mod. the DKII-DX.exe is ok, but DKII.exe doesnt work. there are many black big pixles i dont know how to play the kasabian campaign, because the enemies are fighting me nonstop...

  8. #128

    Default Re: The Kasabian Campaign - Episode 1

    well the DKII-DX-exe is for modern OS like win 7 or win 8, while on the normal DKII.exe you may experience bugs as you said "black pixles". the kasabian campaign is started via shortcut, there are multiple instructions in this thread on how to make such a shortcut. for the kasabian campaign, it is as mentioned on the first page very hard and no comparison to the original campaign in DKII. you should consider watching the two recordings of skarok playing the campaign, they are also linked somewhere in the thread.

    Most important you should get biledeamons or trolls for tanking and lots of dark-elfs and warlocks for damage. if the AI is attacking all the time, then your creatures should level up quite high, so you can just start turning the fight. later on, even if they enemy attacks he mostly has low creatures lvl1-4, what you should easily fight off.

    PS: Finished Prelude for the first time now, fought like an hour with green, till i finally got the upper hand
    Last edited by Deadworker; February 5th, 2017 at 15:09.

  9. #129

    Default Re: The Kasabian Campaign - Episode 1

    This campaign has been the most fun I've had in this game for ages so far . I'm playing it on 1.51, where the fact that most enemy hearts so far are protected by magic doors provides an additional nice difficulty.

    Currently, I'm playing Butterflys and Hurricanes and still looking for a proper setup, as either yellow digs into my base while expanding at the beginning or blue tries to grab some gold veins if I'm not fast enough, and either of them straight up run over me. I felt that Prelude and Survival were both pretty easy compared to e.g. Panic Station, but I cheesed the last two AIs in Survival.

    One question though, which editor did you use to make the levels? I cannot find any editor that gives me both the "Create Creature" option as well as the possibility to make enemy keepers directly get level 6 creatures out of portals. So far the Level-6-lamers always put up the best fights xP.

  10. #130
    Mapmaker impboy4's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Kasabian Campaign - Episode 1

    The official DK2 Editor. More specifically the 1.3 version which the campaign was made for.

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