DK2 Asmodeus

[Tanzklaue]

Hey guys,

I recently purchased Dungeon Keeper 2 on gog.com and i have a blast! up until Woodsong, i kinda breezed through all the missions, needed to retry the one mission where you have to take over the old dungeon from the previous keeper (i think that's mission 9). But Woodsong is just not doable for me.

Now, I am no fool, so I used the power of the internet to find a solution. The common strategy seems to be to just kill all the heroes with a long trapfloor. But here is the problem: Whereas it seems hat in anyone others game all heroes storm to your dungeon to die a gruesome death, the heroes in my game seem to have grown brains and split about 50/50 and invade both mine and asmodeus dungeon. While i have no problem holding the rushdown off, asmodeus just kinda dies like the whimp he is.

Now i also tried rushing asmodeus down, but the problem here is that then the heroes completely ignore the 10-15 minutes left on the timer and decide that now is as good a time to attack as any. they attack my ambush from behind and just kill everything, leaving me again without a chance to win.

Now i want to know: how can i perfect the rush down so i can get asmodeus quick enough that the heroes won't bother me? i would be very grateful for help!

[Metal Gear Rex]

I recently purchased Dungeon Keeper 2 on gog.com and i have a blast! up until Woodsong, i kinda breezed through all the missions, needed to retry the one mission where you have to take over the old dungeon from the previous keeper (i think that's mission 9). But Woodsong is just not doable for me.

You're referring to either Level 7 or 8. You do that in both levels, but in Level 7, you just take Gormagon's whole dungeon at the beginning and get a second portal. In Level 8, supposedly the Wizards scattered Dante's dungeon and so you claim rooms as you progress. So it's one of those two.

Now, I am no fool, so I used the power of the internet to find a solution. The common strategy seems to be to just kill all the heroes with a long trapfloor.

The intended strategy is to actually go out and kill Asmodeus by "sneaking" by the Heroes. But this level isn't very well designed all things considering. DKII is more intended towards casual and easy going players, where as this level is designed to be taken on in a more aggressive fashion. So it's pretty awkward and no surprise that most people prefer to turtle.

But here is the problem: Whereas it seems hat in anyone others game all heroes storm to your dungeon to die a gruesome death, the heroes in my game seem to have grown brains and split about 50/50 and invade both mine and asmodeus dungeon. While i have no problem holding the rushdown off, asmodeus just kinda dies like the whimp he is.

If I'm not mistaken, the Heroes always split their forces between the Player and Asmodeus. The real difference is that you're playing GOG, which has the 1.7 version of the game. 1.7 has somehow managed to break Keeper AI. It can no longer properly detect threat levels of Creatures, which it uses to be able to drop Creatures in response to enemy threats.

As a result, Asmodeus doesn't properly defend himself against the Heroes. Normally, he'd drop everything and they'd all fight it out, but in 1.7, the Heroes have an easy time as they only have to fight Creatures that just happen to cross their paths while wandering aimlessly in the dungeon. This ultimately results in the Heroes having absolutely no problem with killing Asmodeus.

Now i also tried rushing asmodeus down, but the problem here is that then the heroes completely ignore the 10-15 minutes left on the timer and decide that now is as good a time to attack as any. they attack my ambush from behind and just kill everything, leaving me again without a chance to win.

It's been a while since I looked at the script of vanilla Level 10, but if I recall correctly, there's a special script that sets all the Heroes to attack Asmodeus if his dungeon is very breached, which is why they will attack earlier than intended. When you think about it, this is very very silly. It's one of the reasons why I said this level isn't very well designed.

Now i want to know: how can i perfect the rush down so i can get asmodeus quick enough that the heroes won't bother me? i would be very grateful for help!

Try focusing on killing the Heroes instead of killing Asmodeus. Then there will be nothing left to invade Asmodeus. Attacking from the side should also bring you victory, as the Heroes won't be able to reach Asmodeus' Dungeon Heart before you kill it. Unless you're doing something wrong or Dungeon Hearts take longer to destroy in vanilla than I remember.

[Tanzklaue]

so i should take the siderooms with all the heroes out before the time limit is reached?

oh boy, then i probably should let one of the four hero portals near the starting position live to abuse prison and torture chamber and get an army big enough to take them on right?

also is there a possibility to patch the game so that keeper ai and creature spawns function again? not that i mind slmsot never getting gobbos and flies (they are useless anyway), but i'd like to get salamanders and dark knights/angels in later missions :/

Edit: or should i defend in asmodeus stead (the ambush on his side is laughably small compared to the ambush on my side) and let the trap corridor handle the heroes?

[Metal Gear Rex]

so i should take the siderooms with all the heroes out before the time limit is reached?

Taking out the Heroes in those rooms is a suggestion, but I don't remember exactly how many are there or what they're leveled. So it might not be the most viable strategy. Usually you just want to approach Asmodeus' dungeon from the west and just rush his Dungeon Heart before the Heroes show up. That's how I remember beating the level personally and how I've heard the level being beaten.

Technically, you only need to concern yourself with getting the last hit on Asmodeus' Dungeon Heart.

oh boy, then i probably should let one of the four hero portals near the starting position live to abuse prison and torture chamber and get an army big enough to take them on right?

I personally don't want to encourage that level of abuse in any way so I'm going to say no.

also is there a possibility to patch the game so that keeper ai and creature spawns function again?

not that i mind slmsot never getting gobbos and flies (they are useless anyway), but i'd like to get salamanders and dark knights/angels in later missions :/

No, there's no way to move from 1.7 to 1.3 or any other version of the game for that matter.

What is this Creature spawning issue? I don't recall anything of that sort occurring in 1.7.

Edit:

Edit: or should i defend in asmodeus stead (the ambush on his side is laughably small compared to the ambush on my side) and let the trap corridor handle the heroes?

That could be another strategy. Since Asmodeus is so brain dead, I doubt he'd bother you during that time. Or you could just build a load of Braced Doors and use those to slow down the Heroes so you can destroy Asmodeus' Heart.

[Tanzklaue]

I heard (and experienced) of creature spawning issues on some campaignmaps. for example i just can't get goblins and fireflies on some maps, and i only seem to be able to get salamanders if i had any before (curiously no new salamanders koin in case all the old ones die). i only got rogues once, in the mission where the casino is introduced. those issues may later spread out to dark knights and dark angels.

anyway, gonna retry the mission tomorrow, with a trapfloor + cannonroom for selfdefense and using my army to defend on asmodeus half (alternatively i try to ambush the west and storm his dungeonheart).

also, thank you for the quick response!

[Metal Gear Rex]

I heard (and experienced) of creature spawning issues on some campaignmaps. for example i just can't get goblins and fireflies on some maps, and i only seem to be able to get salamanders if i had any before (curiously no new salamanders koin in case all the old ones die). i only got rogues once, in the mission where the casino is introduced. those issues may later spread out to dark knights and dark angels.

Strange. I know of some issues with vanilla attracting system that exist in all versions of the game, but those are for understandable reasons. Things like, attracting a lot of Mistresses because you build a 5x5 Torture Chamber and that room ends up with a lot of "furniture", the furniture quantity actually being what defines the maximum amount of Mistresses and also increases the chances of getting them. (Well there's still the Creature Pool max set on the level)

Though, that is more of a flaw with the design in an attempt to give the Player more control over the Portal. What you describe sounds like some kind of bug, and not one that I'm familiar with.

also, thank you for the quick response!

I'm here all day and still no one pays me.

[Tanzklaue]

A Game Master has become unhappy because it hasn't been paid.

[Stone_Knight]

Strange...

I will describe how I finished it. Before the time get over I have opened a way, which the heroes get into my dungeon. Now the next proceed is very important for us:
Normally, I think, the way to the AI keeper is closed by rocks and we all know that only the dwarf can dig through to its dungeon. There are two available one for the player and the for AI.
Solution: You must kill the dwarf (s) !!!!

[Skarok]

In that case you would probably have to face off with the entire Hero army, as a lot of dwarves are parts of Hero parties. Anyways, destroying the Heroes isn't really that hard. You've got gems, so you can afford a big prison and torture chamber. Convert pretty much everything above level 2 and try to get as many Dark Mistresses and Bile Demons as possible, maybe some Warlocks as supporters as well. Train them up to level 4 and take the middle area of the map, then place some sentries in the small guard posts in the water if you want. After that you just start attacking one of the two Hero forts. Even if the other Heroes start intervening as well, you should easily be able to fight them on two fronts if you raise a good army. If not, take care of one fort first, leave some traps behind to keep the other Heroes busy, regroup and then take the second army out later. I think the western Heroes go after Asmodeus and the eastern ones after you, so in theory, you can just kill the western ones, heal up your creatures and then fight the remaining Heroes as they enter your main dungeon.

Alternatively, try attacking Asmodeus dungeon from the flanks. The Heroes will start attacking at that point, but a few doors are enough to keep them out of your dungeon for long enough and with a well trained army Asmodeus should easily fall before the Heroes even reach them in his dungeon. Especially in 1.7 with the extremely passive AI.

One last tactic, that is pretty much useless in 1.7 as it's more trouble than it's worth, is to build some heavy trap rooms and an outpost close to Asmodeus. Fight the Heroes that attack you for a bit, then leave them with the traps. As soon as the other Hero group has breached Asmodeus' dungeon and is dangerously close to reaching his heart room, assemble your army in the outpost and then take them from the rear. As before, you should easily be able to take care of them and Asmodeus before your defenses fail.

It's been a while since I looked at the script of vanilla Level 10, but if I recall correctly, there's a special script that sets all the Heroes to attack Asmodeus if his dungeon is very breached, which is why they will attack earlier than intended. When you think about it, this is very very silly. It's one of the reasons why I said this level isn't very well designed.

I think it's a good design choice, as the level would be laughably easy otherwise. And it makes strategically sense for the Heroes to do so.

[Tanzklaue]

I've done it!

i ambushed through the secret passageway via the west. i believe this is the only viable solution in 1.7 :/