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Thread: Does anyone else think 'Belbata' is too difficult?

  
  1. #1

    Default Does anyone else think 'Belbata' is too difficult?

    I think this level should be edited. The lightning spell is too powerful from the mistresses what your rivals have. the skeletons just die in about thirty seconds. What does anybody else think?

  2. #2
    Warlock
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    402

    Default Re: Does anyone else think 'Belbata' is too difficult?

    I managed it several times over. What REALLY helps is:

    1) moving fast to isolate the three keepers so you can pick them off one by one

    2) Capturing the prison ASAP so you can imprison heroes

    3) sneaking around the Yellow Keeper's base and capturing a torture chamber to convert the heroes so you can launch an attack later.
    or that is the question

  3. #3
    Beetle
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Underworld
    Posts
    126

    Default Re: Does anyone else think 'Belbata' is too difficult?

    I agree with Hades, the level isn't hard if you do the following.

    First build Your basics and start going straight north of your massive gold area to the one with the Gems. You want to steal that from Blue before he takes it. He won't go after it until his northern Gold is gone first. You should be able to follow the topmost gold of the seam and get the bridge and fortify the walls there before he comes through. Once you do that, your Gold in good. I would recommend fortifying the sides of the water as well so Green can't dig into you. Now go to the Portal and claim it and from here you can do 2 things.

    You can bust down the front door of the Hero keep and start killing and wasting the Heroes in it before you get the prisons.(Isn't really that bad since you will have a ton of prisoners from the Keepers, but having early skeletons and saving those Giants may be useful, your choice Keeper) Or you can carefully dig all the way around the Hero base entirely so it is under your control and once you have Destroy Walls, break into one of the Prisons directly. This way you can turn those Heroes into Skeletons and already have some high level ones ready. Be careful of the area with the Graveyard and the Samurai and Knights. You want to leave them in there until you have access to a Torture Room since they are more valuable as converts. There is also a Mistress to the far East wall if you want. And a Bile Demon on the far West at the edge of that little lake you dug into in the beginning, make sure to build a seperate lair for him :P

    Usually around this time I have close to 20 Skeletons, the 4 Warlocks, a Mistress and Bile Demon all level 10s and you are ready to start taking out the Keepers. Save Blue for later, he isn't in-fact the weakest. Dig into Yellow's base. Yellow's Imps are usually pretty slow and dimwitted so you could claim right around them and into the dungeon or zap them with your Mistress until they stop coming. It isn't that hard to get to his Dungeon Heart and kill him without even a battle. It is kinda amusing seeing his heart die and like 20-30 level 10s leaving when they would have easily wiped out your entire army. Or you can do what I did and add a little fun to the game and take over the entire base and build 4 Doors around the Dungeon Heart and leave him their til you want to kill him. At this point you should have a Torture Room(I believe Yellow gets one) Convert those Samurai and Knights from earlier and maybe the Giants from earlier if you kept them alive all this time. You know have more than enough to easily overthrow Blue, just be wary, I believe he has a Boulder in his heart room so a suicide imp may be useful to remove it. I usually don't lose a single creature at this point and if I do, it is a Skeleton or 2 which are expendable anyways at this point.

    Green is the hardest due to the trap bug. It isn't uncommon for him to build all traps and place them all on 1 tile. I have seen 5 Boulders, like 20 lava traps, 50 Poison traps all on 1 tile. I used many suicide imps to remove most of these annoyances and from there it is a matter of challenging Green head on or be sneaky. You should have even more Skeletons or have Vampires now or even a bunch of Converts at this point that you will overrun his army with ease.

    Good luck Keeper.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Does anyone else think 'Belbata' is too difficult?

    Belbata's not difficult - The lightning spell is just broken There's a thread on it in the KeeperFX section

    If you want to fix it locally (until the change is officially rolled out):

    1) Go to your KeeperFX Folder

    2) Go in 'fxdata'

    3) Open 'magic.cfg'

    4) Scroll all the way down to '[shot4]'

    5) Change the area damage value to this:

    AreaDamage = 0 0 0

    This will set the value to what it did in Vanilla DK and likely solve your problem

  5. #5

    Default Re: Does anyone else think 'Belbata' is too difficult?

    I had horrible trouble with Deeper Dungeons, not because of the enemies, but because of that "many traps on one tile" bug (not least because it's one of the things that eventually makes you hit the "too many animations" bug and thus be unable to gain new creatures or productively add new room tiles.) I did beat every level eventually, "properly", but it was an annoyance.

    I've considered going through all the levels with a level editor, and wherever the enemy Keeper starts out with a ready-made dungeon, simply plonking down a ton of pre-made traps for him, and then use the script to disable the ability to make traps in his workshop, but I'm not sure that would work...

    Interestingly, I never EVER hit this bug in classic Dungeon Keeper, only in Deeper Dungeons: which makes me think that there was something wrong in "deeper.exe" that was okay in "keeper.exe". None of the enemy Keepers, not even the one in the final level Skybird Trill, ever puts multiple traps on one tile (though he did have the illegal pre-placed boulder and lightning traps in his lair).

    So, is there a way to fix this bug while leaving the rest of the Deeper Dungeons game untouched, or is it simply that I hadn't hit it *yet* in Dungeon Keeper because, by and large, the levels are shorter?

    PLEASE DO NOT SUGGEST "KEEPERFX" AS THE ANSWER.
    Last edited by JLE; April 25th, 2014 at 22:40.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Does anyone else think 'Belbata' is too difficult?

    That's not a bug.
    I is scripted that way, and very funny.
    It is one off these things AI Keepers can do, and the human player can not.
    It is like trowing 30 creatures at once in an attack, while the human player can only throw 8 creatures one by one.
    AI can not think out strategies, but is able to cheat, so cheats, as it is scripted to.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Does anyone else think 'Belbata' is too difficult?

    AI Keepers placing traps on room tiles or other traps was indeed a bug, hence why it's fixed.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Does anyone else think 'Belbata' is too difficult?

    And it also was one of the reasons why maps with traps crashed, which is now no longer the case.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Does anyone else think 'Belbata' is too difficult?

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    And it also was one of the reasons why maps with traps crashed, which is now no longer the case.
    Crashing indeed was a bug.
    If that bug was repaired that way, it is very sad that the trap cheating disappeared, but preventing a map to hang is a valuable improvement off the game.

    It is off course not entirely truth.
    The map still crashes when there are to many traps at a certain point, while the AI sometimes places 20 traps on one tile, making it crash just on trap count.

    More traps on one tile is not a bug nerds, it is designed on purpose.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Does anyone else think 'Belbata' is too difficult?

    9 traps fit on a tile in the editor, that's still possible. What never should have happened and has always caused crashes is when traps were constructed on room tiles or multiple on top of each other, which the computer player did. That's no longer the case and the game will never crash anymore because of too many traps or wrong placement.

    The main reason the game crashes/hangs is because pathfinding becomes too complex, especially on maps with water.

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