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Thread: Teleporting behind locked doors

  
  1. #1
    KeeperFX Author mefistotelis's Avatar
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    Default Teleporting behind locked doors

    In original DK, it was "mostly" impossible to teleport behind locked doors.

    Only "mostly" - because:
    - you could possess the creature and teleport to the lair, even if it's inaccessible
    - the creature will still teleport during certain tasks, ie. on payday (there is a pathfinding option used for payday and some other tasks, which allows to trace the path through doors; when door is blocking the creature, it just waits for it to open)
    - this only works on locked doors belonging to you - doors belonging to enemies can be destroyed, so they are always treated as passable.

    Now, I'm thinking about what the rules should be for KeeperFX.
    Would it be better to leave it as it is now, or change the rules?

    I started thinking about it after seeing this issue:
    https://code.google.com/p/keeperfx/issues/detail?id=317

    I'm not sure if teleport should be blocked by locked doors at all. After all, it's teleport - how can a door block it?
    Also, creatures being able to pass locked doors in some cases adds more variety to the game, which is good.

    Btw, it is now sometimes possible to pass locked doors by ghosts, but only in possession, and only if while passing it a player won't touch any wall nor floor/ceiling.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Teleporting behind locked doors

    The only argument for locked doors preventing teleport is for creature control.

    1. It should be possible for vampires to continuously scavenge/train or mistresses to research while being fed/paid by hand. Or it may be to simply delay payment for expensive vampires.

    2. If they can teleport into a locked scavenging room when you don't have the economy to maintain 8 vampires scavenging, it would affect gameplay negatively, especially when you don't have the ability to sell and rebuild a scavenging room.

    3. Fully trained mistresses tend to seek enemy when bored by teleporting over to the enemy. They tend to die if they're outnumbered or because of boulder traps in the enemy base. this needs to be mitigated by placing locked doors on the path to the enemy.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Teleporting behind locked doors

    Assuming that at least point 3 above can be managed with a workaround, vampires teleporting anywhere would indeed make for interesting gameplay.

    If knocked out vampires could teleport out of the prison after csting heal, they would become much more formidable.
    The same goes for mistresses and level 10 imps.

    Definitely interesting but needs to be well thought out and planned.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Teleporting behind locked doors

    Am I the only one that doesn't like Mistresses having teleport?
    Their kit is already overloaded as it is. A ranged DPS with that much mobility, lifesteal AND global teleport? Hella OP.

    Regardless, i'm in favour of the terrain stopping teleport; whether it be lava, locked doors or elevated terrain. Realistically it's a question of control where preventing lends it to the player and allowing lends it to the creature AI.
    The choice should always be with the player.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Teleporting behind locked doors

    Quote Originally Posted by Woudo View Post
    Am I the only one that doesn't like Mistresses having teleport?
    Their kit is already overloaded as it is. A ranged DPS with that much mobility, lifesteal AND global teleport? Hella OP.
    They are OP alright, although teleport doesn't really give them a battle advantage unless they can teleport when flee is enabled.

    You're also right in that it is a matter of weighing the ability to control creatures against giving them an ability that has its benefits and downsides.

    Could use a lot more feedback for such a big change.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Teleporting behind locked doors

    How about all your locked doors block teleportation by your creatures, and enemy magic doors block it, but otherwise functions as usual .

    That's probably a big change though

  7. #7
    Beetle Ecarus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Teleporting behind locked doors

    I like the idea, it makes more sense and makes the game more realistic, BUT like jbthirteen says, it would make the control of creatures a lot more difficult, also, its a bit useless because:

    1.- You creatures will teleport to enemy dungeon, which will be in most cases, an insta-death.
    2.- It would make mistresses and vampires uncontrolable, which, the same when you have more imps than needed, will die.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Teleporting behind locked doors

    I would make the behavior consistent, but the other way around: Make the teleport unable to cross unpassable terrain/doors, including enemy doors, also on payday.

    - On enemy doors, make them appear before the locked door, to destroy it before continuing.

    - Vampires should appear right before the water/lava, then use fly to cross it before teleporting onward.

    - Likewise on possession mode, when teleporting appear closest to the first obstacle, and as a player you can decide to walk through lava or not.

    This way the teleport is not 'rematerialize on another location', but more a 'walk to another location instantaneously', which is how teleporting in media is also often portrayed, like kind of a time-freeze/super speed.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Teleporting behind locked doors

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    - On enemy doors, make them appear before the locked door, to destroy it before continuing.

    - Vampires should appear right before the water/lava, then use fly to cross it before teleporting onward.

    - Likewise on possession mode, when teleporting appear closest to the first obstacle, and as a player you can decide to walk through lava or not.
    This is exactly how it should be if a 'true' teleport isn't feasible. Although I'm unsure if possession mode teleport should be modified since some levels depend on it (I can think of at least one ancient keeper level that requires you to teleport to your dungeon heart that cannot be reached in any other way).

  10. #10

    Default Re: Teleporting behind locked doors

    Quote Originally Posted by jbthirteen View Post
    This is exactly how it should be if a 'true' teleport isn't feasible. Although I'm unsure if possession mode teleport should be modified since some levels depend on it (I can think of at least one ancient keeper level that requires you to teleport to your dungeon heart that cannot be reached in any other way).
    'Keeping everything as it is' is the only valid alternative I can think of. Although I think Ancient Keeper is to be played with 'classic bug mode' on anyway.

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