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Thread: editing files

  
  1. #1
    Imp
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    Default editing files

    in the rules.cfg you can adjust some of the rules in the game for gold, rooms etc.
    in the rooms sections you'll find this text

    Code:
    ; When the enemy has been broken during torture, it can either reveal
    ; information or change its ownership; this defines the probability
    ; of converting and ending the torture, 0..100
    TortureConvertChance = 33
    
    would it be possible to add: 
    TortureRevealChance = 33
    that way you can define the probability of revealing information.
    Which could be used with the kill_creature script command to kill all remaining creatures in the torture chamber when a specific number of reveals has been made,
    same with the creatures in the prison, when a specific number has been converted.

    In the creature config files you can find if a creature is hurt by lava or not, could lava risisting creatures receive damage from walking on water?

    can doors be placed on the map the same way as traps, meaning a transparent version where your imps drag the traps to and refill them when they are fully used?
    that way imps place new doors when they are destroyed by hero's or rival keepers. (would need new sprites for the doors.)

  2. #2
    KeeperFX Author mefistotelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: editing files

    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin View Post
    in the rules.cfg you can adjust some of the rules in the game for gold, rooms etc.
    in the rooms sections you'll find [..] TortureConvertChance = 33
    would it be possible to add: TortureRevealChance = 33
    And what with the remaining 34%?
    Anyway, I think the comment in CFG file explains exactly how to control the revealing probability.


    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin View Post
    In the creature config files you can find if a creature is hurt by lava or not, could lava risisting creatures receive damage from walking on water?
    Currently there's no such option; I was thinking about creating it by generalizing "HurtByLava" into "HurtBySlab = <slab> <damage>".

    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin View Post
    can doors be placed on the map the same way as traps, meaning a transparent version where your imps drag the traps to and refill them when they are fully used?
    that way imps place new doors when they are destroyed by hero's or rival keepers. (would need new sprites for the doors.)
    There's no such option currently. Doors are actually not sprites, they are solid 3D walls. Implementing such feature would require making half-transparent walls.

  3. #3

    Default Re: editing files

    Quote Originally Posted by mefistotelis View Post
    And what with the remaining 34%?
    Well, kill the creature of course. Right now the torture room and prison are very powerful rooms that are hard to balance maps around. This is because every enemy can become converted(just keep healing) or become a skeleton. It would allow for so much more flexibility if (on a per map basis preferably) the effectiveness of the torture room and prison can be actually reduced. This specific request I have already listed, along with a few others. See here.

    I've made a full topic about it too.

  4. #4
    Beetle Ecarus's Avatar
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    Steam ID: ecarus333

    Default Re: editing files

    I think this should be here, sorry if not.
    Can I mod the game so i can add new creatures? and can i do it only by copying for example the imp.cfg file and changing everything as i want to?

  5. #5

    Default Re: editing files

    It is possible to replace a creature with another creature. What is easy is to have two creatures that look the same but have different stats/skills, this can indeed be done by changing one of the creature configs. What is very hard to do if you're not an artist and a lot of work if you are is to also make the sprites(images for the animations) for the new creature if you for example want to add a cyclops.

    You can't add additional creatures, you're limited to the amount currently ingame.

  6. #6
    Imp
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    Default Re: editing files

    well it is not 34 but 67% that remains. where the values are the default setting is keeperfx.

    ; Chance of a torture victim being converted, 0..100
    TortureConvertChance = 33

    ; Chance of a dying torture victim becoming undead, 0..100
    GhostConvertChance = 100

    ; Chance of a torture victim revealing information, 0..100
    TortureConvertChance = 33

    setting it all to 0 would give no information, no creature and no ghosts, at the moment it is possible to reveal an entire dungeon by torturing just one creature if it can't be converted.
    same can be used for prison rewarding skeletons
    ; Prisoner becoming skeleton chance, 0..100%
    PrisonSkeletonChance = 100

  7. #7

    Default Re: editing files

    I think it would be problematic if you can torture a creature forever and nothing ever happens. Would you not prefer it like I described here?

    Like this:


    This way you can set any possible outcome you want. How many heroes/ghosts/map reveal/failures, but you don't have the player wait indefinitely without him knowing why.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #8
    Imp
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    Default Re: editing files

    it's not that you can torture forever, when his/her health drops to 0 it just dies without revealing, converting or become a ghost.
    your flow would be a good idea, but how would you decide how big the chance is for each path in % ?

  9. #9

    Default Re: editing files

    Yes and you can keep healing the creature to never die. With my flow that is not possible.

    Currently in keeperfx these are the values:
    TortureDeathChance = 0%
    TortureConvertChance = 33%
    TortureGhostChance = 100%

    And similarly

    PrisonSkeletonChance = 100%
    CaptureChance = 100%

    You can fill in these values in the above flow, and see as long as you'll keep the health of the torture victim up, the creature will eventually join you, it is just a question of how much information is revealed until this happens.

    I don't think it is a good idea to change these defaults because that would effect all the maps out there. What would be a good idea is for people making their own campaigns to be able to configure these settings, and better yet also on custom maps be able to configure these settings. How you set them depends on the map, if you get the prison early and are attacked by lots of enemies you need to lower these percentages. The mapmaker should balance it that if you are attacked by a hero party and fight well you become stronger by using the prison/torture room, but if you fight badly you suffer for it and you don't get enough back.
    Also, if there is lots of gold/gems on the map the TortureDeathChance may be higher than it could be on maps with low gold to make sure using the torture room is a valid strategy and has it's uses above skeletons. With a high chance to die in the torture room, the chance of getting a ghost should drop of course.

  10. #10
    Imp C4st1gator's Avatar
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    Default Re: editing files

    I don't think I like the proposed changes. The problem is, that having torture victims/prisoners just die puts players on the mercy of the RNG. This can lead to more frustration than hitting 255 creatures, knowing that you lost a level that depended on Ghosts/Skeletons, because all your torture victims/prisoners died in vain.
    Instead, the mapmaker could use a script, that prevents your forces from going over a certain threshold. That way, there's still enough room to spawn heroes, and keep converted/undead armies in check.

    Another reason why I am doubtful of it is, that it prevents wanton cruelty.
    The actual balance problem isn't that you can heal your victims for infinite screaming, the problem is, that you can bolster your own troops until you cap out at 255.
    It could be possible to set a MAX_CONVERSION(PLAYER,NUMBER_OF_CREATURES), that prevents you from reaching an unreasonable amount of creatures, by disabling any further conversion until your TOTAL_CREATURES fall below the limit.

    Preventing a torture victim from revealing an entire dungeon can be done in a similar manner, capping the possible number of dungeon reveals. You may still extract all the information from a single unlucky creature, but at least you prevented total revelation, if you wanted to keep some surprises for the player.
    Also, there are other ways to scout enemy dungeons: Accelerated, invisible suicide Imps, Ghosts, trolling with Vampires, Armageddon and the Reveal Map special.

    Making it impossible to heal a tortured creature would be pointlessly frustrating, as it takes a creative application of your spells away from the player.
    The appeal of the Torture Chamber that you can break even the Avatar, provided you are patient (and wealthy) enough. Using the Heal Creature spell and chickens means that there is no escape from your hospitality. The good thing about that is, that you, the player stay in control and can choose a Ghost, a Skeleton or use the creature as compost for your new Vampire. Whatever the player decides, at least he gets a consistent result.

    Putting RNG in control just means that 33% of all torture victims become Ghosts, but we can still reach 255 creatures, if we slaughter on average three times as much, so the problem isn't actually solved. I am concerned about maps with spawning enemies here, there will always be another creature to convert, but a hard limit, that can be set by a script would stop the worst case.
    Also, I think it's less frustrating, that way.
    A player will notice, if his creatures won't surpass 50, 60, or 75, but drawing blank after blank after blank in the creature lottery can be infuriating. A simple limit will prevent the need for players to capture, imprison, and torture the random number generator indefinitely, only to get a good result.
    Last edited by C4st1gator; April 16th, 2016 at 22:36. Reason: Words; Typos.

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