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Thread: Have Camapaign levels been tested

  
  1. #11
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have Camapaign levels been tested

    Quote Originally Posted by darkkingkongman View Post
    This game does have a lot more to offer that dungeon keeper. You have more options to choose from some of the games mechanics. You can brew potions to improve your morale and perform rituals that can do some bizarre stuff. One of the mechanics on one level I noticed was you could turn a creature into a gold statue and then sell it for gold. Some very interesting spells and rituals. A lot more to choose from than dungeon keeper. The game also has some humorous voiceovers that are quite amusing.
    Yet how good are these features? How well designed are they and how much do they really add to the game? How much variety is there in actuality? DKII had a pretty large selection of units, for example, but in reality many of them were identical to one another and due to very bad balance, many of them become redundant or useless due to a few of them being 'elite'.

    In WftO, the mana system seems to be quite broken, easily allowing for spells to become overpowered while at the same time nullifying the mana cost to pick up and drop. I find traps to be completely irrelevant due to how powerful Lightning and Heal are and how easy it is to cast them with the current mana system.

    And these features aside, what about the core game itself? I don't know about you but I do not fancy suddenly being unable to pick up or save my creature if he's not in my own land, instead being limited to a single cast spell with a 5 second charge time to return them to their own lair. It really is a step backwards from both DK1 and DK2 by encouraging players to never go on the offensive. Explorers must also be terrible in this game, especially with the way Prophecy aka Sight-of-Evil works, and especially with that broken mana system. There also does not seem to be any room efficiency mechanic, at least not one that uses walls, so you don't even need to bother with doorways to get a more efficient dungeon. And that's just silly.

    None of this even matters though if the game feels terrible to play due to the bad control and movement. It really makes combat feel like a huge drag when there's a delay on my clicks, and I have to do a lot of clicking to navigate between menus to cast Lightning then to drop creatures. And while I have Lightning selected, for some reason I can't click rooms or creatures to try and pick them up. I have to manually deselect it which is just unnecessary. There doesn't even appear to be an overview map so it's annoying to try and plan my own dungeon.

    There are a LOT of issues like this from what I'm noticing and they're all over the game from what I've experienced so far, that's what's really worsening the experience for me. I don't want to call it a bad game but it definitely feels very subpar. There's some good elements here and there, like I do like the music and at least the creature voices seem pretty alright (why can't the boss characters sound good?), but they don't do enough to help me get through all the bad.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

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  2. #12

    Default Re: Have Camapaign levels been tested

    I haven't played the full release but I tried the pre-release several times.

    The game felt like it was designed with multiplayer/skirmish at the forefront. I'm surprised it didn't come with built in Twitch.tv functionality like Age of Empires/Mythology EE did.
    There are so many different directions you can take with your dungeon which are at first all very confusing, but the 'meta' is yet to be developed and build-orders haven't been figured out.

    - Map is Angry Volcano
    - I know the safe gold is in this, this, this, and this location. The unsafe gold is this, this, and this position. Special things are here, here and here.
    - My grand strategy is XX/Y/Z lategame creatures, ritual A and spell B with hard timed push.
    - Scout enemy player and see he's building beasts, assume early rush.
    - Invoke C/D/E early game creatures/spells/defenses, trap up this hallway and room hold until lategame.
    - etc etc etc whatever I don't know the game enough to pretend I know how the meta will pan out.

    It's this sort of multiplayer/meta-game/e-peen wagging sort of stuff that the game was designed for. It isn't anything like DK1 or DK2 and I don't think it even tries to be.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Have Camapaign levels been tested

    Quote Originally Posted by Woudo View Post
    I haven't played the full release but I tried the pre-release several times.

    The game felt like it was designed with multiplayer/skirmish at the forefront.
    There are so many different directions you can take with your dungeon which are at first all very confusing, but the 'meta' is yet to be developed and build-orders haven't been figured out.
    It was designed with multiplayer in mind, and different build orders to choose from. Nobody can predict the meta right now, because it needs to be balanced from the ground up. If you noticed the latest balance patch they made huge modifications because as it turned out 12 level 1 creatures starting creatures could easily defeat 6-8 well trained end-game creatures making it pointless to train up.
    This however is something I do not worry about, it is quite easy to increase or decrease the strenght of certain creatures and the people behind the game have been playing DK2 for years so probably they play this game a long time too and they will balance it out as they see fit.
    Problems might arise if some core mechanics don't work out.

  4. #14
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have Camapaign levels been tested

    Even though I backed this, I will play the game in 3-6 months at least. They will fix most bugs by then (hopefully), community will start producing levels (hopefully) and the game will feel more complete (again, hopefully).
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  5. #15

    Default Re: Have Camapaign levels been tested

    has anyone managed to complete mission 10. Quite a challenge.

  6. #16
    Mapmaker Skarok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have Camapaign levels been tested

    Yeah we did it by building a crypt and sacrificing beasts until we had a hundred or so ghouls. Building a huge alchemy lab and spamming Frost Weavers also seems too work quite well.
    There is absoluetly nothing wrong with DK Mobile, whatsoever.

  7. #17
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have Camapaign levels been tested

    By we, Skarok is referring to himself and I. I beat the whole game and had Skarok on skype with screen share. Spoilers: It wasn't worth it.

    There are a lot of things that can be easily exploited to gain an advantage. It's all just artificial difficulty; a massive grind. Just need to wait until you build a mass army of something that can be spammed and it should be easy.

    Don't bother training beyond level 5. Levels are useless for stat increases, it's better to have numbers. Level 5 is only good because certain units have locked abilities at level 5. Necromancer does and it's crazy OP.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

    The Awakening: GM Powers Activate!
    Tesonu is napping!

  8. #18

    Default Re: Have Camapaign levels been tested

    I think we all should give Wtfo a bit of time especially balance wise. I'm quite sad that the game feels very unfished at the moment but I can't blame them for having a lot of troubles. It's their first project, they obviously lack a lot of experience and they even stated in one of their streams that they should have chosen something else and not wfto as their first project.

    Doing a DK inspired game is a BIG task and I' am happy that atleast SOMEONE went ahead and tried to give all the DK fans a game which is inspired by the DK games. For now the game might be not the best experience but I HOPE and I THINK they will be able to make this game a lot better, I like the game even though it's not as good as DK1 & DK2 at the moment but they always listened (from what i've seen) and for sure make the game even better.

    You may now think I'am a butthurt hard WFTO Fan because I'm trying to defend them but doing such a big project is very difficult. Sure it's somewhat sad that they released the game in a somewhat not playable piece, maybe because they needed the money or because easter for extra money or whatever reason but that's not a reason to bash on them... I mean look at Ubisoft or EA, they do this shit almost all the time (AC Unity, Battlefield) and they are a big studio whereas Wfto is new but I'am not mad about thins like this, thats my opinion. I just hope some people give them some time to get their stuff together, criticism is nice so is good feedback maybe you guys want to give them some feedback or maybe not that's up to you.

  9. #19

    Default Re: Have Camapaign levels been tested

    Sure, we're all DK fans here and there is nothing else to do then give them more time. Some people bought the game already, others like me will wait until it is 'finished'.

    And yes, a project like this is difficult, but so far it doesn't seem like they have risen to the challenge at all. And in all fairness, the state of this game at release is far worse than most - if not all - games EA or Ubisoft release. And those companies also receive a lot of flack when they release crap and charge a premium for it.
    Still, I'd happily support a project where an inexperienced team is trying to create a game I would really like and finding problems in the project, but beyond the shoddy results they also exhibited some very shoddy business practices.
    They have always been very 'forthcoming' with information about the project and progress and updates, even long before the kick-starter, but this has always been very misleading. From the very beginning they have been posting messages about what great things were almost finished or how the demo was just around the corner where when it was time to actually show something they had to admin they had nothing and had to 'start over' somehow. This continued up until the final end, with all the updates and messages pre-release stating they were going to make it and their internal builds had progressed more then the public beta and the campaign just couldn't be demoed to not spoil the surprise. Then they launched and many people couldn't complete the campaign due to bugs and many more couldn't enjoy it because of bugs. This is also the answer to darkkingkongmans question: I'm sure they tested the campaign levels. They knew they were shit. They knew a year ago they would never-ever make the release this February/April but they never admitted to it and decided to sell the game first and apologize later. They simply needed to money and had more to gain by hiding the truth.
    Sure the backers knew it would be somewhat unfinished - not this bad - but the general steam audience does not. They have now taken those peoples money and have justified it to themselves that it is OK because they expect they can finish the game to an acceptable standard. I hope for all the people that bought into this that this self-confidence is justified this time.

    That said - I truly believe there is a large team of developers with the best intentions to deliver a great game that have had nothing to do with the shoddy business practices. I'm sure they put in the long hours to try to make a game for a lot of people to enjoy, which is something I really do appreciate. They are not to blame(I think).
    But that does not mean I want to support the people that made the decision to handle it this way, those who lie to and steal from their fans. Who thought they could do something they couldn't and who tried to make money by hiding their failure to the very last moment.

    If in the end they will make it fun, I'll be there to enjoy what they made and compliment them for it. But I will not give them the benefit of the doubt.

  10. #20
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have Camapaign levels been tested

    I would highly recommend everyone to buy it, to support the devs. They all are great people. Even if you are going to wait till it's more stable/polished, buy it.
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