Originally Posted by
YourMaster
I understand why you're saying that you can do more with DK2, but for me it's basically a lost cause. When I read about your patch I liked all the changes, but playing is I noticed in DK2 it is still no fun to build a dungeon, which is what I like about the games. What DK2 needs is re-balancing and a technical update to allow everybody to play it on their modern machines, but in my opinion also an overhaul of dungeon mechanics and its bud-ugly graphics.
Personally, the combat elements of my patch is enough to keep me playing, but nevertheless I agree with your assessment. I still get frustrated by DK2 usually because of some stupid DK2 mechanic or design choice that I can't change, like creature management and the way everyone just wanders around. The wandering thing could be done if only creatures wandered between rooms instead of just any tile as that causes them to get into trouble or be suddenly killed without you knowing.
Originally Posted by
YourMaster
DK1 on the other hand - even though still lacking somewhat in quality control, it could surely have used a few official patches - mechanics wise is just fine. What it needs, is some good maps. And a better computerplayer AI, luckily some improvements have been made in FX already, but there are still a few simple modifications that would make all the difference.
Does Cave-In not glitch out Creature AI by making them return to their Lair / Dungeon Heart / Spawning point if Hero? Can the Creature AI properly handle being attacked by Invisible Creatures? These are certainly a few things I know that bothered me before.
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Earlier, not too long after my previous post, I found myself rather unwilling to do any of my usual tasks. So I ended up downloading FX and spent like an hour or so looking at stats and such to pass the time and to get a feel for what kind of possibilities could be done.
Anywho, I couldn't help but notice that the Dexterity vs Defense values are still screwed, which is something that should also be fixed. FX uses an outdated version of DragonsLover's patch if I recall, and DL tried to counter the Dexterity glitch by lowering the values of Dexterity. However, he didn't lower the Defense values, causing there to be some severe hit / miss problems. I told him about this issue and I'm certain he changed it, but it's never been changed for FX. I also noticed that the Dexterity increase on growth is 15% while Defense is 20%, despite the former already having a larger base due to what I just mentioned.
Additionally, I think that even if the Defense values are properly lowered, the Hit / Miss values will still be kind of funky due to the way Hit / Miss is calculated. While I haven't looked at the source code so I don't know the true calculations, I made an assumption based on the information given in the Imp config file on what those calculations look like.
So it's probably something like this:
Code:
Hit Chance = (50 + (User Dexterity / 255) - (Enemy Defense / 255))%
50 serves as a base line, so a base 50% chance to hit. Then of course there's the max 88% and minimum 12% chance to hit.
The division of 255 is something I remember from the armor calculations because 8 bit, but I can't remember if it's supposed to be 255 or 256, like whether or not it starts at 0 or 1 in this situation. Details.
Anyways, provided that the hit formula is essentially this, even if you have the Defense values lowered to properly match the Dexterity values, the problem is that there is too little variance between creatures. Due to the fact that their values are so low (every 26 points of difference between Dexterity and Defense is ~10% difference in hit chance), unit hit chances won't stray too far from the base line. Most units will have 40-60% to hit across the board. That's incredibly boring. The variance will only come when a unit outlevels an opponent severely, but then they're already dead so yeah.
My idea to make better and more interesting hit chances to allow for more possibilities for unit strengths / weaknesses is to return the Dexterity / Defense values to their original form but then remove or severely reduce the growth of such values (like 5 for both if they're not removed). This way, you have that variance to better identify some units as being more or less accurate than others (Bile Demons vs Samurai for instance is a major difference). The removal of the growth value is to not only avoid ridiculous hit / miss situations as units level, but to also prevent hitting that 255 cap to retain that difference in values.
This is a bit of a ramble, and maybe I should put it in its own thread for discussion / grab Mefisto's attention better, but it's something that I noticed and felt like mentioning as you referred to simple modifications making larger impact.
Originally Posted by
YourMaster
Like you mention, the campaign maps are too basic, I'd say a handful of levels are doable, and the DD maps are for a large part balanced around reloading your save game as it brings challenge through the unknown(what's behind door number 3, o it's too many heroes).
Remember Dixaroc? Good times... Claiming past the first pool of lava you see, venturing onward. Sort of minding your own business while slaughtering the locals. Then BAM. Samurai Hero Party at your Dungeon Heart. Freaking huge dick move. I liked the level otherwise.
If there is one thing I'd like to see from FX, it's either an increase to the limit of things like IF statements or a removal to it entirely. That's one of the reasons why DK1 maps have to remain relatively simple, and one of the ways that DK2 has it better than Dk1. There's only so much you can do with a map before you suffer from technical limitations, something I've encountered several times before that limited some of my unfinished maps.
For Level 9 in the patched DK2 campaign, I made kind of like a maze of long, extended passages and areas. The Lord of the Land appears after 20 minutes from one of four Hero Gates (random) and he starts to move from point to point around the map to escape through one of five different Hero Gates to transition into the next land. If you claim certain points along his path, he'll try to alter his path or go into panic mode where he spends less time at a stopping point, especially if you attack him.
This level has definitely one of the largest, if not the largest, script to be made for DK2 maps in order to accomplish all this. But my real point lies in the fact that I can do something so crazy with DK2 where I can't do such with DK1. While DK1 doesn't support the same kind of scripting capabilities as DK2, something I don't really blame it for as it is older, the limits in things like IF commands or ADD_TUNNELLER_PARTY_TO_LEVEL certainly don't help the situation either. I think FX should eventually come around to fixing that if it hasn't already and maybe I missed an update.
Originally Posted by
YourMaster
A little while ago I've started making a new_game+ campaign for DK1, dropping all the hints and just a few modifications in each level to make it worthwhile. I think later this year I'll have some time to finish, and who, perhaps afterwards I'll design a map myself - it's not too far off from what I used to do for a living - but that would still be quite the effort since there is no real template of what makes a DK1 map interesting.
Ironically, it's probably easier to make DK2 maps more interesting despite it taking much more effort, creativity, and time. So long as you're willing to put in those elements to the map, you can create whatever you want because you have more advanced tools at your disposal. Hell, the ability to customize terrain, creature, room, etc data and change certain DK2 rules on a map by map basis is quite insane considering all of DK2's other problems.
With DK1, your tools are more simple, so it's hard to make something that really stands out. From my experience, a lot of it is in clever map design since DK1 can't be as script heavy. For that reason alone, I could probably create DK1 maps much faster than DK2 maps.
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Random note. I just suddenly remembered I have an unfinished possession map somewhere where you have this one Thief or something, and you go around into a series of mini dungeons to recruit more creatures. Then you use those members to gain access to other dungeons to recruit more creatures. I think I planned to end it where you have like 10 creatures and have to battle an enemy Keeper after all that. I think it's called Quest or something. Definitely an interesting and creative piece of work. I really liked making possession maps in DK1.
Edit:
My posts are increasing in length quite dramatically!