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Thread: DKII Return Suggestions?

  
  1. #1

    Default DKII Return Suggestions?

    They just don't make games like they used to anymore Was looking forward to WFTO and Dungeons 2, but it looks like both failed to make what people of the genre actually wanted: a Dungeon Keeper style game!

    Anyway, I came on here and was amazed at some of the stuff I saw, particularly Skarok's maps (like the Kasabian Campaign) and MGR's patch. However, I know that there are supposedly big improvements between 1.3 and 1.51, and I'm not sure what is the best "base" to work off of for playing stuff. Is it best to just have multiple DKII directories and play each in isolation? I just don't want to miss out on and/or break anything!

    Just trying to figure out how best to enjoy things without the game breaking. I know 1.7+ is farked, which is why I was hoping a good clone-style game would come out. It looks like they'll never be something like DKII again though, so I figure it's time to just play the real deal

  2. #2

    Default Re: DKII Return Suggestions?

    WftO actually is a DK style game. Some people might be disappointed with how it turned out and it still has a lot of bugs and missing gameplay modes, but there's nothing about it that is not heavily DK2 inspired. Have you actually ever played DK1? If not, give DK1 a try, KeeperFX works well on modern machines, and I certainly prefer it over the sequel.

    As for what's the best way to play DK2? Many people will argue different things, but nobody argues for 1.7 or above. 1.3, 1.51, GIM over 1.3/1.51, Unlimited zoom-out are things you will get suggested were people still around.

  3. #3
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: DKII Return Suggestions?

    I really hate WftO after playing and analyzing it but I don't think there's any argument that it isn't a DK experience; it's just a very shallow DK experience with a great deal of disappointment with the amount of missed opportunities.

    As for DK2, 1.51 is arguably the best version but it's not necessarily the best at everything. One of the main attractions to 1.51 is the smarter AI, but 1.3's AI is still pretty good and there are a couple things it does better than 1.51's AI (don't remember which but it either involves dungeon building or attacking, and mostly everything else 1.51 AI is better for). 1.3 might be more stable but I don't actually know, it just feels extremely stable to me. I know that 1.7 is actually quite unstable by comparison. DK2's stability does vary quite a bit though depending on which computer is running it.

    G.I.M. does have a lot of features but it also provides a lot of "balance changes", which really aren't anything in the way of balance but they merely recreate DKII's vanilla imbalance. It uses either 1.51 or 1.7 as a 'base' for the game, depending on what executable you use to run it. I don't have it anymore on my computer it seems so I don't remember which was which but this is mostly important because it defines the AI being used.

    Personally I prefer the 1.3 version over all else. It has everything I want and there are some things in 1.51 that annoy me and mess with my patch's balance a bit. Although not confirmed technically, I am still fairly convinced that 1.3 is the most stable version and that is a big deal for me. I have to buff the hell out of the AI for it to be any threat regardless so the increased performance is really just alternative behavior to me. Although, if there is one thing I am envious of from other versions, it's the Maiden and elite skins from 1.7. The elites are still usable in 1.3 (except the Goblin) but I just like the unique skins, and the Maiden is a big deal for me because it's a whole new unit to expand the gameplay. Plus she's a pretty interesting concept for DKII standards but that's a different story.

    My patch is designed around 1.3 and Skarok's maps use my patch, so if these are the main things you're into, then you should probably get your hands on 1.3.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

    The Awakening: GM Powers Activate!
    Tesonu is napping!

    LOL, WFTO

  4. #4

    Default Re: DKII Return Suggestions?

    I was looking at the patch 1.51 changelog. Are most of those fixes already in your 1.3-based updates/patches? I don't want to break your stuff, but I see some ease of use updates in 1.51. I don't care for elites or extra maps in the higher patches (AI was terrible anyway, so not like one could play them with any challenge).

    Really I just want to play some DKII with a challenge. WFTO is clearly never going to be finished and will chug along like Godus has, broken and never truly delivering.

  5. #5
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: DKII Return Suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by LonelyKeeper View Post
    I was looking at the patch 1.51 changelog. Are most of those fixes already in your 1.3-based updates/patches? I don't want to break your stuff, but I see some ease of use updates in 1.51. I don't care for elites or extra maps in the higher patches (AI was terrible anyway, so not like one could play them with any challenge).
    Hard to say as I don't quite remember a lot of the changes. A good while ago I do remember looking through them and I think there are also some undocumented changes (I know the 1.7's excuse of a change log hardly displays any of the changes at all).

    While I did try to fix DKII's issues where I could, all of my changes are things that can be done in the editor as I change configuration settings and Level Variable settings. So certain hardcoded changes from the 1.51 patch can't really be replicated. That being said, the amount of things I'm capable of doing with what is technically an unfinished / broken editor is quite outstanding in and of itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by LonelyKeeper View Post
    Really I just want to play some DKII with a challenge. WFTO is clearly never going to be finished and will chug along like Godus has, broken and never truly delivering.
    One of the things I did with the patch was recreate the campaign with a lot more difficulty than before, so you'll be getting that either way. DKII was originally designed to be an incredibly easy and casual game, hence such design choices like the Heal and Lightning spell being very powerful and cheap so spammable. My patch does a lot to change the game from this direction, instead aiming to expand the game's features and design it better for higher skilled players.

    I've made it up to Level 14 in the patch, technically, but I don't believe I released anything beyond Level 11. Levels 12-14 were never fully tested and Level 14 had a few technical issues as well. The 3.0 patch includes levels up to 11 (and Levels 12-14 are designed around the 3.0 patch). However, the 3.5 patch released three months after includes a lot of major changes but only includes Levels 1-5. I heavily revised those maps to significantly improve them around the new patch, and levels beyond that haven't been properly adapted yet so I consider them unplayable until I update them.

    That's pretty much where I'm at, but it'll still be a while as I'm following this trend of revising old map designs from scratch where I feel necessary.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
    Forever Hiatus. Probably. Latest Version: 3.5 w/Levels 1-11 Revised.

    The Awakening: GM Powers Activate!
    Tesonu is napping!

    LOL, WFTO

  6. #6

    Default Re: DKII Return Suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Hard to say as I don't quite remember a lot of the changes. A good while ago I do remember looking through them and I think there are also some undocumented changes (I know the 1.7's excuse of a change log hardly displays any of the changes at all).
    Look here for the changelog. It's a big list.

  7. #7
    Your Majesty Hapuga's Avatar
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    Default Re: DKII Return Suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Gear Rex View Post
    Hard to say as I don't quite remember a lot of the changes. A good while ago I do remember looking through them and I think there are also some undocumented changes (I know the 1.7's excuse of a change log hardly displays any of the changes at all).

    While I did try to fix DKII's issues where I could, all of my changes are things that can be done in the editor as I change configuration settings and Level Variable settings. So certain hardcoded changes from the 1.51 patch can't really be replicated. That being said, the amount of things I'm capable of doing with what is technically an unfinished / broken editor is quite outstanding in and of itself.



    One of the things I did with the patch was recreate the campaign with a lot more difficulty than before, so you'll be getting that either way. DKII was originally designed to be an incredibly easy and casual game, hence such design choices like the Heal and Lightning spell being very powerful and cheap so spammable. My patch does a lot to change the game from this direction, instead aiming to expand the game's features and design it better for higher skilled players.

    I've made it up to Level 14 in the patch, technically, but I don't believe I released anything beyond Level 11. Levels 12-14 were never fully tested and Level 14 had a few technical issues as well. The 3.0 patch includes levels up to 11 (and Levels 12-14 are designed around the 3.0 patch). However, the 3.5 patch released three months after includes a lot of major changes but only includes Levels 1-5. I heavily revised those maps to significantly improve them around the new patch, and levels beyond that haven't been properly adapted yet so I consider them unplayable until I update them.

    That's pretty much where I'm at, but it'll still be a while as I'm following this trend of revising old map designs from scratch where I feel necessary.
    Let me know if you need a hand at testing.
    http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/6659/c2warlocki.gif

  8. #8
    OpenKeeper developer
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    Default Re: DKII Return Suggestions?

    Well, just wait for a little longer and you'll probably have your remake. Better yet, join the project Here are some videos on the progress:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/Kaljis83/videos

    Hardest parts are almost already done, the conversion of old formats.

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