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Thread: What's the point of Armor?

  
  1. #1
    Fly Trotim's Avatar
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    Default What's the point of Armor?

    I'm curious. I must be misunderstanding the way the Armor stat works.

    Since the health increase per level is always the same amount (level 1 hp * 0.35), and armor is a damage reduction percentage (from 0 up to 80%)... it is a needlessly complicated way of showing the true health value.

    Creature A: 300 health, 100 armor -> 40% damage reduction = (1/0.6)x effective health -> takes 500 damage to kill
    Creature B: 460 health, 20 armor -> 8% damage reduction = (1/0.92)x effective health -> takes 500 damage to kill

    This does not change at higher levels, e.g. level 10:

    Creature A: 1245 health, 100 armor -> takes 2075 damage to kill
    Creature B: 1909 health, 20 armor -> takes 2075 damage to kill

    I see only 2 functional advantages to having high armor. First, Protect is a tiny bit more powerful on creatures with higher armor:

    Creature A: 1245 health, 100*1.25 armor -> 50% damage reduction = (1/0.5)x effective health -> takes 2490 damage to kill
    Creature B: 1909 health, 20*1.25 armor -> 10% damage reduction = (1/0.90)x effective health -> takes 2305 damage to kill

    Secondly, the imo only noticeable difference - Heal restores more effective health when your armor is higher. A 100 armor Knight's Heal will restore 66% more health than if a 0 armor creature used it.

    Is this how it works? Does armor influence anything else? Do any attacks ignore armor?

    And another thing... the Protect spell grants some resistance to Lightning? How exactly does that work? Only the Keeper power or does it also affect the creature ability and Lightning trap? Couldn't find any details.
    Last edited by Trotim; November 8th, 2015 at 16:30.

  2. #2

    Default Re: What's the point of Armor?

    I believe you are right, and that the heal-spell is key. I don't think there is any more to it.

    A Dragon has high armour, medium health and a heal spell. This means if he faces just one or two creatures he can out heal the damage they do and last forever. However, he cannot tank a large group or very high damage creatures very well because he is dead before he can cast heal again.

    The Bile Demon has high health, low armour and no heal spell. This means that for him it matters a lot less if he faces the creatures all at once or one at a time, especially because his gas attacks can also hurt the entire group.

    Wizards have low armour, low health and heal. This means if they take very little damage they can live forever, for example versus a vampire. But a creature who's fast and does a lot of damage like the hell hound has him killed straight away.

    And the Armour/Protect spell only protects against keeper lightning.
    Last edited by YourMaster; November 8th, 2015 at 20:05.

  3. #3
    Beetle Ecarus's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the point of Armor?

    Does the creature's Protect spell and the keeper's one stack?

  4. #4
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the point of Armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ecarus View Post
    Does the creature's Protect spell and the keeper's one stack?
    No.
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  5. #5
    Fly Trotim's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the point of Armor?

    Well, fair enough, thanks everyone!

    Seems silly to me to have an entire extra stat just to affect Heal effectiveness but I guess that's old game design for ya

  6. #6

    Default Re: What's the point of Armor?

    The stats are the lowpoint of DK1, I don't think they did anything right. In the original game the descriptions were all wrong, they were all bugged beyond believe, they are named differently from what you'd expect and they are indeed just plain silly.
    An armour stat makes a lot more sense in reducing a fixed amount of damage so that a high armour creatures takes less damage from five 10dmg hits than he does from one 50dmg hit.

    I don't think the age of the game is a proper excuse, there are far older games who handle battle stats a lot better. They just had to rush the game out in the end, did not test this properly and gave no post-release support at all. And yes they could have designed it better in the first place, or just take a look at how other games handled this.

  7. #7

    Default Re: What's the point of Armor?

    I don't think they really understood what they wanted to create in the first place. They didn't have a roadmap or an end goal and they certainly didn't intend to make a dungeon-management RTS/Sim.
    I'm sure we can just blame Molyneux's whimsical approach to game design.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMCR9nxXKcw

  8. #8
    Awakening Game Master Metal Gear Rex's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the point of Armor?

    And it's funny because I don't think most people can agree on what Dungeon Keeper is even supposed to be.

    The Vampire had Hailstorm in that video. Obviously they were OP as hell.
    Dungeon Keeper 2 Patch: With More Balance and Pie [Hiatus]
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  9. #9
    Beetle Ecarus's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the point of Armor?

    DK Alpha is so.... weird.

    Do you have a link where i can download it? I wanna test it out.

  10. #10
    KeeperFX Author mefistotelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the point of Armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ecarus View Post
    DK Alpha is so.... weird.

    Do you have a link where i can download it? I wanna test it out.
    We know a few magazines received a copy of the game, but it never made its way to the Internet.

    The previews described a game where you select a team of creatures, then they are spawned on level and you fight with heroes.
    Souls of the dead are collectable, but it's hard to say what is their purpose.

    Within the final game, theres a screen which seem to be used for buying creatures - probably from that version. There are also some gfx files related to old map - it was stylized as sketch on parchment, and little bugs were walking on it.
    We also have woman-voice speeches which come from around that time, but most likely were not included in version sent to mags.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by mefistotelis; November 11th, 2015 at 20:06.

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