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Thread: Skybird Trill

  
  1. #1

    Default Skybird Trill

    First all, have to say that this is a really fantastic mod. It made the game much more challenging, almost felt like playing a different game. However on the final level Skybird Trill the only way I could win was by jewing the enemy keeper with possessed heroes and attacking his heart. Because of no bridges, and only being able to capture one avatar, the enemy keeper just had an army of ever replenishing vampires that would not go down. I tried battling him 4 or 5 times, pulling my guys out to regen, but by the time they had regened the enemy keeper already had his vampires respawned and back to the same level. What is the general method used by players?

    1. Trapped all the portals heavily
    2. Killed the avatar (couldn't capture because no bridge)
    3. Captured the respawned avatar and giants, samurais, wizards, pretty much every useful hero
    4. Send horny or the avatar in in to jew a few hits on the enemy heart every now and then
    5. Kill heart, win game

    It didn't really feel like a deserved win.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Skybird Trill

    There has been some discussion about this topic, see for instance this topic: https://keeperklan.com/threads/4612-...ginal-campaign

    Simply put, the KeeperFX developer has decided that he likes a different ending to the campaign then bullfrog did. In the original game, you did not have to kill the blue keeper. On top of that, the AI of keepers has been improved, making it more difficult then it was before to actually kill blue. I don't think the current level works very well, because as you put it, it is pretty much impossible to defeat an army with so many vampires in a straight up battle.

    The easiest way to win now, is to distract the keeper, and take an avatar or reaper to the enemy heart and snipe it.
    If you want to take him down the best way is to do so slow and steady, imprison as many creatures as you can, casting disease is very effective on an army with that many vampires, use traps, etc.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Skybird Trill

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    There has been some discussion about this topic, see for instance this topic: https://keeperklan.com/threads/4612-...ginal-campaign

    Simply put, the KeeperFX developer has decided that he likes a different ending to the campaign then bullfrog did. In the original game, you did not have to kill the blue keeper. On top of that, the AI of keepers has been improved, making it more difficult then it was before to actually kill blue. I don't think the current level works very well, because as you put it, it is pretty much impossible to defeat an army with so many vampires in a straight up battle.

    The easiest way to win now, is to distract the keeper, and take an avatar or reaper to the enemy heart and snipe it.
    If you want to take him down the best way is to do so slow and steady, imprison as many creatures as you can, casting disease is very effective on an army with that many vampires, use traps, etc.
    Ahh okay. So I did take the right approach. I thought I was just abusing the low AI. And I searched skybird trill both on google and here, skipped through the first 3 pages of results and found nothing. Thanks for clearing that up!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Skybird Trill

    Imprisoning will not work because he scavenges them back immediately, I guess it would have helped stop them respawning though. Also aren't vampires immune to disease? The thought crossed my mind but i thought because they were undead they would be immune.

    I think the level would work better (although I do like that he made us utilize possess creature finally) if both avatars could be captures and more giants spawned in to at least give a fair chance of winning a battle.
    Last edited by noelm; October 26th, 2014 at 15:53.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Skybird Trill

    Imprison does work,... as long as you don't convert them. Disease also works on the vampires.

    You can capture the first avatar no problem, just like in the original game. You do this by possessing a dragon and blasting him to your side of the dungeon with WoP, or with the Witch and casting storm.
    However, in the next full release (or the current nightly builds) the first avatar will die always, because that's what the story says: There is just one avatar that has been resurrected. Having an additional avatar doesn't really help much against all those vampires though. Getting more giants also wouldn't be much help.

    The original level worked fine, because you did not have to kill the blue keeper. Also, you got the bridge when you defeated the first avatar, which made it easier to take down blue. If blue is to be defeated, it would be best if you'd have to do it before the final battle with the Avatar, and you have the bridge to help and blue simply not as many vampires.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Skybird Trill

    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster View Post
    Imprison does work,... as long as you don't convert them. Disease also works on the vampires.
    Yeah, that's what I said, it would stop them respawning.
    Quote Originally Posted by YourMaster;48566
    You can capture the first avatar no problem, just like in the original game. You do this by possessing a dragon and blasting him to your side of the dungeon with WoP, or with the Witch and casting storm.
    However, in the next full release (or the current nightly builds) the first avatar will die always, because that's what the story says: There is just one avatar that has been resurrected. Having an additional avatar doesn't really help much against all those vampires though. Getting more giants also wouldn't be much help.

    The original level worked fine, because you did not have to kill the blue keeper. Also, you got the bridge when you defeated the first avatar, which made it easier to take down blue. If blue is to be defeated, it would be best if you'd have to do it before the final battle with the Avatar, and you have the bridge to help and blue simply not as many vampires.[/QUOTE
    I think it would be nice to be able to have a massive final battle because that seemed to be lacking from my experience of the mod, and I think a lot more giants and samurais would allow for that. I never considered that way of capturing the first avatar though, interesting.

    I'm going to try again now, I'll reload my save before the first avatar. I'll try disease and capturing both avatars. Will post afterwards with how it goes. I think it might be possible to beat the vampires.
    Last edited by noelm; October 26th, 2014 at 16:51.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Skybird Trill

    Well, good luck. Most people have always tried with both avatars, and I assure you, even with 2 Avatars, 3 reapers, all Heroes, and all bile demons and dragons you can scavenge, you will still lose a straight up battle.

    To make it easier to get the avatar to your side, simply trow in 5 dragons or so, so you can possess the witch without getting attacked.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Skybird Trill

    Yeah, I just tried and failed miserably. Imprisoning is near to impossible as they never fight on my territory, and although I did get disease off and infected every single creep, it didn't stop him or even slow him. I didn't realize vampires were so tough. I even tried baiting his army down a corridor into a boulder trap and it was a no go.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Skybird Trill

    So you did manage to capture both Avatars?

    But yeah, vampires are by far the most powerful creatures in the game. They don't deal a lot of damage fast, and they will die against wizards for example, but in these numbers basically the only thing that could defeat them is a larger army of vampires.

    That leaves the heart snipe, or a very long game, which will take many hours, trying to lure the occasional vampire.
    Last edited by YourMaster; October 26th, 2014 at 19:59.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Skybird Trill

    In time (use frameskip) blue will run out of gold and his vamps will leave. There are no gems on his side, and with workshops alone he can't sustain such a big vamp army.

    With some clever 1st person play you can also (slowly) kill him by attacking is heart. I know, with the new AI it will drop everything as soon as you hit the heart with a melee attack, but if you keep your distance and use a creature with drain or lightning you can kill the heart without him dropping a single creature.
    Maybe not the nicest way to win, but straight up you're never going to win until he runs out of gold.

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